Business and Human Rights

[aidanjm]

I was facinated to read that the UN has come up with what they call "Norms for Business" - a set of (non binding, non-enforced) guidelines for businesses to follow when considering their impact on human rights:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/business/un_norms.html

In a nutshell, the guidelines are saying that-
-companies should not be involved in actions that result in human rights abuses
-companies should ensure that their products aren't being used to inflict human rights abuses on citizens

High profile companies violating these kinds of norms include Yahoo, Google and Microsoft.

I'm sure most of you read about Yahoo handing over information that led to a political dissident journalist/ blogger being imprisoned. In this case, Yahoo played a very direct role in the human rights abuse of a citizen. Amnesty International's analysis of the Yahoo/ China case:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/business/censorship.html

Google and Microsoft block searches that include words like "Human rights" etc.

Essentially these companies are willing to engage in practices that violate human rights (or allow governments to violate human rights) in order to exploit a large market.

Obviously this is not a new thing. Capitalism and fascism work well together. There are numerous horrorific examples. E.g., world War II, where large corporations worked hand in hand with the Nazis to design efficient killing machines (gas chambers, ovens that could burn large numbers of human corpses). Companies like IBM contributed with office equipment allowing the efficient processing of the records on the large numbers of Jews being murdered by the Nazi regime. For another horrific example, see Shell's disgraceful and immoral behavior in Nigeria.

I think there needs to be more public discussion around this idea of businesses being required to be respect human rights (especially when they are operating in foreign countries).

anmesty international's web site on business and human rights:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/business/index.do

 

[Genx87]

And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

No, my point is that establishing a set of guidelines that all businesses can follow re: human rights seems like a great idea. Kudos to the UN for kick starting this.

 

[aidanjm]

I'd like to see companies like Yahoo, Google and Microsoft face legal sanction in the USA and Europe for their human rights abuses in foreign countries like China.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

No, my point is that it would be useful to establish a set of guidelines that all businesses can follow re: human rights.

Oh, the msg got muddled when you started going on a tangent about evil capitalism + fascism and IBM.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

No, my point is that establishing a set of guidelines that all businesses can follow re: human rights seems like a great idea. Kudos to the UN for kick starting this.

It would be even better if the UN had the means of enforcing any of their guidelines. Until then, it's meaningless.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

No, my point is that it would be useful to establish a set of guidelines that all businesses can follow re: human rights.

Oh, the msg got muddled when you started going on a tangent about evil capitalism + fascism and IBM.

my point is that companies will do some rather despicable things to make a buck. thus a set of norms governing the behaviour of corporations re: human rights is a good idea. understand?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

No, my point is that establishing a set of guidelines that all businesses can follow re: human rights seems like a great idea. Kudos to the UN for kick starting this.

It would be even better if the UN had the means of enforcing any of their guidelines. Until then, it's meaningless.

well, companies are concerned about public opinion. a very concerted public campaign against e.g., Yahoo might do some damage, and give them pause to re-think their shameful, immoral and disgraceful behavior in China.

at any rate, just having people discuss the very idea of businesses being required to respect human rights seems like a step forward.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

And Ford sold cars to the Nazis.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Good ideas/technology can be easily used at a later date for the incorrect/unintended purposes.

At what point to you blame the business vs those that mis-use it?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Genx87
And the state run companies in the Soviet Union contributed to the slaughter of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europeans.

So is your point evil people can use ideology + industry to do horrible things?

And Ford sold cars to the Nazis.

And?

 

[CanOWorms]

Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft's violations are pretty light in regards to human rights violations. I think one of the biggest violators and a good example probably has to be Canada's Talisman oil company. They're now being sued by the Presbyterian Church in a US court and are accused of ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape in Sudan. That's a hefty list of human rights violations there. Too bad they're still being supported by the Canadian government.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Good ideas/technology can be easily used at a later date for the incorrect/unintended purposes.

At what point to you blame the business vs those that mis-use it?

Yahoo handing the information that identified that dissident over to the Chinese authorities was directly responsible for that man's imprisonment.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Good ideas/technology can be easily used at a later date for the incorrect/unintended purposes.

At what point to you blame the business vs those that mis-use it?

Yahoo handing the information that identified that dissident over to the Chinese authorities was directly responsible for that man's imprisonment.

Are you suggesting Business not respect the law of the land within a nation?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Good ideas/technology can be easily used at a later date for the incorrect/unintended purposes.

At what point to you blame the business vs those that mis-use it?

Yahoo handing the information that identified that dissident over to the Chinese authorities was directly responsible for that man's imprisonment.

Are you suggesting Business not respect the law of the land within a nation?

Yep. If those laws violate international standards on human rights.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Good ideas/technology can be easily used at a later date for the incorrect/unintended purposes.

At what point to you blame the business vs those that mis-use it?

Yahoo handing the information that identified that dissident over to the Chinese authorities was directly responsible for that man's imprisonment.

Are you suggesting Business not respect the law of the land within a nation?

Yep. If those laws violate international standards on human rights.

That is really intresting.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Good ideas/technology can be easily used at a later date for the incorrect/unintended purposes.

At what point to you blame the business vs those that mis-use it?

Yahoo handing the information that identified that dissident over to the Chinese authorities was directly responsible for that man's imprisonment.

Are you suggesting Business not respect the law of the land within a nation?

Yep. If those laws violate international standards on human rights.

Devils advocate:

What if the company needs/chooses to have business within a country. They need to follow the rules of the host country.
It is up to the international body to apply pressure on the host country to change their rules.

Lets extrapoliate the situation to say that if a company does business with country X; then country Y will deny the ability for the company do operate within its borders. Who is violating international trade.

