Buying a new washer + dryer the geek way: How much difference does spin speed make for water extraction?

[Viper GTS]

The g/f is getting ready to drop $2K+ on a new washer & dryer, she's pretty much decided on the Kenmore Elite series.

The only debate now is the HE3t vs HE4t washer. The 4t has a few more cycle options and a faster spin cycle (1300 RPM vs 1050). The salesperson isn't terribly intelligent & said it would extract 25% more water... Obviously anybody with any physics or math knows that isn't the case. I talked him into loaning me a tape measure & measured the drum diameter as 21.5 inches (identical drums in both).

By my calculations that results in 337 g's vs 516 - A substantial difference (more than 50% higher force).

So the question becomes, is the $120 or so difference in price worth it? The dryer has a moisture sensor so better water extraction (by the washer) should result in shorter dry times & lower energy usage.

Viper GTS

 

[dullard]

As an engineer, I would assume the water extraction would depend on three main factors:
1) RPM,
2) Size of holes in the drum, and
3) Distribution of clothes as the drying spin starts. I would think that a bunch of clothes clumped to one side of the drum (or on the bottom) would be different than clothes all spread out on the entire drum surface).

Then I quickly realize that you didn't provide data for #2 and #3 would be very difficult to measure without testing a lot of loads on a lot of washers. So I give up. Consumer Reports does this measurement. I don't have a copy of it nearby. Maybe someone else here would tell you their conclusions.

However, the engineer in me comes back into the picture. If you are spending $2k on a washer/dryer pair that does no better than a $700 washer/dryer pair, why do you care about a little money saved with the water extraction difference? I can see wanting the shorter drying times...

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: dullard
As an engineer, I would assume the water extraction would depend on three main factors:
1) RPM,
2) Size of holes in the drum, and
3) Distribution of clothes as the drying spin starts. I would think that a bunch of clothes clumped to one side of the drum (or on the bottom) would be different than clothes all spread out on the entire drum surface).

Then I quickly realize that you didn't provide data for #2 and #3 would be very difficult to measure without testing a lot of loads on a lot of washers. So I give up. Consumer Reports does this measurement. I don't have a copy of it nearby. Maybe someone else here would tell you their conclusions.

However, the engineer in me comes back into the picture. If you are spending $2k on a washer/dryer pair that does no better than a $700 washer/dryer pair, why do you care about a little money saved with the water extraction difference?

The drums are identical between the units. They are identical models with the exception of the spin speed and a few extra cycle options (just electronics differences). So the question is the same load in the same drum at 1050 RPM vs 1300 RPM.

As for the $2K vs $700 debate, there are no $700 frontloading washer/dryer sets.

As for the cost savings, it's cost and time. If it knocks 10 minutes per load off dry time & we plan to keep it for 10+ years then it's $120 well spent. And if it saves $120 in electricity over the course of it's life it's a free bonus.

Viper GTS

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: dullard
As an engineer, I would assume the water extraction would depend on three main factors:
1) RPM,
2) Size of holes in the drum, and
3) Distribution of clothes as the drying spin starts. I would think that a bunch of clothes clumped to one side of the drum (or on the bottom) would be different than clothes all spread out on the entire drum surface).

Then I quickly realize that you didn't provide data for #2 and #3 would be very difficult to measure without testing a lot of loads on a lot of washers. So I give up. Consumer Reports does this measurement. I don't have a copy of it nearby. Maybe someone else here would tell you their conclusions.

However, the engineer in me comes back into the picture. If you are spending $2k on a washer/dryer pair that does no better than a $700 washer/dryer pair, why do you care about a little money saved with the water extraction difference?

The drums are identical between the units. They are identical models with the exception of the spin speed and a few extra cycle options (just electronics differences). So the question is the same load in the same drum at 1050 RPM vs 1300 RPM.

As for the $2K vs $700 debate, there are no $700 frontloading washer/dryer sets.

As for the cost savings, it's cost and time. If it knocks 10 minutes per load off dry time & we plan to keep it for 10+ years then it's $120 well spent. And if it saves $120 in electricity over the course of it's life it's a free bonus.

Viper GTS

IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

 

[Chunkee]

BAH!

We just got the whirlpool duet series...high end...they make the kenmore...they are awesome. Make sure you get the HE detergent. Save you money and energy in the long run. We got ours both for 1600 bux, however, we have a friend who works for emerson (they make the motors) and they get a huge discount and there is no charge for colors and they delivered for 25 bux. our washer was 875 and dryer was like 550 or something.

enjoy them...put the cat in there and watch him go round o round

jC

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: dullard
As an engineer, I would assume the water extraction would depend on three main factors:
1) RPM,
2) Size of holes in the drum, and
3) Distribution of clothes as the drying spin starts. I would think that a bunch of clothes clumped to one side of the drum (or on the bottom) would be different than clothes all spread out on the entire drum surface).

