Buying a gun: AR-15 or AK47?

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: gregshin
i picked the AK47 for if my life counted on it...granted the AR is cool with all the toys you can put on it. but i firmly believe in less is best. if you can hit something at 200 yards with the AK with iron sights as it was designed to be then the AK is the best choice.

AKs are made exclusively for countries where cleaning weapons isn't emphasized and harsh conditions prevail. They are easy to operate and extremely reliable. In every other aspect of a firearm the AR is superior. Since it's going to be inside a home anyways, it shouldn't be dirty in the first place and you should have no reliability problems. My M16 has fired every time over here and it's been pretty dirty a few times.......

That being said the best weapon for home defense would probably be a 12gauge using 00 buckshot......

that and cost. rebbel/insurgent/revolutionary groups want max guns for the buck, not quality. rounding up villagers and such is easy as long as you hold a gun of any kind pretty much😛

 

[nutcasert]

Make sure to get full metal jacket ammunition that goes through kevlar vests.

 

[DrZDO]

Originally posted by: nutcasert
Make sure to get full metal jacket ammunition that goes through kevlar vests.

Kevlar doesn't usually stop rifle rounds.

 

[amddude]

Get an ar-15. More accurate, more modular, with proper modifications they can fire like...10 calibers of ammo, including 9mm, 45acp, 22lr, 223, 458 socom, 50 beo and more. I HIGHLY recommend you should go to ar15.com forums, they have fantastic info on the ar15 and variants. The manufacturers of some of them even post in the forums. As far as the reliability arguement goes, you could get a piston upper (google "POF USA") which fits on a standard "lower" but is vastly more reliable and requires almost no cleaning. Ak's are ok, but kinda limited--AND if a restriction is placed on 7.69x39 or 5.45xwhatever imporation... big problems. .223 and 5.56 are made a-plenty in the US.

 

[amddude]

OMFG that is hilarious

 

[WHAMPOM]

AK47 The ammo is cheaper. And I think the good rifles are more reliable. The gun nuts have accessories to really jaze it up. For plinking: there are 22. cal AR-15 look-a-likes and cool 22. space age rifles, that would work for you.

 

[amddude]

arfcom! yay!

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: amddude
Get an ar-15. More accurate, more modular, with proper modifications they can fire like...10 calibers of ammo, including 9mm, 45acp, 22lr, 223, 458 socom, 50 beo and more. I HIGHLY recommend you should go to ar15.com forums, they have fantastic info on the ar15 and variants. The manufacturers of some of them even post in the forums. As far as the reliability arguement goes, you could get a piston upper (google "POF USA") which fits on a standard "lower" but is vastly more reliable and requires almost no cleaning. Ak's are ok, but kinda limited--AND if a restriction is placed on 7.69x39 or 5.45xwhatever imporation... big problems. .223 and 5.56 are made a-plenty in the US.

More like 20+ last time we counted. Its pretty much like this.
If the caliber exists in the shooting world, someone has probably made an AR upper for it. Some are readily available, some are one off's someone had made.
The biggest criteria is the magwell size of the AR. If the round is too large to feed through the magwell you either have to use a .308 lower or you have to go with a single shot setup.
A perfect example is the .50 BMG. Obviously a .50 BMG is WAY too big to feed through the magwell of an AR. So you get a .50 BMG upper and its a bolt action.

To give you an idea......Found elsewhere...

.50 BMG
.50AE
.50 Beawulf
.50 SOCOM
.499 LW
.475 Tremor
.458 SOCOM
.440 CorBon Mag
.338 Spectre
.300 RSUM
.30 Whisper
.30 HRT
7.62x39
7x45
7mm Whisper
7mm PPC
7mm TCU
6.8 SPC
6.5 Grendle
6.5 Whisper
6.5PPC
6mm PPC
6x45
5.7x28
.25 WSSM
.243WSSM
5.56/.223
.223 WSSM
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.221 Genghis (aka 5.45x39)
.221 Fireball
.204 Ruger
.20 Tactical
.22LR
.17 Remington
.17 Mach II

10mm
.45 ACP
.44Mag
.44 AutoMag
9mm
.357 Auto
.357 Sig
.357 Magnum
7.62x25

.54 Blackpowder (only one made as far as I know)

 

[ThunderLew]

I'd go with the AR for many of the reasons listed above.

 

[deftron]

Depends if you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfvcker in the room...

