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By 2025 cars will need to average 54.5 mpg. How would this be done?

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the future of cars for the masses is diesel-powered, electric drive. a single .5 liter power generator can supply an entire passenger car line and most light trucks. the next generations of production and platforming will make it so cars will be branded and sold by apple, ikea, walmart, amazon and whatever.
 
It's not a stretch. You could do that with today's technology relatively easily. It would just lead to a lot of slow (less displacement; less horsepower), sluggish (taller gearing) cars (less cargo space) that cost significantly more (lightweight, costly materials). Right now the market doesn't demand anything quite that drastic, but if gas were to shoot up 300% of its current price, you might see companies starting to churn out something just like that.

Take a 2012 Ford Fiesta for example. It has a 1.6L I4 rated at 120 HP, and has a curb weight of around 2600 lbs. It currently gets an estimated 29 MPG city and 39 MPG highway. Change out all feasible steel parts for aluminum, fiberglass, carbon fiber, etc. Move to a smaller, less powerful engine, and tune the gearing accordingly. Now we might end up with a car that has a 1.2L I4 rated at 90HP, a curb weight of around 2000 lbs, and fuel economy in the 35-40 MPG city and 50-60 MPG highway range. The biggest difference is that the current Fiesta costs around $15,000 (depending on trim and options), and the new one might cost more like $25,000, or more.

All of those numbers are just speculation, of course, and the car would be dog-slow and expensive for what you get, but if gas prices skyrocketed, people would pay for it.

You can drop the horsepower of a car to below 80HP and still move quite fine. A lot of the reason a lot of the cars get good gas mileage is because they have tall gearing and really low power output. Lowering the weight will help, but changing the engine+transmission is better and cheaper. I doubt the weight will go down much and I doubt they will be putting much more lightweight parts to the car unless they want it to be an aluminum death trap.

These cars can be had now for regular pricing...in Europe.

Besides, supply will be decreasing at the same time.

Diesels are not as clean as gasoline... I don't see how they are helping in that case.

I can see it being possible to average 54.5mpg, but it's going to be hard with all the trucks out there. I don't think there's a single truck that even has a combined mpg of 30.
 
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One of the main reasons this is being passed is because of pollution.

If you care about $ then you should buy very old and used cars. Unless you do 30k+ miles a year and plan to drive a car into the 250k+ range from 0, there is no good reason to buy a new car.

I get that. Except now in 2029 I'll be able to buy a 5year old used car that gets 54mpg.
 
Learn how to drive a manual, my passat 1.8t rated 23mpg combined and I am getting +/-31mpg combine every tank.

Give me a Fiesta and I should get 35mpg+ combined, throw out 300lb, lower it an inch plus free flow catback should get in close to 40mpg combined.
 
Learn how to drive a manual, my passat 1.8t rated 23mpg combined and I am getting +/-31mpg combine every tank.

Give me a Fiesta and I should get 35mpg+ combined, throw out 300lb, lower it an inch plus free flow catback should get in close to 40mpg combined.


I forget, is catback removing the catalytic converter? If so: Illegal and ruining the environment.
 
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You can strip out all the luxuries and I bet you'd get 55MPG easily...

If you don't mind driving a wheeled coffin that is.
 
My 1985 Honda Civic got 50 miles per gallon.

They went backwards on gas mileage to line the pockets of the oil thug industry.

Dave, you might consider the difference in weight, between your 85 Civic and a modern version of that car. Chances are, it weighs more nowadays. Chances are, also, that it's a much safer car nowadays, with the addition (and additional weight) of side door beams, air bags, etc.

It's not always a conspiracy, even though you may think it is. 😉


What's going to be funny, is when people refuse to buy the newer, higher priced vehicles, and hold onto their older vehicles for much longer than they already do. Obama claims he saved the auto industry, but he might be killing them off with these MPG laws. 🙄
 
Factor SUVs into the mix like we used to. The reason the large sedan/wagon disappeared and these stupid SUVs have proliferated as family haulers is because they're "trucks," and fall under different fuel economy standards. That would go a long way to legitimately improving overall fuel economy.
 
Dave, you might consider the difference in weight, between your 85 Civic and a modern version of that car. Chances are, it weighs more nowadays. Chances are, also, that it's a much safer car nowadays, with the addition (and additional weight) of side door beams, air bags, etc.

It's not always a conspiracy, even though you may think it is. 😉


What's going to be funny, is when people refuse to buy the newer, higher priced vehicles, and hold onto their older vehicles for much longer than they already do. Obama claims he saved the auto industry, but he might be killing them off with these MPG laws. 🙄

No, as usual, Dave was just full of shit.
 
My 1985 Honda Civic got 50 miles per gallon.

No, it didn't.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/1232.shtml
http://mpgfacts.com/?did=136&year=1985

1985 HONDA - CIVIC

City MPG: 32
Highway MPG: 38
Combined MPG: 34

No, as usual, Dave was just full of shit.

We know he does exaggerate in most of his post, but 50 mpg (highway) was possible.

1985 HONDA CIVIC COUPE HF ^_^


Full_name
1985 HONDA CIVIC COUPE HF
Year
1985
Make HONDA Model CIVIC COUPE HF
Fuel system 3
Engine Size
91 cubic inches (1.5 litres)
Transmission
Manual Five-Speed
Drive
Front wheel drive
Class
TWO SEATERS
Fuel type Regular Gasoline
Cylinders
4
Engine id
26010
Mileage (city)
49 mpg (4.8 litres/100km)
Mileage (hwy)
54 mpg (4.4 litres/100km)
Mileage (combined) 51 mpg (4.6 litres/100km)
Unadj city mpg
55
Unadj hwy mpg 69
Unadj combined mpg
60
Average annual fuel $368
Overdrive
OD
 
We know he does exaggerate in most of his post, but 50 mpg (highway) was possible.

1985 HONDA CIVIC COUPE HF ^_^


Why didn't you copy/paste the whole thing?


Click to minimize this section Gas Mileage Summary
City 41 mpg (5.7 litres/100km)
Highway 49 mpg (4.8 litres/100km)
Combined 44 mpg (5.3 litres/100km)
These values have been adjusted to reflect the EPA's new 2008 standards for calculating mileage.


Also, let's keep in mind that safety regulations are responsible for a considerable amount of weight added to vehicles in the past thirty years. The same people who cry about fuel efficiency would go ballistic about seeing safety regulations reduced.
 
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Cat back means you are replacing the exhaust from the outlet of the catalytic converter on back. So you keep the cats.

That's what I figured, but I wasn't sure. Needless, replacing your exhaust system after the cat for extra 'flow' is kind of stupid if it's likely to be obnoxiously loud.
 
Dave, you might consider the difference in weight, between your 85 Civic and a modern version of that car. Chances are, it weighs more nowadays. Chances are, also, that it's a much safer car nowadays, with the addition (and additional weight) of side door beams, air bags, etc.

It's not always a conspiracy, even though you may think it is. 😉


What's going to be funny, is when people refuse to buy the newer, higher priced vehicles, and hold onto their older vehicles for much longer than they already do. Obama claims he saved the auto industry, but he might be killing them off with these MPG laws. 🙄

The fine for non-compliance with CAFE standards is only around $500-600 per vehicle. At some point the domestics will just say fuck it and pay the fine like the German manufacturers do. GM and Chrysler's executives may be stupid but they're not suicidal enough to sell only cars which the majority of Americans will refuse to buy.

Of course, if self-driving cars begin to become more widespread then small cars would becomes a practical option for most people.
 
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