Bush Wants to Create More Jobs, but How?

BOBDN

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Sounds like bad economic stewardship to me.

From the NY Times.

Bush Wants to Create More Jobs, but How?
By DAVID E. ROSENBAUM

Published: September 28, 2003

WASHINGTON

REPUBLICAN senators returned from their summer recess after Labor Day to find a memo in their in-baskets from Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, who holds the No. 3 spot in their leadership. "The top issue continues to be the economy/jobs," he wrote. "Let me repeat that. The top issue continues to be the economy/jobs."

That same week, President Bush went to Kansas City, Mo., and Indianapolis to lay out what he called "a comprehensive plan for job creation all across America." The president said he would not "be satisfied until every American who's looking for a job can find a job."

The president must hope the economy, recovering strongly in other respects, begins to produce more jobs soon. But his program seems unlikely by itself to do the trick, as even some conservatives admit.

Its central feature would make permanent the tax cuts now due to expire later in the decade. Even if, as the president says he believes, lowering taxes mostly for affluent individuals is the best way to stimulate the economy in the long run, the new jobs would not be created for many years.

The other parts of the plan are mainly staples of the Republican agenda not directly related to job creation and, in any event, unlikely to have much effect on employment before the election. They include reducing government regulations on business, protecting companies from class-action lawsuits, exploring new sources of energy and allowing companies to put less money into their employee pension plans.

"Basically, he's just crossing his fingers and hoping for the best," said Bruce Bartlett, a Republican economist who worked in the first Bush administration.

Jobs have also been the issue of the month for the Democratic presidential contenders. Last week, days after he announced his candidacy, Gen. Wesley K. Clark made job creation the topic of his first formal issues paper. At their debate in New York on Thursday, the 10 candidates tried to outdo one another in demonstrating their commitment to reducing unemployment.

Since George W. Bush became president, the country has lost 2.7 million payroll jobs. Even the most optimistic White House economists do not believe that so many new jobs can be found between now and January 2005. So this will almost certainly be the first presidential term since Herbert Hoover's in which fewer Americans were at work at the end of the four years than at the beginning, even though other presidents experienced recessions deeper than Mr. Bush's.

The president's political advisers see this jobs picture as his biggest liability going into the election year.

In February, the president's Council of Economic Advisers forecast that 510,000 new jobs would be generated this year. In fact, through last month, 437,000 jobs had been lost, 93,000 in August alone.

THE latest New York Times/CBS News Poll, in July, found that 38 percent of the respondents believed the economy and jobs to be "the most important problem facing this country today," almost four times as many as those who cited the war in Iraq, the second-most-common response. A poll last week by The Wall Street Journal and NBC News found that 52 percent of those surveyed were not pleased with the way Mr. Bush had handled the economy.

"They are biting their fingernails," said a prominent Republican economist about the people he talks to regularly at the White House.

A Republican strategist who meets often with top administration officials said they were "more concerned about the economy and the lack of job creation than they are about Iraq."

Democrats see an opening. "The jobs issue is the key," said Representative Robert T. Matsui of California, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

Mr. Bush seems determined to avoid the fate of his father, who was defeated for re-election in 1992 at least in part because he seemed insensitive to a weak economy. This president talks about jobs at every opportunity. In a recent 21-minute speech at the White House on the environment, he mentioned jobs or the economy more than 20 times.

The president has suggested creating a new assistant secretary in the Commerce Department devoted to manufacturing, the economic sector with most of the job loss. The department plans to issue a report next month on steps that could make the business climate more attractive to manufacturers.

Given political and economic realities, that may be the only course available to Mr. Bush.

Interest rates are already at their lowest level in 40 years. Mr. Bush cannot expect the Federal Reserve to drive them lower.

Three straight years of tax cuts, the president's tonic for whatever ails the economy, have not improved the jobs picture but have led to the largest budget deficit in history. Further tax reductions between now and the election are not in the offing.

For the sake of protecting manufacturing jobs, Mr. Bush has already imposed stiff tariffs on imported steel, and his administration has begun scolding China and Japan about the high value of their currencies. Additional steps to restrain imports are not likely.

A Democratic president at this stage would probably propose an employment-intensive public works program. But such programs run counter to Republican philosophy, and the large budget deficit probably rules them out anyway.

"Essentially, the choices have already been made," said William C. Dudley, director of domestic economic research at Goldman Sachs.

The tax cuts Mr. Bush worked so hard for might have led to more jobs more quickly if they had been aimed more at low- and moderate-income households, Mr. Dudley said, because those people are the most likely to spend their tax savings.

