Buyer beware, GFWL+Codemasters+online+unsupported country=:(

[Purple44]

Buyer beware, GFWL+Codemasters+online+unsupported country= Can not race online. ( Games for Windows LIVE )

This what happening with DIRT 2 and will we see this happen with F1 and if there a GRID 2? Checkout this repost:

Will Codemasters give new CD-key to those players in unsupport countires that need...

Will Codemasters give new CD-key to those players in unsupported countries that need a new CD-key so they can make a new LIVE ID that will let them race DIRT 2 online?

A lot these players have bought other Codemasters racing games and race them online and now they can not race DIRT 2 online. Will Codemasters refund them their money since they were not warn that they can not use GFWL to race online?

Microsoft say they will not fix this problem, the ball is in Codemasters court.

Problem - Dirt2 - cd-key and windows live accaunt
hotchilli1327 replied on Thu, Dec 10 2009 12:32 PM
rated by 0 users

With Dirt 2 the Key is tied to the original Live ID that you first used the game with and you cannot change this. This is the decision of the game Publisher, not GFWL. Go to the game publisher, Codemasters, to see if they can help you with a new key.



Good luck.

********

Zavrazhnov replied on Wed, Dec 9 2009 5:12 PM
rated by 0 users

I want you again to answer. What can I do in my situation

I live in London
But I work in England-Russia company. Offices in both countrys.
When the game appears in Steam - I buy it. I was in Russia.
When I buy it - I immediately launch it, then register accaunt in windows live and it was registered with Russia region (because I was in Russia, and windows was with Russia region settings)
When I was buying the game, there were no warnings, that I can't play a game if my account is from no-supported country. I read about it only on windows live forum, when the problem happened.
Now I register new account with my real United Kingdom region setting - but I can't move the key to it.
Now I can't play a game not from Russia, not from United Kingdom.
So what can I do?

***********

Fuvio79 replied on Wed, Dec 9 2009 4:29 PM
rated by 0 users

If we could login first and after that we were asked for the key we wouldn't have this problem. But the sole fact that GFWL works everywhere if you just fill in you live in US (or other supported country) is ridiculous. I don't care about Dirt 2 anymore but I'll be definitely more careful in future. By that I mean I'll never buy another game that is connected with GFWL in any way.

And will we have this same problem with Codemasters games in 2010? It things like this that drive paying customers to be a pirate and this does not help boost the sales of computer games.

.

.

Don't feel right buying DIRT 2 if others are getting screwed out of their hard earn dollars. There over 166 unsupported countries that are lock out of racing DIRT 2 online.
GFWL stole my game

Attention. This game is a scam, as it works on Windows-Live

Steam vs GFWL ( Games for Windows LIVE ) and unsupported countries.

*******************************************************

Here a post to give some perspective on Microsoft foot dragging:

Don't hold your breath while waiting for Microsoft ....

Don't hold your breath while waiting for Microsoft to add more supported countries to GFWL ( Games for Windows LIVE ) that will be allow to race online. I hope Codemasters will change their mind and make DIRT 2 the last racing game to use GFWL!

I found this post over at Games for Windows LIVE forum:

NON-LIVE SUPPORTED COUNTRIES POST

When it comes to Steam, they had just as many problems, if not more then what the Live service with GFWL is experiencing now. As to the number of Live countries supported I am not going to specualate on that because I have no idea why there is so few compaired to others and screaming and acting like a little child is not going to change that. I am sure as time goes on more and more countries will become live enabled. Time will tell.

Some fact checking:

Steam launched on September 2003 and to this day supports hundreds of countries

Xbox LIVE launched on November 2002 and to this day supports 26 countries

Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection launched on November 2005 and to this day supports all countries where Nintendo officially sells their consoles.

PlayStation Network launched on November 2006 and to this day supports 56 countries, with Latin America lacking the Store and PlayStation Home.

In 6 years, Steam has achieved full support for over 200 Countries

In 7 years, Microsoft has barely achieved support for 26 Countries

In 4 years, Nintendo has achieved support for over 60 Countries, all of them available since launch.

In 3 years, Sony has achieved support for 56 Countries

So let me doubt that time will tell, and that more will be added as time goes on, because LIVE has existed for longer than Steam and other similar services, and is the one with the worst support.

Please Codemasters and Microsoft fix this injustice to online racing! Let the WHOLE world race online like we do with GRID and Flatout 2!!

