Bush wiretaps ruled illegal

[robphelan]

too bad the Obama admin is continuing along the devious path of spying without a warrant

http://techdirt.com/articles/20100331/1228088813.shtml

 

[spidey07]

Watch the supreme court overturn it.

 

[Jhhnn]

too bad the Obama admin is continuing along the devious path of spying without a warrant

http://techdirt.com/articles/20100331/1228088813.shtml

I'll agree that the actions of the Bush Admin were clearly wrong, but the Obama admin continuing the fight against the lawsuit doesn't necessarily mean they're doing the same thing, at all. It takes a leap of faith (or lack thereof) to reach that conclusion...

 

[Patranus]

I'll agree that the actions of the Bush Admin were clearly wrong, but the Obama admin continuing the fight against the lawsuit doesn't necessarily mean they're doing the same thing, at all. It takes a leap of faith (or lack thereof) to reach that conclusion...

How are they wrong?
According the the "progressives", lack of interstate commerce constitutes interstate commerce and can therefore be regulated. When you use a telecommunications product you are engaging in interstate commerce, thus allowing congress to regulate it.

"progressives" shredded the Constitution and GWB took advantage of that. This is why it is important for BOTH side to defend the constitution, even when it doesn't fit their agenda.

 

[Carmen813]

How are they wrong?
According the the "progressives", lack of interstate commerce constitutes interstate commerce and can therefore be regulated. When you use a telecommunications product you are engaging in interstate commerce, thus allowing congress to regulate it.

"progressives" shredded the Constitution and GWB took advantage of that. This is why it is important for BOTH side to defend the constitution, even when it doesn't fit their agenda.

I forgot about all the power progressives had in Congress during 1994-2006. Or hell, all the power they have now. After all, everything that's passed Congress, even health care, was exactly what Progressives wanted.

 

[bamacre]

Interesting interview with Naomi Wolf...
http://www.alternet.org/news/146184...to_something_or_in_fantasy_land__?page=entire

 

[Patranus]

I forgot about all the power progressives had in Congress during 1994-2006. Or hell, all the power they have now. After all, everything that's passed Congress, even health care, was exactly what Progressives wanted.

That is exactly my point.

You have to look at the can of worms that "progressives" opened under FDR.

Had states rights not been eliminated or the role of the federal government greatly expanded, none of this would be an issue.

See: Slippery slope.

 

[Sclamoz]

How are they wrong?
According the the "progressives", lack of interstate commerce constitutes interstate commerce and can therefore be regulated. When you use a telecommunications product you are engaging in interstate commerce, thus allowing congress to regulate it.

"progressives" shredded the Constitution and GWB took advantage of that. This is why it is important for BOTH side to defend the constitution, even when it doesn't fit their agenda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbons_v._Ogden

What do these have to do with FDR and progressives?

 

[Brainonska511]

Watch the supreme court overturn it.

Why do you hate the Constitution?

 

[EndGame]

I'll agree that the actions of the Bush Admin were clearly wrong, but the Obama admin continuing the fight against the lawsuit doesn't necessarily mean they're doing the same thing, at all. It takes a leap of faith (or lack thereof) to reach that conclusion...

If he (Obama) isn't doing the same thing, why did he renew that part of the Patriot act as it was set to expire?

 

[MotF Bane]

I'll agree that the actions of the Bush Admin were clearly wrong, but the Obama admin continuing the fight against the lawsuit doesn't necessarily mean they're doing the same thing, at all. It takes a leap of faith (or lack thereof) to reach that conclusion...

It takes a leap of faith to NOT reach that conclusion. The Democrats extended the Patriot Act. So how about you try admitting that your beloved Democrats are also clearly wrong, or are the partisan blinders making that too much of a leap for you?

 

[Patranus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbons_v._Ogden

What do these have to do with FDR and progressives?

No one is arguing that Congress can regulate "interstate commerce" under its original intent to ensure that states do not impose taxes on certain states but not others.

What FDR and the "progressives" did do was greatly expanded its powers.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeh, it was FDR, Patranus... how utterly lame.

The Patriot act didn't allow for what the Bush Admin did, anyway, and Dems renewed the Patriot Act for 1 year because Senatorial repubs wouldn't allow them to reform it- all or nothing from them.

I'm confident that the same voices bemoaning the renewal of the act would have been raving about how Dems were "soft on Terrar!" if it hadn't been renewed... faux outrage and self righteous denial being what they are...

 

[Ozoned]

Yeh, it was FDR, Patranus... how utterly lame.

The Patriot act didn't allow for what the Bush Admin did, anyway, and Dems renewed the Patriot Act for 1 year because Senatorial repubs wouldn't allow them to reform it- all or nothing from them.