If so, AK47 the very best there is ... accept no substitute

 

[potato28]

AR-15. Cheaper ammo and cool factor.

 

[JonnyDuke]

I really wish people would stop recommending that newbies go and violate Federal law by "building their own gun". Sure it's cheaper....and if you are ever caught with that 80% receiver with no serial number and no paperwork from the Feds saying that you can legally manufacture firearms....guess what....you are going to jail. Now you can legally just purchase a lower receiver and build up from there....but unless you are getting VERY good prices on the rest of the parts....you might as well just buy the whole thing as one gun. The shop my friend owns sells a plain vanilla AR for around $800 new.

On topic: Yeah I recommend the AR series over an AK just for the multitude of parts and accessories available for them....there's just sooo many things you can do with them....heck you can even get them in .50 cal http://www.gunblast.com/50Beowulf.htm

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: JonnyDuke
I really wish people would stop recommending that newbies go and violate Federal law by "building their own gun". Sure it's cheaper....and if you are ever caught with that 80% receiver with no serial number and no paperwork from the Feds saying that you can legally manufacture firearms....guess what....you are going to jail. Now you can legally just purchase a lower receiver and build up from there....but unless you are getting VERY good prices on the rest of the parts....you might as well just buy the whole thing as one gun. The shop my friend owns sells a plain vanilla AR for around $800 new.

On topic: Yeah I recommend the AR series over an AK just for the multitude of parts and accessories available for them....there's just sooo many things you can do with them....heck you can even get them in .50 cal http://www.gunblast.com/50Beowulf.htm

Well thats funny, cause I know a few people who have made AK-47's using 80% receivers.
I highly doubt there in violation of the law.

I do agree, it is cheaper and easier to just buy a lower, hell you can get one for 80 bucks or so.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: JonnyDuke
I really wish people would stop recommending that newbies go and violate Federal law by "building their own gun". Sure it's cheaper....and if you are ever caught with that 80% receiver with no serial number and no paperwork from the Feds saying that you can legally manufacture firearms....guess what....you are going to jail. Now you can legally just purchase a lower receiver and build up from there....but unless you are getting VERY good prices on the rest of the parts....you might as well just buy the whole thing as one gun. The shop my friend owns sells a plain vanilla AR for around $800 new.

On topic: Yeah I recommend the AR series over an AK just for the multitude of parts and accessories available for them....there's just sooo many things you can do with them....heck you can even get them in .50 cal http://www.gunblast.com/50Beowulf.htm

Well thats funny, cause I know a few people who have made AK-47's using 80% receivers.
I highly doubt there in violation of the law.

I do agree, it is cheaper and easier to just buy a lower, hell you can get one for 80 bucks or so.

It is not illegal to complete a 80% receiver into a gun provided you have the required US parts count and don't intend to sell it.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: K1052

It is not illegal to complete a 80% receiver into a gun provided you have the required US parts count and don't intend to sell it.

Intend my butt.
You sell, you to go jail!

You dont even THINK of selling it.
Make it, shoot it, be happy you have an unregistered gun. 😀

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Depends on who this is for. I wouldn't want my younger son firing an AK47 until he was at least 12 but an AR-15 I'd consider giving to him at a slightly younger age. If the gun is just for you, I think you'll find more enjoyment with an AR-15 recreationally. But if you are getting this gun for home defense, the reliability and power of an AK47 will be your best bet.

Neither is good for home defense. The best weapon for home defense is a sawed-off shotgun. Wider scatter than a normal barrel, less likely to punch through a wall and kill a loved one, shorter barrel so harder for an attacker to grab successfully, and long and heavy enough to use as a club.

 

[JonnyDuke]

Hey Specop.....my apologies.....I looked into it some more and you were right.....I'm not sure if I got wrong info or if maybe my state is different. I will be checking it out some more.

 

[EXman]

Are you gonna be a CT or a T?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Buy what you want, I'm saving up for the new Sig.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: JonnyDuke
Hey Specop.....my apologies.....I looked into it some more and you were right.....I'm not sure if I got wrong info or if maybe my state is different. I will be checking it out some more.

No worries.
Its ALWAYS best to double and triple check. Firearm violation are not something to take lightly, not by any stretch.
Also, there very well could be state or local laws affecting a build it yourself firearm.

