Buying new PC, need some input before I order the PC.

[DakoPhalanx]

Hi, I'm about to buy a new pc soon, I didn't get many replies in the "System Buyers Guide" thread, so I decided to make a new thread. I'm just wondering if these specs are compatible and able to run most applications and games for the next 3 years.

Case: $139 Antec Sonata 17? Black ATX case w380 watt True power supply (8xbays)

Fan: $27 Antec 120mm Smart Cool Case Fan

Motherboard: $165 Asus P4P800-E-Deluxe S478 865PE Chipset 1AGP8x/5PCI/4DDR, w/Sound Gigabit Lan SATA Raid USB 2.0 IEEE1394 ATA-133 Raid

CPU: $305 Intel® Pentium® P4 3.2E ? 800MHz FSB Retail (1MB Cache)

Harddrive: $142 Maxtor 160GB HD 7200rpm 8MB (SATA)

DVD Rom: $36 LiteOn 16x DVD ROM drive

Memory: $218 x2 512MB PC3200 400 Mhz 184pin DDR (Kingston KVR400X64C3/512)

DVD RW: $132 Pioneer DVR-108 internal 16x16 DVD±RW drive (OEM)

Video Card: $319 ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB DDR AGP8x w/S-Video & DVI-I Box

Sound Card: $162 Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Gamer 7.1 Retail Boxed

Subtotal: $1,645
Total: $1,883.53

All prices are in CDN funds, but it is about $1,440 USD

I was also wondering if the power supply that is included with the case sufficient enough to run everything or should I buy a higher watt power supply? I was thinking of this these two: $109 Enermax 470W EG475P-VE P4 Power Supply w/Noise Taker or $135 Antec True480 480Watt ATX12V P4 ATX-Styled Power Supply

If I should switch out the PS that came with the case, should I stick with Antec?


Any suggestions on what to add or take out or change would be appreaciated.

Thanks In Advance.

 

[Wahsapa]

if your planning for the future you'll want to get an athlon 64. you'll also want to invest in a 6800gt.

im not sure but you'll probably run into heating problems using the sonata.

 

[Manzelle]

Looks good but I would drop the 9800 Pro for something more recent...
Also, is it me or is that a lot of $ for that memory...even if that is in CDN dollars...

 

[DakoPhalanx]

Wahsapa: I don't overclock, so would the case still be a problem? Would it have the heating problems you are mentioning?

Manzelle: It's 2 sticks of 512 PC3200 for $218 CDN which is about $166 US.

Can anyone can answer the "heating problems" that I might run into? Any recommendation for another case that will work better with this setup?

Thanks.

 

[zainali]

get an amd athlon 64 setup. if you want to go with a p4 and you are not going to overclock, why not get a dell. they have decent deals sometimes (dont know if that is true about dell canada).

 

[Kasch]

It's always better to build your own, more bang for your buck. If I had to buy prebuilt I'd go Dell though. The 9800 Pro is a great card, again, most bang for your buck. Sure it would be nice to get a new generation card but the difference is a couple hundred dollars. If money is no object than certainly go new gen.

 

[nick1985]

for that price you can get a 6800non-ultra which blows away the 9800pro, and get an athlon64 setup for games.

 

[Wahsapa]

Originally posted by: DakoPhalanx
Wahsapa: I don't overclock, so would the case still be a problem? Would it have the heating problems you are mentioning?

well im not for sure about it, but, its a P4, literally the hotist running processor on the market and the sonata only has one fan. either way you look at it your not going to be running low temps.

 

[Markfw]

You need an Athlon64 to be compatable for 3 years, and to do games well. They are also very cool running compared to that P4E.

 

[DakoPhalanx]

Wahsapa, any recommendation on another case that will run better with this setup?

I'm not going to play Doom 3 or Halflife 2, so would I need the extra power from a GeForce 6800 nu? Or should I wait 2-3 years down the road and upgrade then???

I have never used a AMD based PC before, so I don't know what problems I will run into....Is there a slower Intel P4 CPU that you guys recommend over the P4 3.2GHzE?