"But," Mr. Dudley added, "that ship has sailed."


 

tnitsuj

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May 22, 2003
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I don't think the loss of those jobs are neccessarily the presidents responsibility, or were in the long term avoidable. Thier is no way for american manufacturers to compete with people in other countries making a few dollars a day with no benefits. A lot of these jobs are moving offshore for very good reasons, and to force companies to keep them in the US would be ultimately counterproductive, making US corporations less competive. The president could perhaps do more to aid education , and small businesses.
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: tnitsuj
I don't think the loss of those jobs are neccessarily the presidents responsibility, or were in the long term avoidable. Thier is no way for american manufacturers to compete with people in other countries making a few dollars a day with no benefits. A lot of these jobs are moving offshore for very good reasons, and to force companies to keep them in the US would be ultimately counterproductive, making US corporations less competive. The president could perhaps do more to aid education , and small businesses.
Yeah keeping US Corporations Competitive by outsourcing these jobs to Foriegn Workers creates more jobs..for Foriegn Workers.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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What kind of jobs are leaving the country? Think about it, are these highly skilled professions? I sure as hell dont want to be the country that makes the little mcDonalds toys for another country. I would rather be design semiconducters... I would blame 9/11 for the starting the downfall or atleast the start of it.
 

tnitsuj

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May 22, 2003
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This may sound a little harsh...but people who can't make themselves employable/desirable/uniquely qualified should not expect a company to keep thier unskilled job. Even manufacturing jobs have become a sort of generational entitlement/tradition. If you have no ability to adapt, or other options when your job is moved then you really put yourself in that position.
 

Red Dawn

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Originally posted by: Tabb
What kind of jobs are leaving the country? Think about it, are these highly skilled professions? I sure as hell dont want to be the country that makes the little mcDonalds toys for another country. I would rather be design semiconducters... I would blame 9/11 for the starting the downfall or atleast the start of it.
Yeah so would those who work for Levi Straus but they aren't trained to design semiconductors.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
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Yeah, it does sound a little harsh, but I get what you are saying. People need to learn new skills in order to remain competitive in the job market. However, our country does need to try to retain what manufacturing we still have. A purely service economy (as opposed to a mixed manufacturing/service one) could be harmful to the American worker and the economy. Although I doubt this will happen, I only mentioned it to underscore the importance of manufacturing in our country. It once made us great as a nation. And as per your previous post, tnitsuj, I agree that the president does not have as much power over the economy as people think he does. That is more under the control of the Federal Reserve Board (monetary policy), and through various actions of Congress (fiscal policy).
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Tabb
What kind of jobs are leaving the country? Think about it, are these highly skilled professions? I sure as hell dont want to be the country that makes the little mcDonalds toys for another country. I would rather be design semiconducters... I would blame 9/11 for the starting the downfall or atleast the start of it.
Yeah so would those who work for Levi Straus but they aren't trained to design semiconductors.

Huh? If you lost your job and you making clothes well, tough luck you should have gone to college.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Tabb
What kind of jobs are leaving the country? Think about it, are these highly skilled professions? I sure as hell dont want to be the country that makes the little mcDonalds toys for another country. I would rather be design semiconducters... I would blame 9/11 for the starting the downfall or atleast the start of it.
Yeah so would those who work for Levi Straus but they aren't trained to design semiconductors.

But why should a person not learn a better traide, while working at another? I cant imagine making jeans would be a very high paying job.

I have to see 800 jobs leave this area...
 

mastertech01

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Nov 13, 1999
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What good are the high tech skills if thats all the jobs there are? The next step of course is to water down the wages because there is a flood of people who are high tech enabled. If everyone was a rocket scientist that job would not pay well either. Are you going to tell a 40 year old mother of 5 that she needs to get real, go to college, and learn a high tech job, so that by the time she and the millions of others who get real have the skills they are paid the same lowly wages with no benefits? Even still, the companies would go for foreign labor because it is plain and simply cheaper.

Many years ago it paid BIG bucks to be a computer programmer. Now a computer programmer is virtually nothing because there are so many of them.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: mastertech01
What good are the high tech skills if thats all the jobs there are? The next step of course is to water down the wages because there is a flood of people who are high tech enabled. If everyone was a rocket scientist that job would not pay well either. Are you going to tell a 40 year old mother of 5 that she needs to get real, go to college, and learn a high tech job, so that by the time she and the millions of others who get real have the skills they are paid the same lowly wages with no benefits? Even still, the companies would go for foreign labor because it is plain and simply cheaper.