And hopefully new racing game Blur.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Why is MS taking most of the criticism for this issue when the issue clearly lies with CM?

 

[Purple44]

I feel they are both at fault.

Codemasters for choosing to use GFWL that block over 166 unsupported countries from racing DIRT 2 online. When with Codemasters DIRT 1 and GRID, we all were able to race online no matter where you live in the world if you had a good broadband connection to the internet. Codemasters using GFWL is a step backwards for online racing when it block out half the world from racing online.

Microsoft at fault for not having more supported countries for the PC, it might be OK for Xbox not to be able to race the whole world online, but it not OK to block paying PC customers from racing online.

Players have been getting DIRT 2 from Steam\Direct2drive or from online stores and have not been told before they bought DIRT 2, that if they do not live in one the only 26 supported countries that has support for Game for Windows LIVE, they will not be able to race online.

Players are paying $40-$70 for DIRT 2 and after they install DIRT 2 and create their LIVE ID, they find out they can not race DIRT 2 online if they live in one the over 166 unsupported countries. They can only race DIRT 2 offline and they also have to figure out how to get LIVE to go into offline mode so game will save their in game progress.


But if you know before hand and "lie" and setup a LIVE ID with one of the 26 supported countries, then LIVE will let you race online. So why can't Microsoft at least warn you when you set up LIVE ID for the first time, that if you live in an unsupported country, you will not get any tech support, will not be able to get DLCs if game maker releases one, but still allow these players from unsupported countries to still race online? Why block them from racing a game online that they paid for?

This just encourages more pirating of PC games. Why pay $40-$70 for a PC game I can't race online!!!!

I hope we can change Codemasters mind about using GFWL or we will be stuck with GFWL when Codemasters releases F1 this year and if they are working on GRID 2.

 

[Rebel44]

I agree that this should either be fixed PDQ or users should be given refund.

I first met GFWL last year with beta of Buy Warhammer® 40,000™: Dawn of War® II and after that I swore not to ever buy game that use GFWL.

 

[BladeVenom]

GFWL = Fail

 

[mindcycle]

gfwl = fail

qtf

 

[Purple44]

I just found this petition at the "Game for Windows LIVE" forum. If you want Microsoft to change their ways with GFWL, you might want to sign this petition:

Add the support of other countries into LIVE

To: Microsoft and Games for Windows - LIVE team

We want Microsoft to include support of many other countries into LIVE like Russia, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, China and many others! Stop discriminating the players!

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

 

[JoshGuru7]

Stop discriminating the players!

To be fair, discriminating the players is deceptively fun and hard to quit once you've done it a few times.

Perhaps I don't understand this properly but I'm not clear on what you are blaming Microsoft for here. You say Microsoft is at fault for not having more supported countries, but clearly they should be free to choose what countries they support. There are much larger problems with Games for Windows Live than that it only supports the same countries as XBox Live, but they are all simply reasons not to use the service. Microsoft is under no more obligation to provide support to Russia than I am.

On the other hand, Codemasters is both the developer and the publisher as well as the party deciding to use GFWL. They are responsible for listing product requirements (GFWL account from approved country) and if they have not done so then they are responsible for refunding your purchase. Steam could also be partly at fault if the game box lists the requirement but they did not list it on their store page. Shouldn't your quotes and tech support issues be addressed to Codemasters or Steam?

 

[Purple44]

With Codemasters GRID I'm able to race players from all around the world, with BugBear Flatout 2 I'm able to race players from all around the world. These are 2 the best racing games you can race online with the Whole world.

Now come along Codemasters DIRT 2 and for the first time Codemasters is using GFWL and unsuspecting players from around the world have brought DIRT 2 from Steam ( pay $40-$70 ) and after installing DIRT 2 and creating there first ever LIVE ID, they then find out that their $40-$70 game can not go online because they happen to live in the wrong country!!!

They use to race GRID online no problem, they use to race Flatout 2 online no problem. Now because Codemasters made a bad decision to use GFWL and Steam and Codemasters did not warn these players before they brought DIRT 2, these guys are stuck out in the cold with a game they can not race online.

A lot us online racers are upset that GFWL is dividing the online PC racing community. Xbox players may be OK with not being able to race the Whole world online, but it is not OK on the PC side where we have been racing the Whole world online for many years and feel Microsoft GFWL is a major injustice to online racing. Why does Microsoft want to divide the world?

