Bye, bye mobile Flash, Adobe gives it the axe

[Red Storm]

Most of those you can think of can be fixed via jailbreak... Much the same way as rooting has patches and fixes for certain things on certain phones.

And it's not a win for all mobile devices.

When you look at it from a developer's, or content provider's point of view, this is basically Adobe giving the finger to all of its developers and saying: we don't care anymore. You have as long as you can to migrate your websites and contents to Air before Flash 10 becomes obsolete. And from my experience? That doesn't take longer than 2 years. Flash 9 was obsolete within 1.5 years.

The incentive for having Flash on mobile devices was simply so that they didn't need to go back to the drawing board and write a new native client from the ground up for their websites and contents. In other words, Adobe is forcing everyone to go back to the drawing board and redo everything that they have done for the past decade.

Not bad enough? Many content providers took 4 years... from the day the iPhone was introduced until now, to complete their move to a system that iOS devices could understand and process in-browser. They now have to go back and do that for all other platforms. It's a hell of a lot of work just to display a video. The effort is simply not worth it.

HTML5 is the future? Yeah, it is... when everybody adopts it and follows the same standards. But... they don't.

Let me know when jailbreaking gives me a variety of handset options.

I'm not a developer, so I'm speaking from a standard user perspective. Flash sucks on mobile devices. It's slow, and a battery hog. I always have it disabled by default on my phone. If I end up needing it (as I did once for a map of a campus), it's nice that it's there, but I didn't like to use it. The sooner it was killed off, the sooner we could move to better alternatives. Also I don't think it comes as a shock. It wasn't a question of would Flash die off, but when. The only shock is Adobe admitting it so soon.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Let me know when jailbreaking gives me a variety of handset options.

That's only one issue. Not many, and obviously not a fault of the platform but of the manufacturer.

I'm not a developer, so I'm speaking from a standard user perspective. Flash sucks on mobile devices. It's slow, and a battery hog. I always have it disabled by default on my phone. If I end up needing it (as I did once for a map of a campus), it's nice that it's there, but I didn't like to use it. The sooner it was killed off, the sooner we could move to better alternatives. Also I don't think it comes as a shock. It wasn't a question of would Flash die off, but when. The only shock is Adobe admitting it so soon.

From a user's perspective, it's nice that it's going away, but at the same time, that means your Android device that doesn't fully support HTML5 right now would likely not be able to fully enjoy the HTML5 contents that will come, so you're going to have to buy a new handset just to watch a video clip.

I guess it was the same problem when Flash Player 10 supported 2.1 and 2.2 but not 2.0, and 2.3 ran Flash better, or so... but sincerely, this is as much a problem to users as it is a problem to developers.

Just to clarify, this is not to say that iOS is in a better position than other platforms (even though it is), but that there is a problem with Adobe ditching Flash right now. I guess it has to happen sooner or later, but they should provide a tool that can ease the transition. Or chances are the only way to catch a video clip on Android or WP7 would be to grab a laptop, or go to a dedicated app for each website.

 

[Mopetar]

When you look at it from a developer's, or content provider's point of view, this is basically Adobe giving the finger to all of its developers and saying: we don't care anymore. You have as long as you can to migrate your websites and contents to Air before Flash 10 becomes obsolete. And from my experience? That doesn't take longer than 2 years starting from when a new version is released. Flash 9 was obsolete within 1.5 years.

The incentive for having Flash on mobile devices was simply so that they didn't need to go back to the drawing board and write a new native client from the ground up for their websites and contents. In other words, Adobe is forcing everyone to go back to the drawing board and redo everything that they have done for the past decade.

Not bad enough? Many content providers took 4 years... from the day the iPhone was introduced until now, to complete their move to a system that iOS devices could understand and process in-browser. They now have to go back and do that for all other platforms. It's a hell of a lot of work just to display a video. The effort is simply not worth it.

And that's what they get for buying into a platform that they had no control over. It's the same as building an app for iOS. Apple can pull it at any time. Any developer who has wanted to be free from this reliance on a party they have no control over knows that web apps were the way to go. Those platforms might provide other features or make porting existing efforts easier, but they come with their own set of restrictions.

If developers were too blind to see the writing on the wall when Apple blatantly refused to put Flash on their devices and when Adobe struggled for years to get Flash to run acceptably on smartphones and tablets, that's their own damned fault. If they hadn't wasted the last four years insisting on sticking with Flash, they'd already have a working alternative.

 

[runawayprisoner]

And that's what they get for buying into a platform that they had no control over. It's the same as building an app for iOS. Apple can pull it at any time. Any developer who has wanted to be free from this reliance on a party they have no control over knows that web apps were the way to go. Those platforms might provide other features or make porting existing efforts easier, but they come with their own set of restrictions.

