By 2025 cars will need to average 54.5 mpg. How would this be done?

[OutHouse]

It's also a BS attempt by government to give you illusion that they give a crap about environment. If they REALLY cared they would go after Cargo Ships. I think handful of those produce as much emissions as ALL of WORLDS CARS.

so we shoud let LA return to the smog crap hole it was 20 years ago? Should we just let all the regs go away and have acid rain start falling from the skies again? should we let our major sities look like the shit in china?

 

[Vdubchaos]

so we shoud let LA return to the smog crap hole it was 20 years ago? Should we just let all the regs go away and have acid rain start falling from the skies again? should we let our major sities look like the shit in china?

If you think Chinas situation (which US is part to blame) and Cargo ships spewing pollution like crazy will never effect YOU.....you are in for a shock.

 

[JCH13]

Smart people are already working on it: http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/

They're light, uncomfortable, look funny, and smash existing notions of fuel economy.

Taken to a serious extreme: http://students.sae.org/competitions/supermileage/results/2012.pdf
The winner achieved nearly 1,500mpg. Obviously vehicles like SAE SuperMilage cars aren't realistic for every day use, but it shows very clearly what features are important to good fuel economy.

Some cars today can get over 100mpg, if on diesel:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/100-mpg-challenge-revisited-9922.html

 

[TridenT]

Smart people are already working on it: http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/

They're light, uncomfortable, look funny, and smash existing notions of fuel economy.

Taken to a serious extreme: http://students.sae.org/competitions/supermileage/results/2012.pdf
The winner achieved nearly 1,500mpg. Obviously vehicles like SAE SuperMilage cars aren't realistic for every day use, but it shows very clearly what features are important to good fuel economy.

Some cars today can get over 100mpg, if on diesel:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/100-mpg-challenge-revisited-9922.html

The 1,500mpg number was because the fucking car was rolling down a hill or some shit like that. Those numbers are nothing but bullshit.

 

[JCH13]

The 1,500mpg number was because the fucking car was rolling down a hill or some shit like that. Those numbers are nothing but bullshit.

If you actually cared to read the rules of the competition here: http://students.sae.org/competitions/supermileage/rules/rules.pdf

You would know that the cars do their test run around an oval track with a competition-supplied fuel tank. The runs are made a very low speeds (very important in conserving fuel) but include up-hills and down-hills.

~1500mpg is not unprecedented either. In 2011 two teams exceeded the 1500mpg mark, one even exceeded 2100mpg. In 2010 a team exceeded 2300mpg. In 2009 one team exceeded 1800mpg. I could go on...

This is not some bullshit test run by internet bozos once. It is a competition that has been administered by automotive industry leaders for over 30 years. You're just showing your flaming ignorance with posts like that.

 

[Throckmorton]

Plug in hybrids

 

[HeXen]

its more a matter of expense, car gas, repairs, insurance... the jobs we had as teens to easily pay for those things are now filled by middle aged adults. for a teen to get on at a fast food joint its pretty difficult.

i see plenty of teens working fast food and even more driving a car, far nicer and newer aged cars than most at my school had back in the day.

 

[Meghan54]

The 1,500mpg number was because the fucking car was rolling down a hill or some shit like that. Those numbers are nothing but bullshit.

If you actually cared to read the rules of the competition...

You're just showing your flaming ignorance with posts like that.

I was going to say consider the source and how could you expect him to read anything?

Then I read your last statement and just had to laugh because it's so true....Trident makes it his life's work to post meaningless drivel and just struts around like a peacock, taking great delight in displaying his unending and boundless ignorance.

 

[SparkyJJO]

All average sized vehicles could far surpass that with current technology, but they don't because auto manufacturers are in bed with oil tycoons.

I love a good conspiracy theory.

Sadly, that one isn't a good one.

 

[yottabit]

Has no one else noticed how much MPG has jumped like crazy to meet the 2015 portion of the CAFE standard?