And yes I have complain loudly to Codemasters in their DIRT 2 and F1 forums and I have complain to Steam at their DIRT forum and a few other places. I hope we can change Codemasters mind about using GFWL if Microsoft is going to contiue blocking over half the world from online play and hope to get Steam to place a warning on web pages that are selling GFWL games, ( Be aware that this game uses Games for Windows LIVE and will block you from online play if live in one the over 166 unsupported countries. ) If Steam can support over 200 countries and territories, why Microsoft only have 26 supported countries?

I feel we are at a crossroads this year, will game makers like Codemasters ( F1 ) and Bizarre ( Blur ) use Games for Windows LIVE and risk pissing off more paying customers:

I have the same problem. I used cdkey in Poland, and now i can play only offline. People responsible 4 that should just go to jail 4 stealing from us.
It was ma last original game from codemasters/microsoft. If they can steal from us, we can steal from them.

PS. I suppose there won't be Windows LIVE support in Poland in the future??

http://community.codemasters.com/fo.../399601-gfwl-stole-my-game-6.html#post5963400

Or will game makers find a better solution that will help protect their game from piracy, but also let the whole world race online. GFWL seem to help create more piracy:

Does GFWL help prevent piracy or help create piracy?

 

[JoshGuru7]

A lot us online racers are upset that GFWL is dividing the online PC racing community. Xbox players may be OK with not being able to race the Whole world online, but it is not OK on the PC side where we have been racing the Whole world online for many years and feel Microsoft GFWL is a major injustice to online racing. Why does Microsoft want to divide the world?

I understand why you are unhappy but you need to think more critically about where the blame lies. Look at your post and see that it's almost entirely about Microsoft and GFWL and barely mentions Codemasters.

Let's say Codemasters provided a shredder with the game for DRM activation, and when you put your game CD into the shredder it was destroyed. Would you blame the company that made the shredder? Or Codemasters for selling you a product with a shredder as DRM? Ultimately, Codemasters assumes responsibility for the results of GFWL.

You have nothing to complain if you are given proper notice of the product requirements, and if you are not given proper notice then you should hold the publisher and distributor responsible.

 

[VooDooAddict]

It's quite unfortunate. GFWL had a simple solid idea. - Bring the functionality of Xbox Live to PC.

To say that it's been poorly executed is a huge understatement. It's clear that some of the executive decision makers do not understand the PC gamer customer. So along with chat, friends lists, and achievements they also brought along the draconian publishing tactics of console gaming. Something that has a huge negative impact for PC gamers unaccustomed to these restrictions. When console games were unconnected to the internet region locking was very rarely a problem. Internet connected PC and a globalized workforce is making these arbitrary (from the perspective of the customer) region rules incredibly painful.

While I personally haven't had any issues with GFWL. It is on my "DO NOT GIFT" list along with install count DRM'd titles. I buy lots of games as gifts for friends and family to use at my hosted LAN parties. While I buy GFWL titles for myself. I refuse to buy GFWL titles for others. Doing so would just be asking for trouble as I am the tech support for most of these people.

 

[Purple44]

One more DIRT 2 player to add to the list of players robbed by GFWL ( Games for Windows LIVE ):

Cannot play online with Live Account. Possibly unrecoverable key?

Hello guys at Steam,

I haven't been a steam player for too long and this is my first post here at the forums.

This is my problem:

Last week I bought a Radeon 5850 and with it I got a coupon to download and play Dirt 2 via Steam. I entered the key onto my profile, downloaded and installed the game. When it ran, a screen popped up requesting a Windows Live login. I had never used it. All I knew about it was that Live was the multiplayer component of the Xbox360, but never had I tested it on the PC.

As it was requesting a Live ID, I typed in my hotmail login and password. On the next screen I was prompted to insert the game CD Key and I did so.

After that, it started some sort of validation process and a message came up telling me that Live was not supported on my region and/or with my login.

I live in Brazil where the consoles and hardware from Microsoft are supported, but - as I discovered in the most terrible way - Live is not.

I googled the fore-mentioned problem and discovered that everyone, from countries where this service is not officially supported, creates an account with a US address and so they are able to play.

I also tried doing the same, but now when I try and register, it tells me that the CD Key I am inserting is already attached to another Live account, which, I cannot access.

