Buying stuff from my university question...ive always been curious about this.

[ManBearPig]

Heres a question...my university sells windows stuff (like operating systems and software) to us for really cheap, and apparently we're only supposed to buy them for ourselves. what if i bought win 7 for my brother? would they ever know? i really doubt it, and i think ive even installed it on a few of my own computers over the years, and no ones said anything.

Also, same question about the software...what about if i downloaded ms office...would they ever know?

thanks...just dont wanna get in trouble lol

 

[Anteaus]

I could be wrong, but I think there are basically two requirements to buy student editions. First, that your a student or teacher at the point of sale. Second, that you don't use the software for professional purposes. That's it. I don't believe it stipulates who can use it after the fact. It's not like they take it back after you cease being a student. I think you would be fine buying for your brother, but to be sure you can look up the EULA on microsoft's site.

Note : some software might require an active university email address in order to activate.

 

[Nothinman]

Heres a question...my university sells windows stuff (like operating systems and software) to us for really cheap, and apparently we're only supposed to buy them for ourselves. what if i bought win 7 for my brother? would they ever know? i really doubt it, and i think ive even installed it on a few of my own computers over the years, and no ones said anything.

Also, same question about the software...what about if i downloaded ms office...would they ever know?

thanks...just dont wanna get in trouble lol

I doubt that there's a technical way for them to catch you, but it's a license violation so why not just download a pirated copy and save a few bucks?

 

[Anteaus]

I doubt that there's a technical way for them to catch you, but it's a license violation so why not just download a pirated copy and save a few bucks?

Are you being sarcastic or are you legitimately advocating piracy in this case? We all bend the rules a little bit sometimes, but I'd be hardpressed to believe that blatantly stealing the software is the better option versus at least paying for it and doing a minor license violation.

Maybe you havent, but I'm sure the majority of us that have been computing since DOS have purchased an OEM version of Windows at one time or another without buying a motherboard at the same time, which violates OEM EULA.

There is no right answer here, but at least there is some sort of compesation provided if he buys it. Besides, if he buys it and installs it on his brothers computer and uses it at any point during the life of the install, I'm willing to bet it fulfills the EULA.

 

[Nothinman]

Are you being sarcastic or are you legitimately advocating piracy in this case? We all bend the rules a little bit sometimes, but I'd be hardpressed to believe that blatantly stealing the software is the better option versus at least paying for it and doing a minor license violation.

Maybe you havent, but I'm sure the majority of us that have been computing since DOS have purchased an OEM version of Windows at one time or another without buying a motherboard at the same time, which violates OEM EULA.

There is no right answer here, but at least there is some sort of compesation provided if he buys it. Besides, if he buys it and installs it on his brothers computer and uses it at any point during the life of the install, I'm willing to bet it fulfills the EULA.

I would never advocate piracy, quite the opposite in fact. But violating that license renders it invalid which means he would be using the software illegally anyway. Sure, I used to pirate software all the time back in highschool, but then I grew up. Now I use almost all free and open source software, IMO it's usually better than the closed, commercial alternatives and I like the added freedom I get from it.

There most definitely is a right answer, use the software within the EULA that you're agreeing to or don't use it at all. It's pretty simple. If his school's agreement allows the license to be used by family members then he's fine, but some even become invalid after you're no longer associated with the school.

You're getting a special deal on the license cost because of the special restrictions that come with that license, just like the OEM case, ignoring those special rules is not only a violation of the license but a pretty shitty thing to do.

 

[ManBearPig]

I'll try any find the EULA and post it here to see what's up.

 

[Anteaus]

I would never advocate piracy, quite the opposite in fact. But violating that license renders it invalid which means he would be using the software illegally anyway. Sure, I used to pirate software all the time back in highschool, but then I grew up. Now I use almost all free and open source software, IMO it's usually better than the closed, commercial alternatives and I like the added freedom I get from it.

There most definitely is a right answer, use the software within the EULA that you're agreeing to or don't use it at all. It's pretty simple. If his school's agreement allows the license to be used by family members then he's fine, but some even become invalid after you're no longer associated with the school.

