BYE BYE Competition, Hello Nvidia.

[Daemon_UK]

GeForce4 Ti-4600 128mb VIVO DVI TwinView

Heres Why...

Matrox G550 Dual DVI..

With dual-DVI output, both primary and secondary desktops must be set at the same resolution and color depth, and the maximum available resolution is 1280x1024.

If twin view allows different resolutions on each monitor then they have made a feature that matrox cannot do!! :Q:Q:Q:Q

ATi Radeon 8500.

Harware decoding of Mpeg2
Direct X 8.1 Card
PS 1.1 to 1.4

Nvidia will have all these features like the ATI's RADEON 8500.

Its looking increasingly likely that the Geforce 4 Ti, will be the most complete feature set card available.

Umm, me like!

 

[AA0]

problem is the price, if you thought the Ti500 was expensive, just you wait....

comparing anything with a matrox card isn't good, since they haven't made anything in a long time.

 

[Beatles]

<< problem is the price, if you thought the Ti500 was expensive, just you wait....

comparing anything with a matrox card isn't good, since they haven't made anything in a long time. >>


Matrox is working on an EXCEPTIONAL card which will revolutionize the industry...trust me on this.

 

[Daemon_UK]

<< comparing anything with a matrox card isn't good, since they haven't made anything in a long time. >>



A lot of people will be comparing the GF4 to the other cards around, espically on how the features hold up. If Matrox haven't released anything, then thats their fault, and get everything they deserve!



<< Matrox is working on an EXCEPTIONAL card which will revolutionize the industry...trust me on this. >>



Yeah, rumour has it, Matrox will release their new wonder card when Bit Boys will!!

 

[merlocka]

eah, rumour has it, Matrox will release their new wonder card when Bit Boys will!!

But it will have to compete with the S3 Columbia.

 

[Vegito]

But you have to understand, the g550 core is build on the g400 core, not much has changed, while Nvidia went through 3 revisions from TNT2 to GeForce4.

Granted that G550 cost around 100 and a GeForce4 maybe 399

Matrox pull out of the game market for business market, in the video business, thats a 299 off retail but about 200 off street price savings

even ATI cost around 150 more..

The rumor that matrox has a street code name of g800 is possible.. I dont think they like to lose any more market shares..

right now, I have G400 DH and love it.. I have 2 g450 and I think the g400 is still a little better.

2 days ago, I just got 3 Elsa GeForce2 GTS for free to replace my TNT2 Ultra, G400 single head and V3 3000 PCI.. NVidia owns games...
I never own anything past TNT2 Ultra and these GeForces totally owns raw power and I could imagine a Ti 500 or Ti4600 would do...

 

[AA0]

any card that been that long in the making from matrox is outdated. They will not have anything to compete with 3d cards. ATI, IMO, has the best hardware developers right now.

 

[Zeiss]

You guys are forgetting that Matrox's core competency is the business market, particularly the multi-monitor business market. In that' arena, they're doing exceptionally well, beating out the older multi-monitor cards like ColorGraphic and Appian hands down, for both performance (only vaguely important in business) and price (the biggest factor). The Investment Management firm I work in has either a G450 dual or a G200MMS 4-way card in every machine here, pushing 2 or 4 LCDs, and they work GREAT for that purpose.

I think their forray into the game market was more like an experiment that didn't work out, but that's just my .02

 

[Rand]

<<
If twin view allows different resolutions on each monitor then they have made a feature that matrox cannot do!! :Q:Q:Q:Q
>>



FWIW Matrox added that ability in their latest driver release. They've been able to do it under 9X from the start, it was NT under which it wasnt previously useable though it is now. It still leaves them lacking many features that ATi and Matrox offer in the dual monitor implementation.
Can nVidia match Matrox's 2D? No.
Can nVidia match Matrox's MultiMonitor functionality? No, their improving but they still havent even caught up to ATi's HydraVision in implementation and features let alone Matrox's DualHead.
Does nVidia have anything with solid drivers to match the G450eTV? Nope, nVidia's personal Cinema is the closest thing there and it's pretty poor product.
Does nVidia have any products capable of driving 4+ monitors from a single graphics card? Nope, Matrox has the G200 MMS.

Matrox's chief competitor is Appian, not nVidia. Matorx is not after the gaming market, nor the mobile market nVidia is starting to try for.
Frankly I'd say nVidia is not a huge worry for Matrox because nVidia is making litte effort to compete in the business workstation area.
Matrox is still doing quite well in their core market of business workstations, and high end multi-monitor solutions.
They've also got heavy tie-in's with the Military for products and have quite a bit of OEM influence in workstations.