Then I quickly realize that you didn't provide data for #2 and #3 would be very difficult to measure without testing a lot of loads on a lot of washers. So I give up. Consumer Reports does this measurement. I don't have a copy of it nearby. Maybe someone else here would tell you their conclusions.

However, the engineer in me comes back into the picture. If you are spending $2k on a washer/dryer pair that does no better than a $700 washer/dryer pair, why do you care about a little money saved with the water extraction difference?

The drums are identical between the units. They are identical models with the exception of the spin speed and a few extra cycle options (just electronics differences). So the question is the same load in the same drum at 1050 RPM vs 1300 RPM.

As for the $2K vs $700 debate, there are no $700 frontloading washer/dryer sets.

As for the cost savings, it's cost and time. If it knocks 10 minutes per load off dry time & we plan to keep it for 10+ years then it's $120 well spent. And if it saves $120 in electricity over the course of it's life it's a free bonus.

Viper GTS

IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Chunkee
BAH!

We just got the whirlpool duet series...high end...they make the kenmore...they are awesome. Make sure you get the HE detergent. Save you money and energy in the long run. We got ours both for 1600 bux, however, we have a friend who works for emerson (they make the motors) and they get a huge discount and there is no charge for colors and they delivered for 25 bux. our washer was 875 and dryer was like 550 or something.

enjoy them...put the cat in there and watch him go round o round

jC

We're 100% set on front loaders, no argument there, & the Duet was our other choice. Ended up deciding on the Kenmore because they're going on sale for 20% off in about two weeks which puts them a couple hundred cheaper than the Duet + we liked the elites better.

As for the cat 500G's would probably kill her. It would be a hell of a video though.

😀

Viper GTS

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: dullard
As an engineer, I would assume the water extraction would depend on three main factors:
1) RPM,
2) Size of holes in the drum, and
3) Distribution of clothes as the drying spin starts. I would think that a bunch of clothes clumped to one side of the drum (or on the bottom) would be different than clothes all spread out on the entire drum surface).

Then I quickly realize that you didn't provide data for #2 and #3 would be very difficult to measure without testing a lot of loads on a lot of washers. So I give up. Consumer Reports does this measurement. I don't have a copy of it nearby. Maybe someone else here would tell you their conclusions.

However, the engineer in me comes back into the picture. If you are spending $2k on a washer/dryer pair that does no better than a $700 washer/dryer pair, why do you care about a little money saved with the water extraction difference?

The drums are identical between the units. They are identical models with the exception of the spin speed and a few extra cycle options (just electronics differences). So the question is the same load in the same drum at 1050 RPM vs 1300 RPM.

As for the $2K vs $700 debate, there are no $700 frontloading washer/dryer sets.

As for the cost savings, it's cost and time. If it knocks 10 minutes per load off dry time & we plan to keep it for 10+ years then it's $120 well spent. And if it saves $120 in electricity over the course of it's life it's a free bonus.

Viper GTS

IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

I agree, front loaders suck.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

I agree, front loaders suck.[/quote]

OK, let's get this out of the way:

1) More efficient
2) Gentler on clothes, yet gets them cleaner
3) Hold more (no agitator wasting space)
4) Many front loaders can be opened mid cycle, in fact in many cases the water level doesn't reach the bottom of the door.

In the words of Consumer Reports:

How to choose a washer

For the best all-around performance, buy a front-loader. If you?re willing to spend $1,000 or so, we?d steer you to a front-loader. The best offer very good washing, gentle action, ample capacity, and quiet operation. (Note that you must use special low-sudsing detergent for the best results.) Front-loaders fill partially with water and spin at high speeds, reducing water use and the energy required for drying--a plus if you have high water and utility costs. Front-loaders have been around awhile, and Frigidaire, GE, Kenmore, and Whirlpool have good reliability records.

Viper GTS

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: So
IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

Actually, front loading washers work a bit better that top loading. Bigger capacity since you can jam them as stuffed as you want, use less water, and use less electricity. Cleaning capability of front loaders is right with the best top loaders.

Unfortunately, you have to use frontloading detergent. So the cost per load is more expensive with frontloaders - even when including the water and electricity savings. Someday, maybe, the detergent price will be lower and the savings will materialize. It is just like hybrid cars and the expensive batteries. The gas savings don't yet match the cost of the batteries.

 

[Kenazo]

We have Kenmore frontloads (not the whirlpool ones but the Frigidaire made ones) and we love them. Frontload washers do take more time to wash than a normal top load though, so you won't be saving any time by going this route, even though your clothes are dryer. The big savings come in reduced water and reduced drying time (that's the expensive part anyway).

We can open ours whenever we want. Ours doesn't have the electric controls though, so I'm not sure how the HE's work.

The higher spin speed does make a difference, at least that's what they told me when I was selling them for Sears two years ago.