You're getting a special deal on the license cost because of the special restrictions that come with that license, just like the OEM case, ignoring those special rules is not only a violation of the license but a pretty shitty thing to do.

"I doubt that there's a technical way for them to catch you, but it's a license violation so why not just download a pirated copy and save a few bucks? "

I'm pretty sure this specifically advocated piracy. We've had this conversation before so I'll try not to get bogged down. If he buys a legit copy and installs it on a machine that he has access to, then that is a legit use. Worst case, if its interpreted as a misuse of the license, he still compensated the developer for it, therefore it is not piracy. Maybe its unethical, but that's up to MS to decide and press considering that no EULA is 100% valid in any particular state.

If he would have pirated it outright, you might think it is the same thing, however there is now a legitiment monetary debt due to the developer for that license, even if they are unaware of it.

 

[ManBearPig]

Available to Students

A student shall be defined as one who is enrolled in university accredited class(es). This may be established in one of 3 ways:

1. by identifying that the student is currently enrolled via a valid student Identification Card
2. by verifying that the student is enrolled in credit-bearing class(es) through the Office of the Registrar or
3. a student is validated by Continuing Studies as being enrolled in for-credit course(s)

To purchase the software available through this agreement, you must provide:

1. Proof of enrollment
2. Identification that verifies your university ID number



And then there's worldwide universal usage rights from MS.

 

[Anteaus]

Available to Students

A student shall be defined as one who is enrolled in university accredited class(es). This may be established in one of 3 ways:

1. by identifying that the student is currently enrolled via a valid student Identification Card
2. by verifying that the student is enrolled in credit-bearing class(es) through the Office of the Registrar or
3. a student is validated by Continuing Studies as being enrolled in for-credit course(s)

To purchase the software available through this agreement, you must provide:

1. Proof of enrollment
2. Identification that verifies your university ID number



And then there's worldwide universal usage rights from MS.

That's how I understood it when I bought my copy of Win7 from the university. I think all that matters is that you are a student or teacher at the time of purchase in order to get the discount. How you use it after that is subject to normal guidelines. If thats not the case, then millions of people would have to forfeit their licenses after finishing school, which would make no sense lol.

I know from an installation standpoint, there is no difference between it and retail. You just install and activate like normal. I had to prove I was a student at the point of sale only.

 

[Nothinman]

"I doubt that there's a technical way for them to catch you, but it's a license violation so why not just download a pirated copy and save a few bucks? "

I'm pretty sure this specifically advocated piracy. We've had this conversation before so I'll try not to get bogged down. If he buys a legit copy and installs it on a machine that he has access to, then that is a legit use. Worst case, if its interpreted as a misuse of the license, he still compensated the developer for it, therefore it is not piracy. Maybe its unethical, but that's up to MS to decide and press considering that no EULA is 100% valid in any particular state.

If he would have pirated it outright, you might think it is the same thing, however there is now a legitiment monetary debt due to the developer for that license, even if they are unaware of it.

Just because you gave MS or the reseller $1 or more doesn't make it legal...

The license under which it was bought has certain restrictions, you don't get to pick and choose which of them you abide by.

That's how I understood it when I bought my copy of Win7 from the university. I think all that matters is that you are a student or teacher at the time of purchase in order to get the discount. How you use it after that is subject to normal guidelines. If thats not the case, then millions of people would have to forfeit their licenses after finishing school, which would make no sense lol.

Actually it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint. Ideally, once you're no longer a student you can afford a retail license and MS wants you to pay for it. Lots of student discounts are only valid while you're an active student, why should software be any different? I have a vague recollection of at least one school explicitly stating that the license was no longer valid once you left the school, but that was a while ago so things may have changed since then.

 

[paperfist]

Just because you gave MS or the reseller $1 or more doesn't make it legal...

The license under which it was bought has certain restrictions, you don't get to pick and choose which of them you abide by.