 

[vss1980]

"If twin view allows different resolutions on each monitor then they have made a feature that matrox cannot do!!"

Actually, in that sense, nvidia will have only just caught up to the multi-monitor abilities of.................

wait for it.............

SiS. SiS 315 with its multi-output add-on chip (301) can do different resolutions on each monitor.
Unfortunately it is a value solution so I doubt you will see any dual DVI cards using this chipset.

 

[Leon]

<< Can nVidia match Matrox's 2D? No. >>



Subjective. Many vendors offering excellent 2D, as evidenced by recent articles by Anandtech and others.



<< Can nVidia match Matrox's MultiMonitor functionality? >>



nVidia will offer greatly improved TwinView functionality in GF4 series.



<< Does nVidia have any products capable of driving 4+ monitors from a single graphics card? >>



You will be very surprised with upcoming Elsa offerings



<< Frankly I'd say nVidia is not a huge worry for Matrox because nVidia is making litte effort to compete in the business workstation area.
>>



nVidia/ATI have huge presence in business workstation market. Check out Dell/Gateway boxes. Occasionally you will see Matrox card, that's about all.



<< ATi Radeon 8500.

Harware decoding of Mpeg2 >>



GF4 will support hardware IDCT and IQ.

 

[Rand]

<<

Subjective. Many vendors offering excellent 2D, as evidenced by recent articles by Anandtech and others.
>>



Subjective yes, but the vast majority of people tend to agree the 2D visual quality of the majority of nVidia based graphics boards is rather poor, certainly not up to par with Matrox whom has long been considered to have the best 2D visual quality available.
The best of nVidia boards are only recently beginning to eclipse the old G200 in that respect.




<< nVidia will offer greatly improved TwinView functionality in GF4 series. >>



I certainly hope so because their current capabilities are quite lacking compared to the multi-monitor capabilities of both ATi and Matrox, they've improved with the latest 27.XX series but they still have quite a ways to go.





<<
You will be very surprised with upcoming Elsa offerings
>>



Perhaps, but Elsa's area is consumer graphics and workstation 3D, not multi-monitor business workstations.



<< Frankly I'd say nVidia is not a huge worry for Matrox because nVidia is making litte effort to compete in the business workstation area.
>>





<<
nVidia/ATI have huge presence in business workstation market. Check out Dell/Gateway boxes. Occasionally you will see Matrox card, that's about all. >>



ATi does, nVidia is still lacking outside of the home and workstation 3D rendering areas from OEM boxes. Dell/Compaq/IBM sell a large number of Matrox cards through large corporate orders.
Their conference calls sales figures reflect this fact.
Gateway caters primarily to home consumers, and are hardly the type of OEM Matrox markets to. Most Matrox cards reside in large corporation throughout the world.

 

[Leon]

<< Dell/Compaq/IBM sell a large number of Matrox cards through large corporate orders. >>



First of all, IBM is abandoning PC market

Now let's look at Dell, the world biggest PC maker - the business section.

Precision Workstations

Quadro/Quadro MX default in all models, with FireGL, and Radeon VE being an option. No Matrox cards here.

OptiPlex line

Rage 128/Intel integrated by default in most boxes, with option of MX cards. No Matrox cards, even BTO option.

Dimention Line

Familiar picture again. nVidia only in 8200 / 4400 models, Rage 128 in 4300S model, and integrated Intel in Dimension 2100. No Matrox cards either.

Leon

 

[Rand]

<< Now let's look at Dell, the world biggest PC maker - the business section.

Precision Workstations

Quadro/Quadro MX default in all models, with FireGL, and Radeon VE being an option. No Matrox cards here.
>>



Since when were the FireGL or Quadro marketed towards the 2D business workstations?
Those cards are intended for 3D Modelling, CAD, Mechanical Engineering, etc.
Quite clearly not Matrox's market.


Regarding the Optiplex, Dimension line of systems. How many corporations are there out there that buy stock configurations of such systems in large numbers? Relatively few.
Such systems are generally ordered in groups of 1-10 or 100 system packages to relatively small companies and used for secretarial style work etc.

Go into your local hospital and see how many medical imaging systems use a Matrox solution, go check out an air traffic control centre and tell me how many are using Matrox solutions, or perhaps financial analysts such as per-say U.S. Bancorp Piper Jaffray or Merril Lynch.
Such corporations rarely tend to buy such stock configurations as are routinely sold to small business's.