Are there any fans or heatsinks that you guys recommend for this setup?

Thanks, any input would be helpful

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: DakoPhalanx
Wahsapa, any recommendation on another case that will run better with this setup?

I'm not going to play Doom 3 or Halflife 2, so would I need the extra power from a GeForce 6800 nu? Or should I wait 2-3 years down the road and upgrade then???

I have never used a AMD based PC before, so I don't know what problems I will run into....Is there a slower Intel P4 CPU that you guys recommend over the P4 3.2GHzE?

Are there any fans or heatsinks that you guys recommend for this setup?

Thanks, any input would be helpful

The 9800Pro is already a couple years old. It is not going to last you for three more years. You wouldn't really run into any problems going with the AMD over the Intel. Unless getting more bang for the buck is a problem.

 

[JoeChicken]

I'm not really sure on cases because I run a Koolance PC2-650 which is essentially an Antec modified for liquid cooling. I don't run strictly fan cooled systems so wouldn't know whats best out there at the moment.

But I did want to say I would strongly discourage you from using a P4 if I could. AMD Athlon 64 (and 64 FX) are simply better in nearly every possible way. However, that is not saying P4s are bad, just not as good. Of course I have always favored AMD and haven't used an Intel in my computer for the past 4 years... never once have I ever had a problem with my AMD, unlike I did with Intel's (lock ups - yes it may have been my cooling wasn't good enough). Keep in mind, just because the P4 says it's 3.2GHz and the AMD says it's 2.5GHz that doesn't really mean anything. You should base decisions off of benchmarks, user reviews and other's opinions (of course it always comes down to what you want). However, most benchmarks, user reviews and opinions I have come across favor the AMD Athlon 64.

And I am sorry but since I use liquid cooled systems I cannot comment on the fans and heatsinks lol. I guess I just made this post to try and steer you away from the dark side of the Intel way.

 

[mechBgon]

If you buy a Pentium4, get the Northwood variant (P4 3.2C), with 512kb L2 cache. They run cooler, are more compatible with motherboards, and more often than not they outperform the Prescott-core models on a MHz-for-MHz basis despite having half the cache, mainly because they also have a shorter pipeline.

Asus's K8N-E Deluxe with an Athlon64 would be worth a look too. That's what I got, although I'm grossly underpowered in the video-card department at the moment (Radeon 9200) Besides 64-bit support down the road, the A64's also support the no-execute feature that nullifies buffer-overflow exploits by worms/viruses at the hardware level, a feature Intel is planning to support later this year (from what I heard) but not yet. Having that immunity against future exploits even before they're recognized by your antivirus software is a perk

If you're buying WindowsXP to go with this, and plan to keep it for quite a while, then WinXP Pro will be supported for longer than XP Home and might be worthwhile just for that reason. It also permits Limited-class accounts (great for kids, wives, visitors) so people can't install spyware, adware or other unwanted junk. There are some other security ideas here for your consideration too

 

[DakoPhalanx]

Thanks for the guide mechBgon, really helpful...

I was just wondering, if I do switch to a AMD 64 CPU, what motherboards do you guys recommend? Besides the Asus's K8N-E Deluxe ? I heard MSI has some good boards.

Is it really worth it to switch to AMD 64 now? Aren't most applications still 32bit? And if it is worth switching to a 64bit CPU should I wait until the Intel CPU's are released?

Also what extra accessories do I need to buy for a AMD based PC? Fans? Heatsinks? I'm a newbie to AMD CPU's.

EDIT: Also what videocard would you recommend for a AMD based PC? Nvidia or ATI? If I stick with the ASUS K8N-E Deluxe board I should go with Nvidia right? Since its a nForce board?

Also can anyone explain what cache is used for?

mechBgon, since you recommend the Northwood variant (P4 3.2C), with 512kb L2 cache for a Intel based PC, would I still run into heating/air flow problems with the Antec Sonata Case?

Once again thanks for the replies.