I honestly see no real sacrifice and lots of innovation. Ecoboost V6 and other motors, and just plain good motors from Hyundai and Mazda, etc

There's clearly more potential for optimization, as currently the Fiesta gets about the same mileage as the Focus and the Accent gets the same mileage as the Elantra

Part of hitting that number fleet wide will involve selling less trucks or making trucks smaller. IMO this is a good thing because so few people really use a truck for hauling and towing

GASP you might need to live with the F150 and Mustang coming with a BASE 270 HP 270 TQ turbo 4 CYLINDER! THE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!

What I've really yet to see is small gas cars cracking 50 mpg lately, I think that will start happening close to 2025. The only reason this stuff isn't happening now is because the demand is not there for it. I don't think there will be a whole lot of sacrifice involved.

 

[yottabit]

Also, if you buy pretty much any of these current 40 MPG cars (Elantra, Focus, etc) and drive them AT THE SPEED LIMIT they will probably do well over 50 MPG on average

I saw a consumer review on why these cars aren't getting their advertised MPG and it's because at like 75-85 MPH the MPG tanks thanks to physics

They also incidentally showed that all these cars at 55-65 MPH were getting like 53 MPG or so

The secret to getting cars to get 50 MPG at these speeds is going to be 90% aerodynamics.

I think it's funny people even still complain the EPA sticker is unrealistically high, when it was raised from a standard that was low even if you drove the posted speed limit. It's a sad reflection of how everyone speeds and no one is willing to talk about it, like so many other things in our society

I'd need to look up the actual statistic, but I remember reading that from the 70s to 2006 (before the big gas crisis) or so fuel economy reduced something like 10% on average, while horsepower went up over 200% on average

 

[JCH13]

^True story bro.

Every serious supermiler and auto x prize car is designed to minimize aero drag and goes slow to further reduce drag.

Can't say I'd be thrilled at 55mph speed limits on the interstate though... 😉

 

[lupi]

Has no one else noticed how much MPG has jumped like crazy to meet the 2015 portion of the CAFE standard?

I honestly see no real sacrifice and lots of innovation. Ecoboost V6 and other motors, and just plain good motors from Hyundai and Mazda, etc

There's clearly more potential for optimization, as currently the Fiesta gets about the same mileage as the Focus and the Accent gets the same mileage as the Elantra

Part of hitting that number fleet wide will involve selling less trucks or making trucks smaller. IMO this is a good thing because so few people really use a truck for hauling and towing

GASP you might need to live with the F150 and Mustang coming with a BASE 270 HP 270 TQ turbo 4 CYLINDER! THE BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!

What I've really yet to see is small gas cars cracking 50 mpg lately, I think that will start happening close to 2025. The only reason this stuff isn't happening now is because the demand is not there for it. I don't think there will be a whole lot of sacrifice involved.

was listening to a wsj story recently on gas mileage and they said ford was about to start using larger amounts of aluminum of the f150. will raise mpg and cost.

 

[Fenixgoon]

was listening to a wsj story recently on gas mileage and they said ford was about to start using larger amounts of aluminum of the f150. will raise mpg and cost.

and at the end of the life of the car, you can also recycle all of that aluminum and it will actually be worth something.

aluminum is significantly easier to recycle than to mine. it is economical for producers to recycle, and they actually have agreements to buy scrap/chips from customers.

 

[BladeVenom]

so we shoud let LA return to the smog crap hole it was 20 years ago? Should we just let all the regs go away and have acid rain start falling from the skies again? should we let our major sities look like the shit in china?

Smog was solved by catalytic converters. Acid rain is caused by sulfur emissions. Just raising MPG doesn't necessarily improve those things.

I think China's main problem is the dirty coal and dirty power plants, not auto emissions.

Here's a big problem, that environmentalists and politicians don't care about since they don't get to regulate people, coal fires. The coal fires in abandoned coal mines in China alone produce more pollution than all the cars in America.

 

[Throckmorton]

Also, if you buy pretty much any of these current 40 MPG cars (Elantra, Focus, etc) and drive them AT THE SPEED LIMIT they will probably do well over 50 MPG on average

I saw a consumer review on why these cars aren't getting their advertised MPG and it's because at like 75-85 MPH the MPG tanks thanks to physics

They also incidentally showed that all these cars at 55-65 MPH were getting like 53 MPG or so

The secret to getting cars to get 50 MPG at these speeds is going to be 90% aerodynamics.