Matrox has competition, but it's not nVidia. nVidia has little influence or penetration into the markets Matrox has historically resided.
The manufacturers Matrox needs worry about is Appian, and RealVision.... not nVidia/ATi or anyone typically mentioned around here.

 

[AkumaBao]

I'm not making this mistake again. After buying a GF3 when they came out for $400, the Ti's came out about month later. I wonder what they will make after this?

 

[Daemon_UK]

<<

<<
If twin view allows different resolutions on each monitor then they have made a feature that matrox cannot do!! :Q:Q:Q:Q
>>



FWIW Matrox added that ability in their latest driver release. They've been able to do it under 9X from the start, it was NT under which it wasnt previously useable though it is now. It still leaves them lacking many features that ATi and Matrox offer in the dual monitor implementation.
Can nVidia match Matrox's 2D? No.
Can nVidia match Matrox's MultiMonitor functionality? No, their improving but they still havent even caught up to ATi's HydraVision in implementation and features let alone Matrox's DualHead.
Does nVidia have anything with solid drivers to match the G450eTV? Nope, nVidia's personal Cinema is the closest thing there and it's pretty poor product.
Does nVidia have any products capable of driving 4+ monitors from a single graphics card? Nope, Matrox has the G200 MMS.

Matrox's chief competitor is Appian, not nVidia. Matorx is not after the gaming market, nor the mobile market nVidia is starting to try for.
Frankly I'd say nVidia is not a huge worry for Matrox because nVidia is making litte effort to compete in the business workstation area.
Matrox is still doing quite well in their core market of business workstations, and high end multi-monitor solutions.
They've also got heavy tie-in's with the Military for products and have quite a bit of OEM influence in workstations. >>



Rand, so you are telling me, that with Matrox DUAL DVI G550, you can have different resolutions on each monitor? Even though on the web site, is says that it will only work if both screens are set to the same resolution ??

And you are telling me, they have fixed this in the latest driver release??

I am very interested, as I have a Matrox G550 DUAL DVI sitting right infront of me, and just cannot get 1st monitor @ 1280x1024 and the 2nd monitor @ 1024x768.

Please advise!!

 

[Vegito]

Of course dell dont sell matrox cards as much... i can show you all my dell orders.. the second I get them I pull them out and slap in a matrox card... it's cheaper that way, and I sell the more expensive card on ebay. I dont know about the DVI matrox because I dont have them, but they might be limited to the same resolution.. I think the regular analog might be able to use two different resolutions..


BTW what can you expect from a technology thats 3 year old with a different output..

 

[Daemon_UK]

<< Of course dell dont sell matrox cards as much... i can show you all my dell orders.. the second I get them I pull them out and slap in a matrox card... it's cheaper that way, and I sell the more expensive card on ebay. I dont know about the DVI matrox because I dont have them, but they might be limited to the same resolution.. I think the regular analog might be able to use two different resolutions..


BTW what can you expect from a technology thats 3 year old with a different output.. >>



Yes that is correct, with the G550 cards that carry an analogue port and DVI port, they can both do different resolutions on different monitors.

The point I was trying to make, is not whether Nvidia will be better at Matrox at all things, im trying to say it will be better at some things.

The retail market is small, and the enthusiast market is even smaller for Nvidia. But look at the oem market, its huge. Now imagine if an OEM wants.

Good 3D Performace
Good 2D IQ
Good Dual Head Capability
Good Mpeg 2 playback

Before, it was only ATI who could do this, now with the GF4 its Nvidia.

What some of you need to start understanding, the more time it takes for KYRO/Bit Boys/Matrox/S3 to get their wonder card out, Nvidia and Ati will have released several incarnations of their card to make the features more real and available to the public.

Now listen hear sonny

I want Dual Head, cause I have Two Monitors at home. I can go either ATi, or Matrox.
I want Excellent 3D Performance, and have FSAA with good frame rates. So Matrox is out, umm ATi, Nvidia are in.
I want excellent IQ. Ati are in, Nvidia with some cards, there have been problems. But have been solved with the Ti-500.
I want excellent Mpeg2 play back. Umm, again ATi
I want stellar drivers. Ah, well Nvidia is great there.

See, currently ATi wins on the features. However this will all change with the GF4.

 

[Shalmanese]

I would argue that Matox's main competitor would not be appian but would rather be Intel and Via. Many buisnesses are just starting to plain not care about the video card anymore now that it is coming integrated and all set up out of the box. Same thing happened with sound cards. How many businesses use onboard sound these days?