Many years ago it paid BIG bucks to be a computer programmer. Now a computer programmer is virtually nothing because there are so many of them.

A couple years ago there was a tech bubble and now reality is setting in. I am still being paid good money to be a software developer and I dont see that changing.

OUr workers are going to have to compete with workers else where. We are going to have to do this with increased productivity,better quality and marketing.
 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: BOBDN

The tax cuts Mr. Bush worked so hard for might have led to more jobs more quickly if they had been aimed more at low- and moderate-income households, Mr. Dudley said, because those people are the most likely to spend their tax savings.

"But," Mr. Dudley added, "that ship has sailed."

good way to completely ignore that saved money = invested money, through the banking system.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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As I have tried to explain many times before, competition is hostility, capitalist systems reward the biggest hogs. The greater the feelings of hostility the greater the drive to succeed. Business belongs to the Repiglican party and the more angry and frustrated they are the more our system prospers. That is why we need a smug, self confident, sexually satisfied Democrat in the White House. The hatred and anal pressure he generates will drive the nation. The country will always stagnate with a Republican in office. Sorry to tell you the bad news.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Some people keep saying the sitting President can't be responsible for the massive loss of jobs overseas and at the same time a miserable Economy.

Absolutely untrue. The president IS responsible for the "Economic Climate" that is created by the administration. They are encouraging Corporations to send their jobs overseas while enjoying huge Tax cuts at home for the skeletal staff left at the U.S. Headquarters resulting in the FAT rich Corp Executive clowns to get even richer while crying that the Company is "Struggling" but yet their profits are through the roof. Just look at any News item of the day including today where Levi's has just sent all of it's U.S. jobs overseas.

The administration has the power to make it "Hell on Earth" for Companies that send their jobs overseas by sanctioning the crap out of them while rewarding Companies that keep the jobs here.

It's generally not pretty to be a Protectionsist or Isolationist but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
 

BOBDN

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May 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: BOBDN

The tax cuts Mr. Bush worked so hard for might have led to more jobs more quickly if they had been aimed more at low- and moderate-income households, Mr. Dudley said, because those people are the most likely to spend their tax savings.

"But," Mr. Dudley added, "that ship has sailed."

good way to completely ignore that saved money = invested money, through the banking system.

Ah, but if saving is so important on the one hand how can the same Republicans who claimed the budget deficit would be the death of us all are now saying deficit spending doesn't matter?

You can't have it both ways.

Besides, the top 1% of wage earners who benefited most from Bush's tax cuts didn't save the money. They lost income this year but the loss was offset by the tax cut. It's a wash for them but a double whammy for the US Treasury. Income is down so revenue is down. Add to that the loss of billions from Bush's tax cut.

From the NY Times Business section.

Top 1% in '01 Lost Income, but Also Paid Lower Taxes
By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

Published: September 27, 2003


The incomes of the top 1 percent of Americans fell 18 percent in 2001, as did their income taxes, shaving $66 billion off revenues and showing how dependent the federal government has become on its wealthiest citizens.

Over all, Americans had 2.8 percent less income in 2001 than in the previous year. But federal tax revenues fell 9.4 percent because the incomes of those at the top, who pay the highest tax rates, dropped so much more than the average.

The top 1 percent reported $1.09 trillion of income, down from $1.34 trillion in 2000, according to data posted by the Internal Revenue Service on the Internet yesterday without announcement.

The minimum income to reach the top 1 percent was $293,000 last year, down from $313,500 in 2000, but almost identical to the threshold in 1999.

The sharp decline in incomes at the top "is obviously due to the collapse of the stock market boom and the recession," said Bruce Bartlett, a senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis, a lobbying group.

The combination of a sharp drop in income, if sustained for several years, and the tax cuts that were enacted this year could result in another sharp drop in taxes paid by the top 1 percent. The top rate on capital gains and dividends, the source of much of the income in the elite group, has been cut to 15 percent from 20 percent.

Taxes paid by the top group fell to $300.1 billion in 2001 from $366.9 billion in 2000. The decline accounted for the bulk of the $92.7 billion drop in individual federal income tax revenue in 2001.

The sharp drop in incomes caused the share of income taxes paid by the rich to shrink nearly a tenth. The share of total taxes paid by other groups consequently increased. The top group paid 33.9 percent of all income taxes, down from 37.4 percent in 2000.