On a side note, did you know you can build your own suppressor? You still have to file the paperwork and get the tax stamp, however you can build your own suppressor.
I would already have one but...back to that state issue. I cant legally own a suppressor or a machinegun in Kansas. I can own a SBR. If I moved to Missouri I could own machineguns. If I moved to Nebraksa I could own anything I damn well please.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Depends on who this is for. I wouldn't want my younger son firing an AK47 until he was at least 12 but an AR-15 I'd consider giving to him at a slightly younger age. If the gun is just for you, I think you'll find more enjoyment with an AR-15 recreationally. But if you are getting this gun for home defense, the reliability and power of an AK47 will be your best bet.

Neither is good for home defense. The best weapon for home defense is a sawed-off shotgun. Wider scatter than a normal barrel, less likely to punch through a wall and kill a loved one, shorter barrel so harder for an attacker to grab successfully, and long and heavy enough to use as a club.

Sawed off shotguns are illegal. Go to jail.
The disclaimer to that is if you registered it as an AOW.

Additionally, shotguns still have enough penetration to punch through about every wall in your house.
Firearms tests
Shotgun penetration tests

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
I just don't understand the perpetual hard on people have with guns.

It's more of a replacement hard on.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Buy what you want, I'm saving up for the new Sig.

That gun is HOT.
Alot of people are pretty pissed Sig didnt stick to the original design. Rumor is Sig will offer a "purist" for of the 550 series.
Me? I like the 556. That thing is pure sex. I'd take that over an AR any day of the week. Those piston uppers are nice, and while I dont have any hard data from what I've seen they hit alot harder then gas impingement systems such as the AR.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Depends on who this is for. I wouldn't want my younger son firing an AK47 until he was at least 12 but an AR-15 I'd consider giving to him at a slightly younger age. If the gun is just for you, I think you'll find more enjoyment with an AR-15 recreationally. But if you are getting this gun for home defense, the reliability and power of an AK47 will be your best bet.

Neither is good for home defense. The best weapon for home defense is a sawed-off shotgun. Wider scatter than a normal barrel, less likely to punch through a wall and kill a loved one, shorter barrel so harder for an attacker to grab successfully, and long and heavy enough to use as a club.

Sawed off shotguns are illegal. Go to jail.
The disclaimer to that is if you registered it as an AOW.

Additionally, shotguns still have enough penetration to punch through about every wall in your house.
Firearms tests
Shotgun penetration tests

Duh. Still, only a retard would recommend an AR-15 for home defense. A decent handgun would be better.

We were talking about sawed-off shotguns. Try repeating that test with a shorter barrel. The penetration power of a single pellet outside of a group is much reduced-- you should know that already.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Depends on who this is for. I wouldn't want my younger son firing an AK47 until he was at least 12 but an AR-15 I'd consider giving to him at a slightly younger age. If the gun is just for you, I think you'll find more enjoyment with an AR-15 recreationally. But if you are getting this gun for home defense, the reliability and power of an AK47 will be your best bet.

Neither is good for home defense. The best weapon for home defense is a sawed-off shotgun. Wider scatter than a normal barrel, less likely to punch through a wall and kill a loved one, shorter barrel so harder for an attacker to grab successfully, and long and heavy enough to use as a club.

Sawed off shotguns are illegal. Go to jail.
The disclaimer to that is if you registered it as an AOW.

Additionally, shotguns still have enough penetration to punch through about every wall in your house.
Firearms tests
Shotgun penetration tests

Duh. Still, only a retard would recommend an AR-15 for home defense. A decent handgun would be better.

We were talking about sawed-off shotguns. Try repeating that test with a shorter barrel. The penetration power of a single pellet outside of a group is much reduced-- you should know that already.

Then we get back to the legalities part of the equation.

On top of all of that, even a short barrel shot gun is still going to plow through drywall pretty damn fast.
More of an issue to be is, if you decrease penetration for fear of blasting through walls you also decrease your ability to neutralize your attacker. Its a trade off. As the gun gets safer to use in urban settings it also becuase safer for your attacker.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Buy what you want, I'm saving up for the new Sig.

That gun is HOT.
Alot of people are pretty pissed Sig didnt stick to the original design. Rumor is Sig will offer a "purist" for of the 550 series.
Me? I like the 556. That thing is pure sex. I'd take that over an AR any day of the week. Those piston uppers are nice, and while I dont have any hard data from what I've seen they hit alot harder then gas impingement systems such as the AR.

Rumor also has it that HK-USA is taking SIG's lead and will start to offer civilian longarms again.