 

[karlreading]

I really wish people out there would stop thinking that if intel isnt inside then the pc will be unreliable and full of problems.

my main pc has been AMD ever since athlon slot a and ive never had any problems at all, always these systems have been stable, powerfull, cheaper to purchase ( although ive spent the money else ware ) and very very fast.

my server is a p4 2ghz and that crashes way more than this machine ( well twice last year, if u consider that way more ). yes the intel machine is still very good, but for my main pc i will cpontinue to choose AMD for the foreseable future.

Athlon 64 offers incredible performance, and the 64 bit eliment is also a excellent ionvestment, as more focus will be laid upon 64bit computing in the next few years.

If u do get a p4, go for a lga 755 platform then at least youll be able to lay a p4 with EM64T switched on in the future to bring 64-bit capabilitys to your pc when required without having to do a whole system change.
karlos

 

[mechBgon]

The A64 is a good 32-bit processor besides its 64-bit capabilities, or else I don't think it would be very popular. I suggested the K8N-E Deluxe partly because you're planning to use SATA and I believe it will support SATA drives "natively," without needing a driver during Windows installation, or too much other hanky-panky. Personally, I just use 15000rpm SCSI on mine and call it done (WinXP natively recognizes my SCSI cards, no driver floppy required). But no one wants to hear my SCSI-fanboy spiel again :evil:

If you weren't planning on getting SATA then I'd nominate the Asus K8V standard. Have you got any particular reasons for wanting SATA instead of conventional ATA, or is it just something you accepted at face value that since it's the new thing, it must be better?

As for other supporting items, if you buy a retail-boxed Athlon64 then you'll get the heatsink/fan unit included (plus a three-year warranty AND a case sticker :Q), so for simplicity's sake, you could do that. They latch into a receiver frame similarly to how a Pentium4 would latch in (see the P4 setup page of my guide for a sample of that). As for a video card... whatever you prefer. I'm using a Radeon 9200 myself, but if I had the money I'd probably look at those 6800GT's.

I don't think the Sonata is going to literally overheat with a Northwood or even a Prescott, since the CPU sits in a corner right next to a 120mm exhaust fan plus the PSU's own 120mm thermally-regulated fan, but I haven't tried it myself. Just don't put it in an enclosed space where the case can't get fresh air, and if it does warm up, order a quiet-running 120mm intake fan to supplement the ventilation. The PSU is a good-quality one and quality is the name of the game with PSUs. More wattage wouldn't hurt anything, of course With an Athlon64 you can enable the Cool 'n Quiet feature and the CPU will cruise in the 15-30W range when it's lightly loaded, and jump to full throttle when it needs the power.

Pentium4's are known for smooth multitasking (eg heavy video-encoding session running in the background while you're gaming) and that could be a point to consider. Pentium4 = shotgun, Athlon64 = .30-06 rifle

Hope that's some help

 

[karlreading]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
The A64 is a good 32-bit processor besides its 64-bit capabilities, or else I don't think it would be very popular. I suggested the K8N-E Deluxe partly because you're planning to use SATA and I believe it will support SATA drives "natively," without needing a driver during Windows installation, or too much other hanky-panky. Personally, I just use 15000rpm SCSI on mine and call it done (WinXP natively recognizes my SCSI cards, no driver floppy required). But no one wants to hear my SCSI-fanboy spiel again :evil:

If you weren't planning on getting SATA then I'd nominate the Asus K8V standard. Have you got any particular reasons for wanting SATA instead of conventional ATA, or is it just something you accepted at face value that since it's the new thing, it must be better?

As for other supporting items, if you buy a retail-boxed Athlon64 then you'll get the heatsink/fan unit included (plus a three-year warranty AND a case sticker :Q), so for simplicity's sake, you could do that. They latch into a receiver frame similarly to how a Pentium4 would latch in (see the P4 setup page of my guide for a sample of that). As for a video card... whatever you prefer. I'm using a Radeon 9200 myself, but if I had the money I'd probably look at those 6800GT's.