I am sorry for the harsh words, but is utterly ridiculous. How can Steam sell a game world-wide, which is NOT world-wide supported? How come there are absolutely not warnings that this, which has happened to me, could happen?

I have possibly lost my serial number because of the absolute lack of care and interest from both parts, Steam sells a game that does not work world-wide which uses a service from Microsoft that doesn't work world-wide either.

It simply makes you fell worthless. You are supporting the work of developers by using an original game and you get this? It's simply appalling.

Is there a way for steam to cancel this possibly "lost" serial and send me another one? I have the original card with the serial and I can provide them with a Scan or picture of it. It's just too sad to be in a situation like that when no warning or hadsup has been given.

I hope this can be solved.

Thank you beforehand for any help.

Best regards,
Henrique

 

[KMFJD]

Talk about passing the buck, none of the parties involved want to help you from what i have read.

 

[nitromullet]

I'm not really sure why people are giving him a hard time for blaming MS... IMO, they are the issue. GFWL doesn't support or allow players from some countries to play online with each other. Only MS can fix this issue.

If Codemasters wanted to fix the issue, they would need to stop using GFWL. This is probably not really a realistic option at this point. I'm pretty sure there are contractual obligations on both sides.

Steam really can't fix the issue at all. Steam is the distributor of the game, and they will pass on any requirements or warnings from the developer/publisher. If you bought the game at Wal-Mart would you expect the employees at the store to know what regions the game can be played in? Doubtful. Why do you expect more from Steam than any other distributor? If there is a problem with Steam, Valve should fix it. If there is a problem with your game's functionality, the game dev/publisher should fix it.

I also doubt Steam will re-issue a cd-key to someone so they can forge their country information to circumvent MS' GFWL regions. While in this situation it wouldn't affect Valve directly, don't forget that Valve plays region politics themselves with cost structures and won't allow you play a game bought in say Thailand on a US account.

Really, the only entity involved that can resolve the issue without someone having to forge their information or re-negotiate contractual obligations is MS by implementing worldwide gaming with a GFWL account. I'm not saying that is going to happen, but as far as I can tell they are the broken link in the chain.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Charming. Sell a game worldwide but only support multi-player in a few countries. In combating piracy they've become just an unethical as the pirates

 

[nitromullet]

Has anyone tried just changing their address associated with their gamertag to a different country at xbox.com?

 

[Purple44]

Once you set up a LIVE ID to a certain country, Microsoft will not let you change it. But if know the trick before installing DIRT 2, you can lie when you make a new LIVE ID and use one of the supported countries, then install DIRT 2 and use CD-key, players from unsupported countries have been able to go online.

But if this is your first time dealing with GFWL and you don't know to use this trick when making a new LIVE ID, your DIRT 2 will be lockout of online racing and there no getting a new CD-key to try again. Your CD-key is permanently tie to LIVE ID from an unsupported country.

 

[JoshGuru7]

I'm not really sure why people are giving him a hard time for blaming MS... IMO, they are the issue. GFWL doesn't support or allow players from some countries to play online with each other. Only MS can fix this issue.

Here's why - the party that can solve a problem is much less important then the party with incentive to solve a problem. Microsoft has made a decision to not support online play in certain countries and calling them to tell them you disagree is not going to signficantly alter their incentives. Codemasters, on the other hand, is trying to sell a bunch of DiRT2 copies and has an incentive to work towards your satisifaction in order to take or keep your money.

If Codemasters wanted to fix the issue, they would need to stop using GFWL. This is probably not really a realistic option at this point. I'm pretty sure there are contractual obligations on both sides.

This is certainly not the case: http://www.develop-online.net/news/30211/Games-for-Windows-Live-now-free-to-developers

Microsoft may be a big company but in this relationship they are the provider and Codemasters is the client. Codemasters is happy enough with the price (free) to overlook the limitations of the product. The way that this situation changes is when Codemasters decides that the limitations of GFWL are more severe than the benefits.

 

[nitromullet]

Once you set up a LIVE ID to a certain country, Microsoft will not let you change it. But if know the trick before installing DIRT 2, you can lie when you make a new LIVE ID and use one of the supported countries, then install DIRT 2 and use CD-key, players from unsupported countries have been able to go online.

