I pretty much confine myself to the FACT that Gore won to those occasions where somebody says that Bush won get over it, or Bush was elected, both of which are patently false, and also to those occasions where somebody implies that Americans are morons because they elected Bush, because they didn't, or that Americans deserve what happens to them because we elected a moron. In such instances it's important to reaffirm the real truth least people take themselves and Bush too seriously. Gore won, Bush was selected, don't forget it.
PS. I forgot one other place where these facts are important. Republicans have a profound fantasy that they are the party of character. Bush sent teams of rabid dogs to Florida to appear like civilians protesting the Democrats attempt to get the real winner the vote. These swine now have important jobs in the administration. Bush stole the election by legal maneuvers to prevent the vote from being counted. He has the exact same character that Clinton did getting a blow job, and he cost America it's real president. The disaster that now unfolds in the economy, the money going to the rich and connected, to the oil industry and business is the result. The damage from the crimes make Clinton a small time perv by comparison. American soldiers died because Bush has no problem at all with lies.
PS. I forgot one other place where these facts are important. Republicans have a profound fantasy that they are the party of character. Bush sent teams of rabid dogs to Florida to appear like civilians protesting the Democrats attempt to get the real winner the vote. These swine now have important jobs in the administration. Bush stole the election by legal maneuvers to prevent the vote from being counted. He has the exact same character that Clinton did getting a blow job, and he cost America it's real president. The disaster that now unfolds in the economy, the money going to the rich and connected, to the oil industry and business is the result. The damage from the crimes make Clinton a small time perv by comparison. American soldiers died because Bush has no problem at all with lies.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Thanks for the after lunch laugh
I think I ate a little too much and I heard that laughing burns alot of calories - please keep it up so I can work off the rest of lunch too CkG
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
CAD,
Thanks for the after lunch laugh I think I ate a little too much and I heard that laughing burns alot of calories - please keep it up so I can work off the rest of lunch too
CkG[/quote]
Did you ever get a chance to read the link I posted for the US Commission on Civil Rights? In one of the reports to Justice and President she outlined all the issues that occured in florida seemingly designed to disenfranchise those voters (in districts heavily democratic) who would have supported Gore. The poll workers said they never saw anything like it before. Witness after witness described how hundreds were turned away. Sec of State there... said basically that it was not her job (under oath). No other state reported any thing any where near as bad as Florida. That is why the Commission held hearings and all. I think the report indicates the number of Gore likely voters to be disenfranchised ran into the high thousands... one place estimated 15000. Bush won the state... or it was determined to be so by the USSC. but, there were some really questionable issues taking place there.
USCCR
Thanks for the after lunch laugh
I think I ate a little too much and I heard that laughing burns alot of calories - please keep it up so I can work off the rest of lunch too CkG[/quote]
Did you ever get a chance to read the link I posted for the US Commission on Civil Rights? In one of the reports to Justice and President she outlined all the issues that occured in florida seemingly designed to disenfranchise those voters (in districts heavily democratic) who would have supported Gore. The poll workers said they never saw anything like it before. Witness after witness described how hundreds were turned away. Sec of State there... said basically that it was not her job (under oath). No other state reported any thing any where near as bad as Florida. That is why the Commission held hearings and all. I think the report indicates the number of Gore likely voters to be disenfranchised ran into the high thousands... one place estimated 15000. Bush won the state... or it was determined to be so by the USSC. but, there were some really questionable issues taking place there.
USCCR
Don't forget, HJ, that the ballots that actually did get cast were recounted across the whole state. Gore won without worring about how many people were turned away. He got the majority of real legal votes that were actually cast. That's why Bush had to spto the recount. They knew the real count. They knew Gore won. Stop the count, stop the count, stop the count. That's how Bush won.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
My point in the post preceeding this is that if there were 14th ammendment issues that the USSC held violated the Constitution why were none of the disenfranchisement issues litagated? The answer is sadly that the issue would have had to be litigated in Florida courts and Federal courts and we would not have had a president until 2010 and Clinton could have declared a Nationa Emergency and remained in office... I think he has that power (the president, that is) subject to Congressional ok, I think.... and Gore the VP would have eventually become president some time....
You don't buy this do you?
You don't buy this do you?
CADdy, have a pretzel. It will remind you of the biggest joke. Too bad you're not a soldier. You could have not only lost some weight, you could even have lost your head. AHAHAHAHAHAHA Isn't disaster funny.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
So you are saying that notwithstanding the litigation to the USSC, had the count continued Gore would have won. Therefore, to stop the count was an unconstitutional act deemed appropriate by the USSC 5-4 decision which fell on political philosophy lines. Thus the USSC's political make up gave them (ther USSC) super votes in the election in Florida's sovereign state where they were not citizens.