Similar to the failed Arab boycotts of companies that did business with Israel back in the 60-70s.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft's violations are pretty light in regards to human rights violations. I think one of the biggest violators and a good example probably has to be Canada's Talisman oil company. They're now being sued by the Presbyterian Church in a US court and are accused of ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape in Sudan. That's a hefty list of human rights violations there. Too bad they're still being supported by the Canadian government.

Conditions for civilians in the oilfields actually worsened when the Canadian company Talisman Energy Inc. and the Swedish company Lundin Oil AB were lead partners in two concessions in southern Sudan. Amid mounting pressure from rights groups, Talisman sold its interest in its Sudanese concessions in late 2002, and Lundin followed in June.

Text

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft's violations are pretty light in regards to human rights violations. I think one of the biggest violators and a good example probably has to be Canada's Talisman oil company. They're now being sued by the Presbyterian Church in a US court and are accused of ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape in Sudan. That's a hefty list of human rights violations there. Too bad they're still being supported by the Canadian government.

Conditions for civilians in the oilfields actually worsened when the Canadian company Talisman Energy Inc. and the Swedish company Lundin Oil AB were lead partners in two concessions in southern Sudan. Amid mounting pressure from rights groups, Talisman sold its interest in its Sudanese concessions in late 2002, and Lundin followed in June.

Text

Yes, after 5 years or so of ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape they finally quit Sudan after much internatinal condemnation. It could have stopped much sooner if the Canadian government didn't support them.

It easily ranks up there as one of the worst casues of human rights violations by businesses.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft's violations are pretty light in regards to human rights violations. I think one of the biggest violators and a good example probably has to be Canada's Talisman oil company. They're now being sued by the Presbyterian Church in a US court and are accused of ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape in Sudan. That's a hefty list of human rights violations there. Too bad they're still being supported by the Canadian government.

Conditions for civilians in the oilfields actually worsened when the Canadian company Talisman Energy Inc. and the Swedish company Lundin Oil AB were lead partners in two concessions in southern Sudan. Amid mounting pressure from rights groups, Talisman sold its interest in its Sudanese concessions in late 2002, and Lundin followed in June.

Text

Yes, after 5 years or so of ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape they finally quit Sudan after much internatinal condemnation. It could have stopped much sooner if the Canadian government didn't support them.

It easily ranks up there as one of the worst casues of human rights violations by businesses.

I'm just glad you agree this all has to stop, whoever is doing it

Exxon Mobil

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

I'm just glad you agree this all has to stop, whoever is doing it

Exxon Mobil

It seems to me that you think this is some sort of game.

I don't think that there would be many companies comparable to Talisman. It should stop, but thankfully not many are as ruthless as Talisman and its government supporters. I can't even imagine what would happen if Talisman officials were in charge of a larger operation.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

I'm just glad you agree this all has to stop, whoever is doing it

Exxon Mobil

It seems to me that you think this is some sort of game.

I don't think that there would be many companies comparable to Talisman. It should stop, but thankfully not many are as ruthless as Talisman and its government supporters. I can't even imagine what would happen if Talisman officials were in charge of a larger operation.

The thread was about some American businesses ignoring human rights for profit. In the middle of the thread you came across with *BUT look at this Canadian business* which for whatever reason, you always do. And your still going to ignore the U.S. company that is doing the same thing in several countries ( click the link and read )

Like I said, this has got to stop WHOEVER is doing it, right?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

I'm just glad you agree this all has to stop, whoever is doing it

Exxon Mobil

It seems to me that you think this is some sort of game.

I don't think that there would be many companies comparable to Talisman. It should stop, but thankfully not many are as ruthless as Talisman and its government supporters. I can't even imagine what would happen if Talisman officials were in charge of a larger operation.

The thread was about some American businesses ignoring human rights for profit. In the middle of the thread you came across with *BUT look at this Canadian business* which for whatever reason, you always do. And your still going to ignore the U.S. company that is doing the same thing in several countries ( click the link and read )

Like I said, this has got to stop WHOEVER is doing it, right?

No, this thread is about business and human rights. Where is it specified that this discussion is restricted to American companies? I am completely surprised by your statement. The OP doesn't mention anything such as that, and even mentions a non-American company.

Are you Canadian? I'm assuming that you're the stereotypical Canadian and you somehow viewed my example of Talisman as an example of one of the worst cases as some sort of insult against your Queen's kingdom. My apologies if you're not.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

No, this thread is about business and human rights. Where is it specified that this discussion is restricted to American companies? I am completely surprised by your statement. The OP doesn't mention anything such as that, and even mentions a non-American company.

Are you Canadian? I'm assuming that you're the stereotypical Canadian and you somehow viewed my example of Talisman as an example of one of the worst cases as some sort of insult against your Queen's kingdom. My apologies if you're not.

High profile companies violating these kinds of norms include Yahoo, Google and Microsoft.

Obviously this is not a new thing. Capitalism and fascism work well together. There are numerous horrorific examples. E.g., world War II, where large corporations worked hand in hand with the Nazis to design efficient killing machines (gas chambers, ovens that could burn large numbers of human corpses). Companies like IBM contributed with office equipment allowing the efficient processing of the records on the large numbers of Jews being murdered by the Nazi regime. For another horrific example, see Shell's disgraceful and immoral behavior in Nigeria.

Alright it wasn't specified

Yes, I'm a Kanuckistanian
God Save the Queen

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Alright it wasn't specified

Yes, I'm a Kanuckistanian
God Save the Queen

Not only wasn't it specified but specifying it so would seem strange. Also, Shell = Royal Dutch Shell.

The super Canadian ultra patriotism on this board is really vile.