But if this is your first time dealing with GFWL and you don't know to use this trick when making a new LIVE ID, your DIRT 2 will be lockout of online racing and there no getting a new CD-key to try again. Your CD-key is permanently tie to LIVE ID from an unsupported country.

Really? I can log into my Live account at xbox.com and change all the contact info, and I have done so many times when I've moved. I haven't tried to change it to another country because I haven't needed to, but it seems sort of odd that MS wouldn't take into consideration that someone might move from one country to another.

@JoshGuru7: I see your point.

 

[Purple44]

Shame on Codemasters for turning a deaf ear to the online racing community, Helios confirm F1 2010 will use GFWL. Look like GIRD will be my last Codemasters game:

Repost form F1 forum, " WHY Codemasters, why are you using Games for Windows LIVE? "

I thought I updated this thread when I updated Facebook, but yes F1 2010 will be using GFWL on the PC.

Please Helios, tell us why Codemasters has decide to stick with "Games for Windows LIVE" after all the complaints and problems GFWL cause with DIRT 2?

F1 racing is popular around the world, so why would Codemasters use a program that block over 166 countries from racing online? And is going to cost you PC sales and a lot of headaches dealing with corrupted savegames files and delaying the first PC patch by a month while Microsoft certify the patch? ( DIRT 2 first and only patch, took 3 months to get release, GIRD first patch only took 5 weeks, second patch a month later )

Yes the patch will have to go through Microsoft Submission and Testing just like it would if it was a Xbox 360 game.

http://community.codemasters.com/fo...-1317/401137-sli-please-codies-some-news.html

It seem the PS3 is the only gaming platfrom that is safe to use world wide. Even the Xbox 360 is getting block from racing online if sold in an unsupported country.

There got to be a better solution than GFWL, that will help protect games from being pirated, but still let paying customers race\shoot\play online.

Will Codemasters print on the PC box and Steam download page this time around, that if live in country not supported by "Games for Windows LIVE", you will not be able to go online and race or get DLCs?

Will Codemasters make it clear to buyers before they buy F1 2010, that if they have the misfortune to live in a country that Microsoft will never support ( been 3 years and Microsoft has not added any new countries to their supported country list of 26 ), Microsoft will block you from racing online. Codemasters did not do this with DIRT 2, so many players got ripoff of there hard earn $40-$70 when they bought DIRT 2, then LIVE block them from online racing!

To the Live Team:

What is the current situation in bringing Live to South Africa?

We have been given the same story for over 3.5 years now with still nothing concrete, and no hint of Live coming anywhere near us:

2006-08-22: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/22/xbox-360-invades-south-africa-next-month/

2007-05-09: http://www.news24.com/Content/SciTe...05-2007-11-02/Xbox_Live_set_to_roll_out_in_SA

2007-11-19: http://www.news24.com/Content/SciTe.../19-11-2007-12-04/Xbox_Live_keeps_SA_in_limbo

2008-01-16: http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/no-xbox-live-for-south-africa/

2009-10-15: http://www.xboxgaming.co.za/news/xbox-live-to-launch-sooner-rather-than-later-in-south-africa/

Additional Reading:

* http://www.sayyoursay.com/Xbox360/
* http://www.sayyoursay.com/Xbox360/Xbox_Reply.aspx

As consumers, should we stop waisting our time, and money, and start supporting other gaming systems? WebAfrica will be launching a full mirror Steam server here next week, so Valve obviously can see a market.

What we're asking for is relatively simple, we're not wanting all the bells and whistles that come with XBox Live, but what we want is a South African gamertag, access to DLC, and access to multiplayer.

Wii's Network and the PSN are both available here, we even have iPhone stores and support from Apple.

We're tired of the same responses, please respond with something worthwhile so that we can either know that waiting for Live is on its way, or we can take our attention elsewhere and start supporting a system that supports us as a community.

I know I've created a seperate thread on this, I've done this as I can see this post getting lost, and then overlooked, in this thread.

Thank you.

NON-LIVE SUPPORTED COUNTRIES POST


I will never, ever buy a "Games for Windows LIVE" game again!!!! Please Codemasters, see the light and let all of us race online.

 

[Elcs]

If the problem is GFWL ... I have not heard any complaints to this affect about Dawn of War 2 or Chaos Rising. I have to ask the question "Why not?"

I am not sure of the answer in this case but it is an interesting question as DoW2 has been out for over a year now and is a played heavily online in several different game modes.