The share paid by the next most wealthiest group, the 4 percent of Americans just below the top group, grew slightly. The bottom half of Americans, the 64 million households making less than $28,000, accounted for a somewhat larger share of total taxes.

The biggest increase, however, was among those making $56,000 to $92,800, whose share of all income taxes increased to 18 percent from 16.7 percent. They accounted for a larger share of income taxes than the very wealthiest, the top tenth of 1 percent of Americans who paid 16 percent of the government's total income taxes.

Isaac Shapiro, an analyst at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, a nonprofit group in Washington that advocates for the poor, said the tax rules set by Congress mean broad swings in revenues as the economy moves through good times and bad.

"If you have income concentrated at the top, it will produce tax revenue greater than growth in the economy over all," he said, adding that the opposite takes place when the economy contracts.

The I.R.S. also released data on the top tenth of 1 percent, the most prosperous 129,000 households in the country. This group had so much income that they made almost as much as the other nine-tenths in the top 1 percent.

This very top group, representing one in a thousand households, had $505 billion in income, for an average of $4 million each. To be counted among this group one needed an adjusted gross income of at least $1.3 million, down from $1.6 million in 2000.

This small group received almost $1 of every $12 earned by all 129 million American households.

Mr. Bartlett, an advocate of lower taxes, noted that the Bush tax cuts in 2001 did not cause the drop in taxes by the wealthy.

"It is pretty clear that the tax cut played no role by the fact that the average tax rate paid by the top 1 percent actually went up slightly," he said.

This group paid 27.5 cents in taxes on each dollar of reported income, up a sliver of a penny from the previous year. This increase was caused by a drop in income from capital gains, which are taxed at a much lower rate than wages.

Over all, the tax rate fell, with Americans paying the government 14.2 cents in taxes on each dollar of income, down from 15.3 cents in 2000. Because spending did not decline, the government borrowed to make up the difference, in effect deferring the cost.

While the tax cuts that President Bush championed in 2001 will give the most benefits to the top 1 percent in income, those cuts had not taken effect in 2001. At Mr. Bush's urging, Congress voted this year to make most of the cuts benefiting the wealthiest immediate instead of waiting until the latter half of this decade. Congress has now reduced the maximum income tax rate to 35 percent, from 39.6 percent when Mr. Bush was elected, and reduced the top rates on capital gains and dividend income to 15 percent from 20 percent.

 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: BOBDN

The tax cuts Mr. Bush worked so hard for might have led to more jobs more quickly if they had been aimed more at low- and moderate-income households, Mr. Dudley said, because those people are the most likely to spend their tax savings.

"But," Mr. Dudley added, "that ship has sailed."

good way to completely ignore that saved money = invested money, through the banking system.

Ah, but if saving is so important on the one hand how can the same Republicans who claimed the budget deficit would be the death of us all are now saying deficit spending doesn't matter?
we're in a recession... in order to maintain gov't service levels you have to run a deficit in a recession. now, you're supposed to be running surpluses in explansions so obviously there is some work to be done. the best thing to do with a surplus is to pay back the bondholders. and just because their income dropped doesn't mean they didn't save any money.
 

Wolfdog

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The tax cuts did nothing for those that are unemployed. It should have been blatently obvious that they weren't working last year, but what has been done since? Absolutely nothing. I for one do pin the economy on the entire federal government. They are there to protect the constituentcy that they are elected from. They haven't been doing thier jobs in that respect. Going to college isn't going to help you either. There are plenty of low wage jobs out there, but most of the higher paying ones have thousands of people vying for that one spot. There hasn't been a economic recovery since the jobs which people were laid off from are no longer in the US. This is while gas, and natural gas prices are set to gouge the consumer once again. One should think that every penny of the tax cut has gone to rising prices for necessary goods. I think it is dispicable for natural gas companies to raise thier rates in excess of 40% during the winter season. You see the federal government has the power to say no to these rate increases. They will not intervene though, as it would actually help out the people that they are elected to protect. The only true economic recovery will come next year when pres nonelect Bush leaves the office, and consumer confidence returns to the country. Since that is what has been truely missing from the nonexistant recovery. They don't feel secure in spending thier money from fear of loss of job. This is the true reason for Iraq. Bush saw the economy reeling and wanted everyone to look in my other hand. Throughout his office he has tried once and again to distance himself from anything economy related, and it will be his downfall. If the jobless trend continues the way it has, then there will be a significant percentage out of work. The real creation of jobs would stem from gas price capping and sticking it to the utility companies. Just think of it, all that extra money you would have from not being gouged at the gas pump.
 