 

[AA0]

The GF4 drivers as of now are really bad, so it isn't too smart to draw conclusions that they will rock. It took a while before the GF3 drivers were good, and remember, nvidia just doesn't have to do performance, they need dual monitor, dvd, and all that other stuff they need to write for. Since the dual head approach is almost certainly totally different then the MX design, its going to be completely new for them, and we all know it takes a while for nvidia to get things working great, they had large problems with the nforce bios, sound drivers and the personal cinema drivers.

 

[AmdInside]

The new drivers aren't bad at all for me. Anyways, just for kicks, thought i'd post this link:



3DLabs Introduces Wildcat III



<< The Wildcat III family debuts with two models: the ultra high-end Wildcat III 6210 and the high-end Wildcat III 6110. The Wildcat III 6210 offers a total of 416 MB of on-board memory -- the first-ever AGP add-in board to offer this capacity. The Wildcat III 6110 offers an impressive 208 MB total on-board memory -- twice the memory of currently available Wildcat II products. >>



Incredible how much memory these cards have, even more system memory than what I currently have in my system. Sucks that they are only DX7 compatible though.

 

[Rand]

<< The new drivers aren't bad at all for me. Anyways, just for kicks, thought i'd post this link:



3DLabs Introduces Wildcat III
>>



Very nice, thanks for the link!
I'll be very interested to hearthe specifications of the WildCat III.


<<
Good 3D Performace
Good 2D IQ
Good Dual Head Capability
Good Mpeg 2 playback
>>


Good 3D Performace-- They had this before, no difference.

Good 2D IQ - This has always been a weakpoint of nVidia. They claimed it would improve with the GF1 intro, then the GF3 intro they said the same.... it's still rather sub-par on most nVidia boards. Why should it be any different now?

Good Dual Head Capability - It's certainly improving, but one feature doesnt magically make up for the large breadth of features nVidia lacks in Multi-Monitor usage that ATi and Matrxo still posess.

Good Mpeg 2 playback - This is a valid benefit. I'll be interested to see if the real world benefits stack up to the paper specs, but at least initially it seems as though nVidia will finally be able to compare to ATi here.

They also still have what is probably the weakest TVOut implementation available, and the drivers are quite poor in that respect... though luckily using TVTool fixes much of that. Still, one would prefer not to have to use third party programs to do what everyone else can do natively.



<<
I want excellent IQ. Ati are in, Nvidia with some cards, there have been problems. But have been solved with the Ti-500. >>


There are still a very large number of GF3 Ti500's with poor 2D image quality. I wouldnt say this has been 'solved' at all. Yes, a handful of manufacturers like Gainward, Elsa, VisionTek are coming very close to ATi's quality, and LeadTek is also reasonably close.... but by and large the majority are still rather disappointing.



<<
I want stellar drivers. Ah, well Nvidia is great there. >>


Well, at least ATi has been making definite improvements here. Their last 4-5 driver revisions have improved dramatically, and in most cases they reasonably solid at this point.
nVidia has always had excellent driver support, and IMHO they still have the best driver support of any of the consumer graphics cards... with all of this NMI parity error/infinite loop error, Personal Cinema's terrible drivers.... it seem's they've been getting lazy of late though, I hope this trend doesnt continue. Because for once they have some very serious driver issues. Their still great, but not as great as they once were.

I've little doubt the GF4 will be an excellent product, but I don't think it will significantly change nVidia's current status in the market.

 

[BFG10K]

Matrox is working on an EXCEPTIONAL card which will revolutionize the industry...trust me on this.

LOL, would the release date concide with Bitboys' release data?

The GF4 drivers as of now are really bad

In what way are they bad? Sure they might have a few glitches but they're completely usable and are certainly not even close to having the level of problems that the initial drivers put out by competitors have.

 

[Link]

Let's face it. All those functions GF4 won't be useful within a couple of years. it's has been like that all along since GF2. If you can get 100+fps on Q2 that's more than enough. For example, ID has demonstrated the next Doom on GF3, but the game isn't still out yet. So if you want to have $$ to WASTE, go ahead, nobody will care.
Meanwhile, it's up to nVidia to make their reference board with better 2D qulaity, Everyday, we increase our resolution and the monitors get bigger. nVidia really needs to improve their RAMDAC and 2D quality only if they really want to dominate graphic card industry.

 

[AA0]

did you read the article? I saw several complaints about the drivers unable to run games at all, many options not even close to being finished, and other issues.