What? I don't understand. How could... OHHHH! I see. You're an idiot. You either think we live in a Democracy or you think that the election would have went Gore's way if the votes were allowed to be recounted a fourth time.
Let me be clear on two things:
1) This is NOT a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic.
2) The media and many other political watchdog groups recounted the votes in Florida. Bush did win down there.
I'm so sorry you're in denial. Just please, for everyone else's sake, don't ever teach history.
I assume you got that from some conspiracy theory site, right? How come all the media sources that recounted ballots said that the final count put GWB ahead? Were they some kind of crazy right-wing media people? I didn't know they existed outside Foxnews.
What? I don't understand. How could... OHHHH! I see. You're an idiot. You either think we live in a Democracy or you think that the election would have went Gore's way if the votes were allowed to be recounted a fourth time.
Let me be clear on two things:
1) This is NOT a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic.
2) The media and many other political watchdog groups recounted the votes in Florida. Bush did win down there.
I'm so sorry you're in denial. Just please, for everyone else's sake, don't ever teach history.
-----------
I assume you got that from some conspiracy theory site, right? How come all the media sources that recounted ballots said that the final count put GWB ahead? Were they some kind of crazy right-wing media people? I didn't know they existed outside Foxnews.
---------
-------------
Oh, man, ignorant patsy 10 thousand and 3 crawls out of the woodwork. What you should assume is that you are totally ignorant on the subject and everything you tried to pin on me is exactly what is true of you. Poor deluded soul.
-----------
---------
Actually, HJ, what I would say is really a bit simpler. In a Presidential election, the person getting the majority of votes in a state wins the election. There is no other acceptable criterion for picking a winner. You have to get the most votes state wide. That is obvious and that is fundamental. There was never any alternative in Florida but to recount the state ballot by ballot, the whole state and nothing but the state. That is what an election is, the will of the people, not the will of the courts, the candidates or anybody but the people. Everybody from day one, Gore, Bush, the state Supreme court and the Supreme Thwart as you so aptly called it should have demanded one and one thing only. Count the God Damned votes. The state wide real total was arrived at much later after exhaustive certified examination of all the votes. Gore got the most total legal votes. He won. He was the guy who should have gotten Florida's 25 electoral votes because he won the actual election.
Naturally people like Ilmater can be forgiven for their ignorance. It wasn't only his own unwillingness to know the truth, he is bathed in a media that also buried the facts. But now that he knows, you can bet your bippy that it won't change his mind and he won't seek out the real facts. People are much more comfortable with their lies. By the way, Il, I've linked to the facts a million and four times. Do your own search for the truth in the one in a million chance you care. Try Gore won in google for fun.
Bush is a disaster.
Let me be clear on two things:
1) This is NOT a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic.
2) The media and many other political watchdog groups recounted the votes in Florida. Bush did win down there.
I'm so sorry you're in denial. Just please, for everyone else's sake, don't ever teach history.
-----------
I assume you got that from some conspiracy theory site, right? How come all the media sources that recounted ballots said that the final count put GWB ahead? Were they some kind of crazy right-wing media people? I didn't know they existed outside Foxnews.
---------
-------------
Oh, man, ignorant patsy 10 thousand and 3 crawls out of the woodwork. What you should assume is that you are totally ignorant on the subject and everything you tried to pin on me is exactly what is true of you. Poor deluded soul.
-----------
---------
Actually, HJ, what I would say is really a bit simpler. In a Presidential election, the person getting the majority of votes in a state wins the election. There is no other acceptable criterion for picking a winner. You have to get the most votes state wide. That is obvious and that is fundamental. There was never any alternative in Florida but to recount the state ballot by ballot, the whole state and nothing but the state. That is what an election is, the will of the people, not the will of the courts, the candidates or anybody but the people. Everybody from day one, Gore, Bush, the state Supreme court and the Supreme Thwart as you so aptly called it should have demanded one and one thing only. Count the God Damned votes. The state wide real total was arrived at much later after exhaustive certified examination of all the votes. Gore got the most total legal votes. He won. He was the guy who should have gotten Florida's 25 electoral votes because he won the actual election.
Naturally people like Ilmater can be forgiven for their ignorance. It wasn't only his own unwillingness to know the truth, he is bathed in a media that also buried the facts. But now that he knows, you can bet your bippy that it won't change his mind and he won't seek out the real facts. People are much more comfortable with their lies. By the way, Il, I've linked to the facts a million and four times. Do your own search for the truth in the one in a million chance you care. Try Gore won in google for fun.