 

[Carl Uman]

Our next set will likely be very close to what you have chose 🙂

Just ignore the "front loaders suck" people. They can say with the previous century 😉

On Edit:
Sorry can't help with your question, lol, but I would go with the slower with the thought that maybe the faster one is like a GTS 😉 and just OCed so it may not last as long.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: So
IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

Actually, front loading washers work a bit better that top loading. Bigger capacity since you can jam them as stuffed as you want, use less water, and use less electricity. Cleaning capability of front loaders is right with the best top loaders.

Unfortunately, you have to use frontloading detergent. So the cost per load is more expensive with frontloaders - even when including the water and electricity savings. Someday, maybe, the detergent price will be lower and the savings will materialize. It is just like hybrid cars and the expensive batteries. The gas savings don't yet match the cost of the batteries.

How much is the detergent anyway?

 

[imported_Pablo]

why are front loaders more efficient?

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Pablo
why are front loaders more efficient?

Because they don't have to fill a huge basin.

Viper GTS

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: Siva

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: So
IMO, Frontloading washers are HORRIBLE. Why would you want one? From a practical standpoint, frontloaders can't be opened for any reason mid cycle (no problem with top loaders) and from my experience seem to hold less for the same size machine.

Actually, front loading washers work a bit better that top loading. Bigger capacity since you can jam them as stuffed as you want, use less water, and use less electricity. Cleaning capability of front loaders is right with the best top loaders.

Unfortunately, you have to use frontloading detergent. So the cost per load is more expensive with frontloaders - even when including the water and electricity savings. Someday, maybe, the detergent price will be lower and the savings will materialize. It is just like hybrid cars and the expensive batteries. The gas savings don't yet match the cost of the batteries.

How much is the detergent anyway?

I buy the stuff at SAMS, great schtuff for like 11 bux for same amount of load as the TideHE for 17.

jC

 

[nwfsnake]

We have been using a Kenmore front-loader for 8 years now. Best money I ever spent. We use regular detergent, but only add about 1/3 of what you normally would use for a top loader. Works fine. :thumbsup:

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

fridgidaire Gallery series are substantially less than the LG/Kenmore/Whirpool top of the line models.

Efficiency ratings are similar. Load capacity is probably smaller. Feature set smaller.

We bought a couple of years ago and haven't had any problems.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Pablo
why are front loaders more efficient?

Top-loaders have clothes that pile up high. The clothes on the top would be dry and uncleaned unless water filled the basin (that is why they give you different water volume selections). The more water you use, the more energy you have to consume to heat that water. Plus, the more water you have to dry out (which also takes a lot of energy).

Front-loaders spin the clothes into and out of a small pool of water at the bottom. Thus a little water cleans the whole load. Less water = less energy to heat and less work to dry. Also, front-loaders can spin the water out at high RPMs. Top-loaders wobble and walk if the RPM goes too high, so they are very limited in drying. If your clothes come out of the washer nearly dry, it doesn't take much energy to dry them in the dryer.

Originally posted by: Siva
How much is the detergent anyway?

Varies by brand of course. But typically it is 50%-100% more $$$ per load for the detergent. You need special detergent that can dissolve fully in just a little amount of water.

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
fridgidaire Gallery series are substantially less than the LG/Kenmore/Whirpool top of the line models.

Efficiency ratings are similar. Load capacity is probably smaller. Feature set smaller.

We bought a couple of years ago and haven't had any problems.

Frigidaire Gallery are also sold under the Kenmore name. It's what we have. Love it.

 

[DAM]

I'm going to buy a Frigidaire, after reading around and checking out reviews that seems to be the best bang for the buck.


dam(*e)

 

[radioouman]

$2000 for a washer and dryer *faints*

 

[Eli]

It is common knowledge that front load washers are better than top.

Wish we could afford a set.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
The g/f is getting ready to drop $2K+ on a new washer & dryer, she's pretty much decided on the Kenmore Elite series.

The only debate now is the HE3t vs HE4t washer. The 4t has a few more cycle options and a faster spin cycle (1300 RPM vs 1050). The salesperson isn't terribly intelligent & said it would extract 25% more water... Obviously anybody with any physics or math knows that isn't the case. I talked him into loaning me a tape measure & measured the drum diameter as 21.5 inches (identical drums in both).

By my calculations that results in 337 g's vs 516 - A substantial difference (more than 50% higher force).

So the question becomes, is the $120 or so difference in price worth it? The dryer has a moisture sensor so better water extraction (by the washer) should result in shorter dry times & lower energy usage.

Viper GTS

According to CR, the HE4t is slightly more energy and water efficient than the HE3, but the HE3 is more "gentle" and has a shorter cycle time. Keep in mind that CR does not test any of the special cycle modes or options.

I couldn't find anything regarding differences in spin cycle speed.