Red Dawn

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Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Tabb
What kind of jobs are leaving the country? Think about it, are these highly skilled professions? I sure as hell dont want to be the country that makes the little mcDonalds toys for another country. I would rather be design semiconducters... I would blame 9/11 for the starting the downfall or atleast the start of it.
Yeah so would those who work for Levi Straus but they aren't trained to design semiconductors.

Huh? If you lost your job and you making clothes well, tough luck you should have gone to college.
Ah this must be the compassionate Conservatism that Dub spoike of. Spmething those worker should keep in mind when going to the polls next year

This year Levi Straus, in 2 years Boeing or Lockheed. Of course they should have learned a new trade but they didn't so tough luck.

 

Ferocious

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Feb 16, 2000
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Bush is interested in the quantity......not the quality of jobs.

Where I live.....in the past year 2 plants have closed that used to pay $11-$14 an hour blus decent benefits. A 3rd plant with similar wages will probably be closing early next year.

And like clockwork 2 Walmarts have opened in the last year with a 3rd one planned for next year.

Total employment will have increased a bit in that trade off.
 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: WolfdogThe real creation of jobs would stem from gas price capping and sticking it to the utility companies. Just think of it, all that extra money you would have from not being gouged at the gas pump.

yeah having the utilities go out of business because they can't pass resource price increases on would sure help the economy
rolleye.gif
 

LunarRay

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Mar 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: Ferocious
Bush is interested in the quantity......not the quality of jobs.

Where I live.....in the past year 2 plants have closed that used to pay $11-$14 an hour blus decent benefits. A 3rd plant with similar wages will probably be closing early next year.

And like clockwork 2 Walmarts have opened in the last year with a 3rd one planned for next year.

Total employment will have increased a bit in that trade off.

your estimation presumes that the quantity of employees is the same which it could be but, with the walmarts moving in unless there is a large increase in spending the stores where folks used to shop will lose employees. Maybe one for every one hired by walmart.. so My calc. suggests a net loss equal to the loss of the three plants and their suppliers. Not to mention the reduction of disposable income that wipes out the auto, appliance, movie houses, etc. etc..
Wal mart moving into a thriving community that is growing makes sense.. but, to move into one that is gonna have no working people and declining makes little sense..

 

Wolfdog

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yeah having the utilities go out of business because they can't pass resource price increases on would sure help the economy
rolleye.gif
[/quote]

There has to be some middle ground. In my area there is going to be both a %40 increase in natural gas prices and a hike in electricity costs. They should be looking for creative ways to shield the consumer. I do find it very odd that they would pick winter to ask/initiate these increases, especially since most houses built in the city are heated by natural gas, not electric. Public utilities are some of the last vestiges of true monopolic power. They really don't have to compete with anyone else here, and haven't a clue how to run thier business. If they did compete, they would surely want to keep thier customers. Since most would abandon ship, and move towards a cheaper alternative.
 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: Wolfdog
yeah having the utilities go out of business because they can't pass resource price increases on would sure help the economy
rolleye.gif

There has to be some middle ground. In my area there is going to be both a %40 increase in natural gas prices and a hike in electricity costs. They should be looking for creative ways to shield the consumer. I do find it very odd that they would pick winter to ask/initiate these increases, especially since most houses built in the city are heated by natural gas, not electric. Public utilities are some of the last vestiges of true monopolic power. They really don't have to compete with anyone else here, and haven't a clue how to run thier business. If they did compete, they would surely want to keep thier customers. Since most would abandon ship, and move towards a cheaper alternative.

quite a few generators run on gas. local utilities are very highly regulated. most have set profit margins from the state board regulating them.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Since George W. Bush became president, the country has lost 2.7 million payroll jobs. Even the most optimistic White House economists do not believe that so many new jobs can be found between now and January 2005. So this will almost certainly be the first presidential term since Herbert Hoover's in which fewer Americans were at work at the end of the four years than at the beginning, even though other presidents experienced recessions deeper than Mr. Bush's.

This is just an amazing statistic.

How is simple. Shut the borders down and anything comming in get a 100% tarriff slapped on it. Bankers will get pissed initially be we'll all be gainfully employed so screw them. This is how we funded and built this nation from the 1700's until the 1970's from a bunch of broke dirt farmers making nothing, importing everything, into the worlds envy. Now we are liquidating everything. Foreigners own our stock market with the proceeds WE have given to them for thier goods and we are loosing our sovernty and productivity which in bad for your average american and a breech of national security.