I think it's funny people even still complain the EPA sticker is unrealistically high, when it was raised from a standard that was low even if you drove the posted speed limit. It's a sad reflection of how everyone speeds and no one is willing to talk about it, like so many other things in our society

I'd need to look up the actual statistic, but I remember reading that from the 70s to 2006 (before the big gas crisis) or so fuel economy reduced something like 10% on average, while horsepower went up over 200% on average

We need to bring back the 55mph speed limit.

 

[LTC8K6]

Also, if you buy pretty much any of these current 40 MPG cars (Elantra, Focus, etc) and drive them AT THE SPEED LIMIT they will probably do well over 50 MPG on average

I saw a consumer review on why these cars aren't getting their advertised MPG and it's because at like 75-85 MPH the MPG tanks thanks to physics

They also incidentally showed that all these cars at 55-65 MPH were getting like 53 MPG or so

The secret to getting cars to get 50 MPG at these speeds is going to be 90% aerodynamics.

I think it's funny people even still complain the EPA sticker is unrealistically high, when it was raised from a standard that was low even if you drove the posted speed limit. It's a sad reflection of how everyone speeds and no one is willing to talk about it, like so many other things in our society

I'd need to look up the actual statistic, but I remember reading that from the 70s to 2006 (before the big gas crisis) or so fuel economy reduced something like 10% on average, while horsepower went up over 200% on average

That chart is far more theoretical than actual:

We applied each car's various constant-speed mpg results -- acquired under near-perfect circumstances at the proving ground

No one drives under those near perfect conditions on a proving ground.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1208_40_mpg_compact_sedan_comparison/viewall.html

 

[1prophet]

Make sure you are able to continually trade them in while still under the warranty, because repairs might not be cost effective on these and most shops won't have the necessary tools or training to perform the repairs.

 

[JCH13]

and at the end of the life of the car, you can also recycle all of that aluminum and it will actually be worth something.

aluminum is significantly easier to recycle than to mine. it is economical for producers to recycle, and they actually have agreements to buy scrap/chips from customers.

Yup, takes around 95% less energy to recycle aluminum than it does to refine it through electrolysis. Plus it doesn't need to be painted or treated to prevent rust, saving further energy and chemical waste.

 

[yottabit]

That chart is far more theoretical than actual:



No one drives under those near perfect conditions on a proving ground.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1208_40_mpg_compact_sedan_comparison/viewall.html

Oh come on, they are much MUCH more real than EPA tests, which are done on a dyno (albeit with the simulated drag of air/road resistance)

They are a best-case scenario. IE if you were in a steady cruise on the highway with no significant average elevation change or strong winds these are the results you should see.

In reality with stopping and going even on the highway you will obviously get considerably lower. But if the steady cruise MPG at 55 MPH is over 50 MPG, I'm sure you can average close to or over 50 MPG on a long road trip. And if it's really a 500 mile road trip with little traffic, the steady cruise MPG will by far be the predominant factor, meaning any variation from it will be minor. For instance I got 42 MPG in my old 1999 Saturn SC2 driving a 440 mile highway trip with no traffic, well over the EPA rated mileage

 

[Anubis]

We need to bring back the 55mph speed limit.

no we dont, it needs to be raised to 75

 

[JCH13]

no we dont, it needs to be raised to 75

No we don't, we need to remove all that pesky air that's been getting in the way.

 

[KentState]

It seems like attacking cars and light trucks is the only solution anyone has. The biggest waste I see is stop and go traffic and lack of public transportation in most large cities. Find a way to remove the congestion and I'm sure overall gas usage will go down more than forcefully raising mileage by 10-20% every 10 years.

 

[TridenT]

No we don't, we need to remove all that pesky air that's been getting in the way.

This. I want an airless world.

 

[BladeVenom]

They just need to make more wind resistant cars. Set a minimum drag coefficient for cars.