Bush is a disaster.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: HJD1
CAD,
Thanks for the after lunch laugh
CkG
Did you ever get a chance to read the link I posted for the US Commission on Civil Rights? In one of the reports to Justice and President she outlined all the issues that occured in florida seemingly designed to disenfranchise those voters (in districts heavily democratic) who would have supported Gore. The poll workers said they never saw anything like it before. Witness after witness described how hundreds were turned away. Sec of State there... said basically that it was not her job (under oath). No other state reported any thing any where near as bad as Florida. That is why the Commission held hearings and all. I think the report indicates the number of Gore likely voters to be disenfranchised ran into the high thousands... one place estimated 15000. Bush won the state... or it was determined to be so by the USSC. but, there were some really questionable issues taking place there.
USCCR[/quote]
Yes, there are issues with the way Florida's voting system worked and guess what? They tried to fix it, but it still isn't right, look at the last general election(2002). Voting irregularities will happen because of the human factor. Florida didn't have statewide standards for voting so no one will ever know exactly how many votes should or shouldn't have been counted because they all used different standards. To say the standards (or lack there of) only helped Bush is asinine. Now as for "selection" instead of "election"- that is utter BS. The court didn't cast a vote for or against either candidate, it only ruled on the laws that were questioned. The result of the court's vote determined which votes could/couldn't be counted(or recounted). Therefore, the votes allowed to be counted by the court(ie legal votes) resulted in Bush being elected.
I don't doubt that some people feel they were "disenfranchised" and those issues need to be addressed and fixed before the next election(2004), but just because people are too stupid to read a ballot or punch a clean hole - doesn't mean that someone "stole" the election.
Bush won - get over it
CkG
BTW, anyone want to address the fact that I recieve an absentee ballot at my house when infact I never asked for one? Did anyone hear about how it was a plan by the democrats in Iowa to "get out the vote". Talk about "wrong" or "illegal"
I'm ignorant? Moon, seriously, let me explain something easy to you.
The way our founders drew up the constitution, the presidential election was to be decided by individual electoral votes. I don't care what the original intent was (some say it was because they thought the masses were too stupid, but there is much debate over this fact), there is still one great fact. This nation has since changed to an urban culture. More and more of our population moves from the rural areas to the suburbs and cities. Within those cities, many people are like-minded. For instance, in San Francisco, clearly the populace is heavily biased towards the left. however, by and large, the rural areas are Republican (which kind of destroys the whole "Dems help the poor" idea, doesn't it?). There are also states that are biased one way or another. Texas is clearly Republican; California is clearly Democratic.
The nice thing about our system is, it takes away the "group mentality." Even though there happen to be more people in California (and they're given the electoral votes to represent that), they don't fully control the vote. If you're as intelligent as you claim to be, you'll understand that if you are born and grow up in California, you're more likely to be liberal because of the people you are surrounded by. The same goes the other way around for Texas. Surely you wouldn't want a bunch of people to move to Texas and control the vote, would you?
This is the same reason why the county breakdown is interesting (I've seen it a million times before, and no, there are no fancy statistics, just ignorant readers). If the election were determined by the number of counties that you win, Bush would have won in a landslide. The fact is, Gore usually won overwhelmingly in certain counties and lost in many others. This is evidence that would support the claim that cities are more liberal than the countryside. So, because of the way the electoral college works, (thank God!) it's not just the cities that decide our elections. The electoral college gives less-populated areas more of a say in who their president is. I said all through the Florida debacle that no matter who won I didn't want the electoral college to go away because I like how it works. You'll notice that, despite harsh criticism, it still was not changed, and I can assure you it never will be.
Having said all of this, if your argument is that after votes were recounted in Florida Gore won, then explain why every major newspaper reported (in around February or March of 2000) that Bush would have won. Just give me one credible source to the contrary.
I'll also tell you why I flat-out don't believe in some "conspiracy" to turn voters away from polls. Some voters may have not been able to vote. I don't know for sure. What I do know is, in a Presidential election, rarely are states decided by a few thousand votes. No matter how highly democratic these areas were, there's no way a Presidential candidate would risk an entire election just to thwart one or two polling areas in one state. In St. Louis and at least one other city (I've actually put this behind me and moved on with my life, so I don't remember which one), there were a ton of voters turned away from polls. In St. Louis (I lived there during the time, so I know), it was in a highly Republican area! I guess that means that Al Gore personally ordered the polls not to open on time and for the judge to order that they close on time, even though they legally should have stayed open.
The way our founders drew up the constitution, the presidential election was to be decided by individual electoral votes. I don't care what the original intent was (some say it was because they thought the masses were too stupid, but there is much debate over this fact), there is still one great fact. This nation has since changed to an urban culture. More and more of our population moves from the rural areas to the suburbs and cities. Within those cities, many people are like-minded. For instance, in San Francisco, clearly the populace is heavily biased towards the left. however, by and large, the rural areas are Republican (which kind of destroys the whole "Dems help the poor" idea, doesn't it?). There are also states that are biased one way or another. Texas is clearly Republican; California is clearly Democratic.