I'm confident that the same voices bemoaning the renewal of the act would have been raving about how Dems were "soft on Terrar!" if it hadn't been renewed... faux outrage and self righteous denial being what they are...

Ayup, it's obstructionism , just like the executive order that Obama signed that allows the CIA to conduct extraordinary rendition....

 

[Lanyap]

Interesting interview with Naomi Wolf...
http://www.alternet.org/news/146184...to_something_or_in_fantasy_land__?page=entire

Yes.

JS: Why do you think the sides don’t understand each other?

NW: Frankly, liberals are out of the habit of communicating with anyone outside their own in cohort. We have a cultural problem with self-righteousness and elitism. Liberals roll their eyes about going on "Oprah" to reach a mass audience by using language that anyone can understand even if you majored in semiotics at Yale. We look down on people we don’t agree with. It doesn’t serve us well.

Ouch. That hurt.

 

[nonlnear]

NW: Frankly, liberals are out of the habit of communicating with anyone outside their own in cohort. We have a cultural problem with self-righteousness and elitism. Liberals roll their eyes about going on "Oprah" to reach a mass audience by using language that anyone can understand even if you majored in semiotics at Yale. We look down on people we don’t agree with. It doesn’t serve us well.

Wait, going on Oprah reaches a mass audience that they didn't already have in the palm of their hand?

 

[Jhhnn]

Ayup, it's obstructionism , just like the executive order that Obama signed that allows the CIA to conduct extraordinary rendition....

Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but you knew that, right?

 

[werepossum]

Interesting interview with Naomi Wolf...
http://www.alternet.org/news/146184...to_something_or_in_fantasy_land__?page=entire

That was indeed an interesting interview with Naomi Wolf, which I would said was an oxymoron. Thanks! Interesting to think that the woman who made Algore butch finds even more commonality with the Tea Partiers than do I.

 

[heyheybooboo]

That was indeed an interesting interview with Naomi Wolf, which I would said was an oxymoron. Thanks! Interesting to think that the woman who made Algore butch finds even more commonality with the Tea Partiers than do I.

I can't really figure out the deal with Naomi Wolf. I've finally decided that as bight as she may be she's most likely 'coo coo for cocoa puffs'.

As far as the Bush wiretapping, get back to me when the liability shield is lifted from the TelCos.





--

 

[WHAMPOM]

If he (Obama) isn't doing the same thing, why did he renew that part of the Patriot act as it was set to expire?

Tea Baggers, Christian White Militias, home grown Jihadists, the Mission still not accomplished?

 

[Lanyap]

I can't really figure out the deal with Naomi Wolf. I've finally decided that as bight as she may be she's most likely 'coo coo for cocoa puffs'.
--

Oh yeah, now that she sees and acknowledges some of the problems of the left, she's crazy. DENIAL - DENIAL - DENIAL. LOL.

 

[EndGame]

Yeh, it was FDR, Patranus... how utterly lame.

The Patriot act didn't allow for what the Bush Admin did, anyway, and Dems renewed the Patriot Act for 1 year because Senatorial repubs wouldn't allow them to reform it- all or nothing from them.

I'm confident that the same voices bemoaning the renewal of the act would have been raving about how Dems were "soft on Terrar!" if it hadn't been renewed... faux outrage and self righteous denial being what they are...

Apparently, you need to catch up....The "Dems" were not the only or main thrust pushing for the parts of the Patriot Act which were renewed, Obama pushed for them, and very defiantly. And, not all were renewed. This after he campaigned very staunchly against wiretaps...........things that make ya go Hmmmmmmmm.........

 

[fallout man]

Interesting interview with Naomi Wolf...
http://www.alternet.org/news/146184...to_something_or_in_fantasy_land__?page=entire

Thank you for that link, bamacre. Naomi Wolf, to me, is truly one of those beacons of truth in the thick mist of bullshit. She's measured, and very astute.

She is absolutely correct to criticize the Obama administration. When they follow-through with blatantly creepy shit from the last administration, I'm hoping that there is an end-point already scheduled and prepped ASAP. The complexity of the clusterfuck can't be undone overnight, but it has been over a year. I'm still waiting...

 

[manowar821]

Interesting interview with Naomi Wolf...
http://www.alternet.org/news/146184...to_something_or_in_fantasy_land__?page=entire

I'm in love with that woman...

 

[Lanyap]

Here's a good article by Glenn Greenwald discussing the issues that many of the left have with Obama's continuing surveillance decisions.
New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/04/06/obama/index.html

I have a question for the Obama supporters who are disappointed that Obama is continuing with this type of surveillance activity. I'm looking for a good, honest, reasonable and logical explanation. I know that's asking a lot from P&N but please try. This does not refer to the legality or constituionality of the activity but why Obama's administration is defending it. I can come up with only one answer.