I don't think the Sonata is going to literally overheat with a Northwood or even a Prescott, since the CPU sits in a corner right next to a 120mm exhaust fan plus the PSU's own 120mm thermally-regulated fan, but I haven't tried it myself. Just don't put it in an enclosed space where the case can't get fresh air, and if it does warm up, order a quiet-running 120mm intake fan to supplement the ventilation. The PSU is a good-quality one and quality is the name of the game with PSUs. More wattage wouldn't hurt anything, of course With an Athlon64 you can enable the Cool 'n Quiet feature and the CPU will cruise in the 15-30W range when it's lightly loaded, and jump to full throttle when it needs the power.

Pentium4's are known for smooth multitasking (eg heavy video-encoding session running in the background while you're gaming) and that could be a point to consider. Pentium4 = shotgun, Athlon64 = .30-06 rifle

Hope that's some help

i might be missing the boat here but isnt SATA a feature included as standard on ALL k8 based mobos, i dont recalling seeing one without it, certainly nf3 and k8t800 support sata as standard ( in built to k8t800 southbridgem and in the one chip nf3 chipset )
karlos

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

another vote for amd 64. more value than that 3.2. If you do go intel get the northwood.

I don't know if i'm missing something, but i see 319 for a 9800 pro 128???? I got mine months ago for under 200. Edit*** i just saw canadian

if you want to play at decent resolutions later on i'd look at a 6800 or 6800 gt.
way better performance for most games

 

[mechBgon]

i might be missing the boat here but isnt SATA a feature included as standard on ALL k8 based mobos, i dont recalling seeing one without it, certainly nf3 and k8t800 support sata as standard ( in built to k8t800 southbridgem and in the one chip nf3 chipset )
karlos

I've tried to help people get single SATA drives to be the boot device on Asus's K8V series using the native VIA SATA controller. It appears to be impossible. The controller has RAID on its brain and won't do a single drive, unlike some chipset-native controllers. I've got a cookie for the first person to put out a definitive guide how that goal can be accomplished That's why I swung towards the 250Gb board here.

Also, technically I think there are some AMD64 boards without SATA support, such as nForce3 150 boards.

 

[DakoPhalanx]

Thanks for all the help mechBgon, also for all the replies from others...

Yeah I have a conventional ATA Maxtor 60GB hd on my current PC, but wanted to try the SATA hd's since the technology is available on the board. Is there any reason why I shouldn't go with a SATA hd? Is the speed difference noticeable?

So basically if I don't overclock I shouldn't run into any heating or airflow problems? I'm planning on using the Antec Sonata case and a extra 120mm fan for the front intake.

Is the ATI Radeon 9800 pro sufficient if I don't play FPS games like Doom 3 or Halflife 2? The only game I can think of that might need a really good video card would be Battlefield 2. Or is it better if i just upgrade 2-3 years down the road?

If I do decide to go with Nvidia is the standard GeForce 6800 good enough?


Is the ASUS K8N-E Deluxe better than the MSI K8N Neo Platinum board? Which one would you guys recommend to go with a AMD 64 CPU? Does the videocard I choose factor into this?

Once again, I'm on a budget of around $2,000 CDN which is about $1,520 USD

Thanks in advance for input.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: DakoPhalanx
Thanks for all the help mechBgon, also for all the replies from others...

Yeah I have a conventional ATA Maxtor 60GB hd on my current PC, but wanted to try the SATA hd's since the technology is available on the board. Is there any reason why I shouldn't go with a SATA hd? Is the speed difference noticeable?

So basically if I don't overclock I shouldn't run into any heating or airflow problems? I'm planning on using the Antec Sonata case and a extra 120mm fan for the front intake.

Is the ATI Radeon 9800 pro sufficient if I don't play FPS games like Doom 3 or Halflife 2? The only game I can think of that might need a really good video card would be Battlefield 2. Or is it better if i just upgrade 2-3 years down the road?

If I do decide to go with Nvidia is the standard GeForce 6800 good enough?