Yup. I handle purchasing for a non-profit and it has restrictions as to what happens to the software after you purchase it. For instance you can't transfer or sell the software you acquired as a non-profit to anyone else. You violate the agreement for which you purchased it under if you do.

So if I buy Win7Pro for $45 and take it home I'm a pirate. Which is what Nothinman is saying is if you violate the restriction agreement you're no less a pirate then if you downloaded it from a torrent site.

 

[Anteaus]

Yup. I handle purchasing for a non-profit and it has restrictions as to what happens to the software after you purchase it. For instance you can't transfer or sell the software you acquired as a non-profit to anyone else. You violate the agreement for which you purchased it under if you do.

So if I buy Win7Pro for $45 and take it home I'm a pirate. Which is what Nothinman is saying is if you violate the restriction agreement you're no less a pirate then if you downloaded it from a torrent site.

No EULA allows that. No one technically has the right to transfer software according to almost every EULA in existance, however we know that the EULA can't stand up in court in every sense, because first sale doctrine tends to throw a wrench in the machine. However, your point is taken that it would still be piracy.

In the OPs case, he isn't transferring it. He purchases it through proper channels(legal) and installs it on one machine of his choosing (legal) then everything is up to code. There is nothing that states that the computer the OS is installed on must be in your primary home of resisdence. At that point, his brother owns the computer but he owns the OS license. From a strict interpretation of the EULA as written, I think he completely safe from a legal standpoint. It may not be ethically clean, but thats a personal choice.

 

[Nothinman]

Yup. I handle purchasing for a non-profit and it has restrictions as to what happens to the software after you purchase it. For instance you can't transfer or sell the software you acquired as a non-profit to anyone else. You violate the agreement for which you purchased it under if you do.

So if I buy Win7Pro for $45 and take it home I'm a pirate. Which is what Nothinman is saying is if you violate the restriction agreement you're no less a pirate then if you downloaded it from a torrent site.

Exactly, it's a simple case of abiding by an agreement or not. If you're comfortable lying to your school, MS, etc then that's on you and however you justify it to yourself.

 

[ManBearPig]

Exactly, it's a simple case of abiding by an agreement or not. If you're comfortable lying to your school, MS, etc then that's on you and however you justify it to yourself.

Well this is why I asked, so id know whether or not to get it.

 

[thescreensavers]

I get W7 for free from MSDNAA, my bro used my college email to get the 30 buck deal for his computer

I See nothing wrong with this

 

[paperfist]

No EULA allows that. No one technically has the right to transfer software according to almost every EULA in existance, however we know that the EULA can't stand up in court in every sense, because first sale doctrine tends to throw a wrench in the machine. However, your point is taken that it would still be piracy.

In the OPs case, he isn't transferring it. He purchases it through proper channels(legal) and installs it on one machine of his choosing (legal) then everything is up to code. There is nothing that states that the computer the OS is installed on must be in your primary home of resisdence. At that point, his brother owns the computer but he owns the OS license. From a strict interpretation of the EULA as written, I think he completely safe from a legal standpoint. It may not be ethically clean, but thats a personal choice.

I know student may be a little different, but for non-profit it's this:

"# Organizations that advocate, support, or practice discrimination based on age, ethnicity, gender, national origin, disability, race, size, religion, sexual orientation, or socioeconomic background are not eligible to participate in this program. Organizations must be willing and able to attest that they do not discriminate on any of these grounds in order to receive donations.

# Microsoft products may not be transferred or resold. Additionally, Microsoft products may not be installed on computers that will be given to or sold to other organizations or individuals."

I'm not a lawyer so as much as I personally think EULAs are far reaching I'm just commenting on what it actually says as far as sharing goes. I'm sure M$ isn't going to miss someone's $100, but none the less it's still stealing even if you paid $7 for something that you didn't meet the requirements for.

 

[Anteaus]

I know student may be a little different, but for non-profit it's this:

"# Organizations that advocate, support, or practice discrimination based on age, ethnicity, gender, national origin, disability, race, size, religion, sexual orientation, or socioeconomic background are not eligible to participate in this program. Organizations must be willing and able to attest that they do not discriminate on any of these grounds in order to receive donations.