If developers were too blind to see the writing on the wall when Apple blatantly refused to put Flash on their devices and when Adobe struggled for years to get Flash to run acceptably on smartphones and tablets, that's their own damned fault. If they hadn't wasted the last four years insisting on sticking with Flash, they'd already have a working alternative.

On one hand, it is also partially Adobe's fault because it was Adobe who tried to push mobile Flash on developers, not the other way around.

Also Android and platforms such as WebOS and QNX were actively pushing Flash on their devices so the initial outlook was between going with restrictive iOS platform, or going to the other platforms, one of which now has a marketshare many times that of iOS. The decision would have been peer-pressure when you look at it from that point of view.

And "sticking" with Flash is a mild way to put it. Many have known Flash for years. Few actually knew anything about Obj-C, and at that time, HTML5 specs were still in draft. In other words, the past 4 years have been more about whether people could move on, or their old tools were still effective in the fast-paced mobile world.

So basically, without Flash in the picture, there is no easy way to go about providing video contents on other platforms now. That's why I suggested that Adobe should have at least waited until they have perfected HTML5 before making the switch. But judging by that they are laying off some more, I guess they want to cut Flash mobile development short early and focus on other parts.

Hopefully the focus is well-placed, but I see nothing but a bleak future for the web on platforms like WebOS and QNX at this point... Android may persist in some way since Google pushes web standards harder, but... if Google still refuses to play nice with h.264 and MP4, I don't think the future look bright at all. All the while, it creates more work for other people.

Edit: just to clarify, Adobe has made some good effort to integrate Air into mobile platforms, and most Air apps created that way are technically functional, but it's the web side of things that's looking bleak.

 

[3chordcharlie]

This is fantastic! By 2014 Apple will be able to browse most of the internet!

 

[QueBert]

This is fantastic! By 2014 Apple will be able to browse most of the internet!

I browse most of the internet and don't have the Flash plugin installed on my Windows, my OSX or my Android phone. People who claim you need Flash to browse the web confuse me.

 

[Piano Man]

While no one will mourn the death of flash, the truth right now is that HTML5 blows, and needs a lot of serious work. I'm for moving away from flash, but until there is something better, I hope we don't get stuck in a limbo state.

 

[ChronoReverse]

While no one will mourn the death of flash, the truth right now is that HTML5 blows, and needs a lot of serious work. I'm for moving away from flash, but until there is something better, I hope we don't get stuck in a limbo state.

Yeah, it's nice that Flash is going to go away (for mobile devices) but honestly, the current state of HTML5 isn't particularly great either.

 

[theeedude]

HTML5 is still not as good as Flash. But I guess Adobe is banking that down the road it will be good enough. Or maybe it's a short sighted move to temporarily boost earnings with layoffs.

http://blog.games.com/2011/11/03/zynga-html5-games/

You know, because HTML5 is the future of games, and all that jazz. Despite his love for the emergent platform, Bakaus was brutally honest.

"Audio is still broken -- and we need audio to create rich interactive games," Bakaus said. "In addition, there are all kinds of issues with certain devices,: Bakaus said. "For instance, the iPhone can only play one sound at a time." But that's not all: Game makers aren't exactly in love with WebGL, a 3D graphics creation tool compatible with HTML5.

"I have high hopes for WebGL, but if you look at the demo scene today, it reminds me of the Flash demos in the '90s," Bakaus said. "WebGL has another problem, and that problem applies to web developers, because you have to learn a new language, you can't just work with Javascript."

Bakaus then likened HTML5 game creation to a Pain Machine (pictured), an electrified Pong cabinet that shocks anyone that loses a match. But as much disdain Bakaus seems to have for HTML5 in its current state, he still believes it has potential. "What we need are AAA and social game makers to commit to making full scale and beautiful games in HTML5, and not just porting something over," Bakaus said.

"I think we're really getting closer to making HTML5 gaming a reality. I don't think were completely there yet, but we're really close," the designer concluded. And his parent company seems to agree. Just this month, Zynga released three HTML5 games for mobile browsers. With a guy like Bakaus in Zynga's ranks, there's likely more where that came from.

 

[bigrash]

 

[MrX8503]

Flash and HTML5 are two totally different things. With flash you can create more robust applications. You can't do this with HTML5 on its own, you need Javascript and CSS3 to assist it.

However, I prefer HTML5 for web video/audio because it doesn't require any extra scripts or hoops for you to jump through to embed it. It also moves us closer to a web standard.

For example the gist of what you need to embed video/audio is <video></video> or <audio></audio>, thats it! There aren't any external controls (swf for flash) you need to worry about and its provided through the browser. This type of HTML5 implementation benefits mobile devices, so I welcome the death of Flash Mobile.