Is the ASUS K8N-E Deluxe better than the MSI K8N Neo Platinum board? Which one would you guys recommend to go with a AMD 64 CPU? Does the videocard I choose factor into this?

Once again, I'm on a budget of around $2,000 CDN which is about $1,520 USD

Thanks in advance for input.

At this point, the mechanicals of the hard drives are still the limiting factor, not the interface (PATA versus SATA). In fact, the fastest SATA drive (74GB Western Digital Raptor) is actually a PATA drive with a PATA-to-SATA bridge chip on it. Why they don't offer it with a conventional PATA interface is beyond me.

I do a fair amount of troubleshooting assistance related to motherboards here. SATA can be a real disaster on some boards. Even on boards where it works without too much trouble, what's the point? Fragile, breakable connectors; only one drive per cable; higher cost; no appreciable performance benefit unless you're picking the 74GB Raptor with the very low seek times (which you're not)...

:evil: ~ the Emperor has no clothes!

If a person were running out of drive plugs for conventional ATA drives, or needed really long drive cables (SATA allows up to 1.5m), those could be a couple of good reasons to get going on the SATA bandwagon. Like I said, the suggestion of the nF3 250Gb (or 250 plain) board was partly because I thought it might simplify your SATA experience so I don't have to spend 20-30 posts helping you get your board to boot from SATA when the parts arrive

I am avoiding MSI as a brand altogether. Not that Asus is without their fumbles, but I think MSI might have some quality-control issues floating around. On paper their nF3 250Gb board is teh wonderful, yeah.

As for video cards, buy what you want. The 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro that has the 256-bit memory interface, repeat, 256-bit memory interface and not 128-bit memory interface, is looking like a good value buy. If you can afford twice the money for the 6800 models, go for it if you want to. At high resolutions with heavy eye candy is where it's probably going to really flex its muscle, and I don't know what resolution you're planning to run?

 

[karlreading]

SATA is nice, lovely etc, but in answere to your question, generally the drives themselves cant really max out ATA133 for transfer rates, sata has better bandwidth, but the drives cant really make use of it yet. this is futuher worth noting in the fact that most the sata drives, even, IIRC the raptor 36.5 gig, use bridge chips as the drives r ment for IDE interface. its a bit like AGP and PCI-e, current graphics cards dont exceeed agp 8x for 3d gaming, but the bus has changed in preperation. now when NCQ comes on the scene, we might start seeing some real reason to go SATA if u really want a new drive though, i would definatly buy SATA, its future proofing more than anything, eventially conventinal ide will dissapear off mobos, when that happens, ull be wishing the drive u buy now had been a sata drive.

 

[DakoPhalanx]

Thanks for the advice on ATA vs SATA drives...

EDIT: What is this RAID 0 + 1 configuration I keep on hearing about? Can anyone clear this one up for me?

Yeah I was thinking about switching to a MSI board, but the current PC I have use is running on a ASUS board which isn't bad. Haven't had any problems with it.

The ATI Radeon 9800 Pro I listed is 256bit, so I guess I should be fine right? The only game that is coming out within the next year that I might want is Battlefield 2, I won't be playing FPS games like Doom 3 or Halflife 2 or the RPG Knights of the Old Republic 2. However the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256bit is $319 CDN which is about $242 USD, a Leadtek or MSI GeForce 6800 nu is $409 CDN which is about $310 USD. Is it worth it to upgrade to a 6800 instead of sticking with the 9800 pro?

 

[Schnook121]

If you are ordering off the web, there are many sites that from which you can buy a 9800PRO 128mb 256 bit card for around $200 UShere.
geForce 6800NU's can be had for $270 US .here

Raid 0+1 is (I believe) where you have two drives that are striped, and then mirrored onto two more drives. Its really not necissary for desktop use. RAID 0 (striping) has been shown in an AT article (here) provides a very small and practically unnoticaple performance boost. RAID 1 (mirroring) can be usefull if you never want to lose your data due to a Hard drive crash. If one fails, voila!, the other drive stepps in and no data is lost