The nice thing about our system is, it takes away the "group mentality." Even though there happen to be more people in California (and they're given the electoral votes to represent that), they don't fully control the vote. If you're as intelligent as you claim to be, you'll understand that if you are born and grow up in California, you're more likely to be liberal because of the people you are surrounded by. The same goes the other way around for Texas. Surely you wouldn't want a bunch of people to move to Texas and control the vote, would you?
This is the same reason why the county breakdown is interesting (I've seen it a million times before, and no, there are no fancy statistics, just ignorant readers). If the election were determined by the number of counties that you win, Bush would have won in a landslide. The fact is, Gore usually won overwhelmingly in certain counties and lost in many others. This is evidence that would support the claim that cities are more liberal than the countryside. So, because of the way the electoral college works, (thank God!) it's not just the cities that decide our elections. The electoral college gives less-populated areas more of a say in who their president is. I said all through the Florida debacle that no matter who won I didn't want the electoral college to go away because I like how it works. You'll notice that, despite harsh criticism, it still was not changed, and I can assure you it never will be.
Having said all of this, if your argument is that after votes were recounted in Florida Gore won, then explain why every major newspaper reported (in around February or March of 2000) that Bush would have won. Just give me one credible source to the contrary.
I'll also tell you why I flat-out don't believe in some "conspiracy" to turn voters away from polls. Some voters may have not been able to vote. I don't know for sure. What I do know is, in a Presidential election, rarely are states decided by a few thousand votes. No matter how highly democratic these areas were, there's no way a Presidential candidate would risk an entire election just to thwart one or two polling areas in one state. In St. Louis and at least one other city (I've actually put this behind me and moved on with my life, so I don't remember which one), there were a ton of voters turned away from polls. In St. Louis (I lived there during the time, so I know), it was in a highly Republican area! I guess that means that Al Gore personally ordered the polls not to open on time and for the judge to order that they close on time, even though they legally should have stayed open.
Please Moonie give it up. Bush won fair and square even with Gore's attempts at trying to steal the election. It's done, the moron (Gore) lost and we move on. Gore would have done a piss poor job with the presidency if he had won.
------------------------------------------
Hehe I like the '(Gore)' You were right the first time. The moron did wind up in office. Gore, of course, would have done an excellent job and even at 'piss poor' that would be tremendous compared to the disaster we got. If Gore attempted to steal the election, Bush actually did. The wrong guy is in office and boy can you tell that God is mad. Our children will be paying Pharaoh Bush's debt for years and years and years.
------------------------------------------
Hehe I like the '(Gore)' You were right the first time. The moron did wind up in office. Gore, of course, would have done an excellent job and even at 'piss poor' that would be tremendous compared to the disaster we got. If Gore attempted to steal the election, Bush actually did. The wrong guy is in office and boy can you tell that God is mad. Our children will be paying Pharaoh Bush's debt for years and years and years.
dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
Ok Moonie, someday (hopefully soon) you'll wake up from your dreamland and come back to reality. Care to show me proof that Gore did win the election? Since you are the one stating that Bush lost and Gore won, I'd like to see this proof you have in your hands. And I was right the first time, Gore is a moron. Perhaps you shouldn't be a supporter for a guy who will do anything to steal an election?
I can give you a link, but it will do no good. "A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." That's Shakespeare. Imagine, we are just like people four hundred years ago. We just don't want to see what we don't want to see. Truly, we'll see it when we believe it. It's time for etech to show up and ask if Gore wanted a limited recount. Hehe. With enough history people can backpedal forever.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
With enough hate, one can live in the past."
--------------------------------------------
With enough reliving of the past one can conquer hate, but you don't buy that psychobabble stuff do you.
-----------------------------
Thought is the past. Thought is fear. Hate is what happens as you begin to remember fear. The hate you project on me is all your own. But then you don't believe in that psychobabble do you. If the truth were easy, everybody would know.
--------------------------------------------
With enough reliving of the past one can conquer hate, but you don't buy that psychobabble stuff do you.
-----------------------------
Thought is the past. Thought is fear. Hate is what happens as you begin to remember fear. The hate you project on me is all your own. But then you don't believe in that psychobabble do you. If the truth were easy, everybody would know.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Moonbeam,
Did I understand you to suggest:
Pharoah Bush and the Supreme Thwart are;
The foundational building blocks that support the Pyramid of Disaster. Where,
enshrined with in this immense structure are the manuscripts used to redefine the usefullness of mankind's incongruity with reality and that fact's resulting New World Order.
I need to be sure so I can comment.
Did I understand you to suggest:
Pharoah Bush and the Supreme Thwart are;
The foundational building blocks that support the Pyramid of Disaster. Where,
enshrined with in this immense structure are the manuscripts used to redefine the usefullness of mankind's incongruity with reality and that fact's resulting New World Order.
I need to be sure so I can comment.
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