Once browsers adopt HTML5, we'll look back to why we even had to install a flash plugin in the first place. I believe HTML5, CSS3, with Javascript is going to change the way we look at websites for the better. Its going to have a bigger impact on the web than Flash.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

They need to stop for OSX too, it crashes several times a day for me....

And how can I possibly live without the full web experience on my smartphone, tablet?

Everyone thinks Android, but it killed it for QNX and WebOS too.

Not a good thing for RIM...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2076336&highlight=flash

a lot of the recent issues with OS X and Flash have to do with the 10.7.2 update more than Flash itself. I spent hours on Apple forums yesterday and fixed some 10.7.2 issues that also put an end to flash crashing....

 

[Mopetar]

So basically, without Flash in the picture, there is no easy way to go about providing video contents on other platforms now. That's why I suggested that Adobe should have at least waited until they have perfected HTML5 before making the switch. But judging by that they are laying off some more, I guess they want to cut Flash mobile development short early and focus on other parts.

It's not that hard. Either serve up some raw video, usually h.264 video, or if you're worried about DRM requirements, etc., put it inside of an app. Developers have figured out how to do it for iOS so it's not inherently any more difficult to do it for Android and probably just a little porting work if there's already an iOS solution.

The non-flash stuff was mostly games, which generally didn't work well on touch devices, shitty ad banners that no one will miss, or poorly designed flash navigation pages that can go straight to hell anyways.

If flash developers can't adapt that's their own problem. The world didn't shed many tears for the horsewhip and buggy makers when automobiles were invented so I don't see any reason to lose sleep over some developers that can't be bothered to learn new skills.

 

[poofyhairguy]

This is terrible news. At least Flash, crappy as it was, was a standard. Now content will move to OS-specific apps and half-done HTML 5 sites.

I use Flash on my phone every weekend (firstrowsports.tv). Illegal stations like Icefilms and Justin.tv are starting to push real content providers for more convient access.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I'll caption this: The Flash gets hit with an apple! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Oyeve]

Ok, just shot pepsi out of my nose ya bastard!

 

[ponyo]

You think Adobe is trying to sell itself to Apple?

 

[EightySix Four]

You think Adobe is trying to sell itself to Apple?

That was my first thought...

 

[theeedude]

It's not that hard. Either serve up some raw video, usually h.264 video, or if you're worried about DRM requirements, etc., put it inside of an app. Developers have figured out how to do it for iOS so it's not inherently any more difficult to do it for Android and probably just a little porting work if there's already an iOS solution.

The non-flash stuff was mostly games, which generally didn't work well on touch devices, shitty ad banners that no one will miss, or poorly designed flash navigation pages that can go straight to hell anyways.

If flash developers can't adapt that's their own problem. The world didn't shed many tears for the horsewhip and buggy makers when automobiles were invented so I don't see any reason to lose sleep over some developers that can't be bothered to learn new skills.

I don't think they need to learn new skills. They can use their Flash skills but it will be packaged into an Adobe AIR app instead of Adobe Flash applet. So Flash will still be around on mobile devices, but running in apps, and not directly inside the mobile browser. This is like Java. Just because there aren't many Java applets directly on webpages anymore, does not mean that Java is gone.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

That was my first thought...

Interesting idea. It certainly is possible with their cash on hand.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I browse most of the internet and don't have the Flash plugin installed on my Windows, my OSX or my Android phone. People who claim you need Flash to browse the web confuse me.

Actually, you only need flash to access flash content...

Once there isn't any, there won't be a reason for a flash plugin.

So by the time they release iPhone7 and iPad4 it wont count as a missing feature anymore.

 

[NaOH]

I literally laughed out loud when I saw this announcement last night. I'm not suprised given that most websites have html5 or javascript written versions of their webpages anyways. I haven't missed a beat on my iPad vs my Win7 desktop.

 

[Mopetar]

This is terrible news. At least Flash, crappy as it was, was a standard.

A standard controlled by one company with a history of shoddy design and terrible security.

Icefilms and Justin.tv are starting to push real content providers for more convient access.

I don't know about Icefilms, but Justin.tv has an iOS app and were working on an Android one.

I don't think they need to learn new skills. They can use their Flash skills but it will be packaged into an Adobe AIR app instead of Adobe Flash applet.

Good point.

 

[Pliablemoose]

And RIM says it'll keep Flash current, holy crap, do they put LSD in the water up there?


http://allthingsd.com/20111109/so-now-what-will-ipad-rivals-say-in-their-commercials/

 

[boomhower]

I won't miss it. When I had Android I turned it off immediately and turned it one maybe a couple of time. Really the only thing it was used for is video on the web and 99% of the places I visit just link it to youtube anyways. Of those that don't are major news sights who do HTML5. The other small use is restaurant websites who for whatever reason think absolutely the whole site must be done in flash, again not a big deal. Since going iOS these past few months I haven't missed it at all.