# Microsoft products may not be transferred or resold. Additionally, Microsoft products may not be installed on computers that will be given to or sold to other organizations or individuals."

I'm not a lawyer so as much as I personally think EULAs are far reaching I'm just commenting on what it actually says as far as sharing goes. I'm sure M$ isn't going to miss someone's $100, but none the less it's still stealing even if you paid $7 for something that you didn't meet the requirements for.

I understand what you mean. I know non-profits tend to have many unique hoops to jump through. I think it's great that you spend your time toward noble causes.

 

[bruceb]

I don't see any issues with him buying it thru his student discount. I also don't see any school disabling the license key after you leave school. They would have to keep track of all buyer and license codes they sell and they aren't likely to do that. As for Microsoft, the software will be bought legitimately and activated legitimately. There is no way for Microsoft or any company to tell WHO is actually using the software after it is installed. As long as it not being used for commercial purposes, you should be fine.

 

[gsaldivar]

"I doubt that there's a technical way for them to catch you, but it's a license violation so why not just download a pirated copy and save a few bucks? "

I'm pretty sure this specifically advocated piracy.

Nope.

Nothinman is trying to get the OP to differentiate between two different things. It's obviously a rhetorical question. Buying software under an educational license intended for non-educational use is essentially the same thing as pirating. Bottom line - you don't have a valid license in either case.

Maybe its unethical, but that's up to MS to decide and press considering that no EULA is 100% valid in any particular state.

You're really splitting hairs here. Educational pricing is not available to the general public. It's that simple. If you lie about being a student to get a price break, you've just committed fraud. Just because there isn't a EULA police doesn't mean you're immune from the law.

 

[bruceb]

He can't lie about being a student as most times, you need either a .edu email address or if you buy it in person at the school, show school id. And mail purchases, most times, require some sort of proof you are currently enrolled in class.

 

[ManBearPig]

He can't lie about being a student as most times, you need either a .edu email address or if you buy it in person at the school, show school id. And mail purchases, most times, require some sort of proof you are currently enrolled in class.

lol, yeah, I never said anything about lying! I am a current student!

 

[gsaldivar]

lol, yeah, I never said anything about lying! I am a current student!

But your brother is not. So, you would be lying on his behalf.

1. The license is not transferable.

2. Your brother is not a student and thus is not eligible for educational license pricing.

How is this hard to understand?

Yes, what you propose is possible, and no you probably won't get caught. But that doesn't make it legal, and bottom line is that the license is made invalid by the two points above.

So... rhetorical question time: Why not just pirate and save a few bucks instead?

 

[Anteaus]

Nope.

You're really splitting hairs here. Educational pricing is not available to the general public. It's that simple. If you lie about being a student to get a price break, you've just committed fraud. Just because there isn't a EULA police doesn't mean you're immune from the law.

The OP is a student who can legally buy Windows with the education discount. He was going to buy one copy, and then install that one copy on his brothers computer. The ethical confusion came from whether or he was violating the EULA by installing it on his brothers machine instead of his own. Since the student version is identical to retail with the exception that he must be a student to purchase it at a lower price point, as outlined by the earlier post by the OP straight from the EULA, then there is no violation.

 

[ManBearPig]

I don't even know how to pirate it lol. Wouldn't it be a giant pain in the ass with constant updates and activation checks, etc? I dunno how people do it.

But your brother is not. So, you would be lying on his behalf.

1. The license is not transferable.

2. Your brother is not a student and thus is not eligible for educational license pricing.

How is this hard to understand?

Yes, what you propose is possible, and no you probably won't get caught. But that doesn't make it legal, and bottom line is that the license is made invalid by the two points above.

So... rhetorical question time: Why not just pirate and save a few bucks instead?

 

[Anteaus]

http://www.microsoft.com/student/en/us/windows/buynow/terms.aspx

That link will clear things up. There is absolutely no other requirements other than proving your a student.