Bush Victory Continues to Bolster Economy

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: irwincur
May I also suggest that the 99.5% of you that have no clue about economics just shut the **** up.

Ugh, i hedge that a few of us in this forum alone have a fairly good understanding of economics, you want to elaborate what assumptions are bad theory, and which comments are contradictory to econ theory?

Thanks 🙂...

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: irwincur
Who's fault is it that Unions have priced US based manufacturing out of existance. The company is not to blame, it is the idiot workers who thinks that their HS drop out asses are good enough to make $24/hr pushing buttons. Well, welcome to the real world. If you want a job, you better have a skill and compete for it. People who cannot, frankly, don't deserve to work.

Blame who is to blame - the greedy Unions and their idiot membership. At some point Unions will make it to the third world, and prices will inflate. Companies will look for cheaper sources. In the end however, wages will begin to increase all over the world, and parity will become much closer.

Ah, so it is better to ship off the jobs to China &c. were poor people will work for slave wages in sweat shop conditions, Poor people, mind you, whose only qualification compared to US workers is that they will work under any conditions for to fend of starvation.

As for your second scenario the US is, and always has been, working very hard to make sure that parity does not come closer.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: BBond
Helping Themselves

By Michael Atkinson

There may not be a more thoroughly ravaged national economy on the planet than Argentina?s?it?s a poster child for IMF wrack and ruin. As revealed in grueling, horrifying detail in Fernando Solanas? 2004 documentary Memoria del Saqueo (shown here only in film festivals), the last 30 years or so have been a relentless litany of bureaucratic power grabs, political lies, privatization sell-offs and insidious opportunism, much of it at the International Monetary Fund?s insistence and due to President Carlos Menem?s bald-faced carpetbagging. In just a few decades a country that boasted South America?s most prosperous middle class was converted into a nation of scrambling beggars, saddled with an excess of 20 percent unemployment and a national bankruptcy that outscaled any other in world history.

Solanas? film may be too outraged and too crystal clear in its history lesson to be released in this country, but in its stead we have Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein?s The Take, which thumbnails the last few years of Argentine economic freefall. In both films, at least, we are witness to footage of street protests so huge and of a boiling citizenry so engaged and aware of the perpetrators of their crisis that we?re given cause to wonder if it?ll take a wholesale economic disaster here before Americans decide to similarly take their lives and livelihoods into their own hands. Most of the Buenos Aires rioters? violence was perpetrated upon ATMs and bank buildings. With four more Bush years ahead, we may not have long to wait.

Lewis and Klein?s movie confronts that reality immediately, introducing us to the ?globalized ghost town? of empty Argentine factories, and reminding us that although this is Buenos Aires, ?it could be anywhere.? The film?s focus, however, is on a movement to reclaim bankrupt factories with collectives formed by the laid-off laborers. It?s such a fantastic scenario, right in the dark heart of Globalization Central, that it seems like a schoolkid?s daydream come true, and the filmmakers are as amazed as we are. The movement itself is not small: Approximately 15,000 workers have ?occupied? some 200 ownerless businesses, from private schools to hotels to the auto parts factory that Klein and Lewis focus on. There, a new collective of unemployed machinists struggles to legitimize itself and obtain a legal right to run the shop. In this dynamic, the workers typically get equal salaries and vote in assemblies on all business dealings.

From every conceivable perspective save that of the companies? old owners, who want their concerns back now that they?re solvent and functioning, the collective model is the optimum manner for human business: fair, inspiring, effectual, non-exploitative.

?I don?t know why it was so hard for the bosses,? a middle-aged member of a suit-making company collective says about running a profitable enterprise. ?You just add and subtract.?

Lewis and Klein?s modest movie has an embarrassingly patronizing tone but a triumphant arc: Among other happy endings, the seminal collective of middle-aged seamstresses that runs the Brukman suit manufacturer weather a lockout and a harrowing street clash with police before winning back their factory. Because it?s a movement that began from the ground up, like unions, this proto-Communist structure has a chance of becoming an integral part of the Third World landscape. But it?s also dismayingly vulnerable to government intervention and steamrolling international capitalism; one doubts that the WTO will let the Argentine ?National Movement of Recovered Factories? get too large, too pervasive or too successful.

Still, Argentines have reason to be proud of their productive resistance, if not for everything else: As Lewis and Klein show, when Menem arose from his lair to run for a third presidency?this after having sold every imaginable resource and service to foreign companies so that even the street signs have MasterCard logos on them?he almost won. Like Americans, Argentines are susceptible to the hard sell, to messianic advertising and comforting untruths. But in being pushed to the wall, they may have come up with the answer to the industrial working world?s prayers.

The US, by means of the proxy sharks the IMF and the World Bank, has looted the economies of Argentina, Brazil and Mexico. Sure the IMF and World Bank claim their snake oil medicine is wonderful but if you look at the results of their practices their patients tend to die very messy deaths.

The US looted the economy of Russia in the 90's and has reduced it to a raw material provider. Russia is in ruins for the forseeable future. China, of course, is the next target even as the US plays hardball for control over the natural resources of the Middle East. Historically the US is one giant economic wrecking ball for up and coming economies that threaten to achieve independence through working it's own resources and raw materials into high value products.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Strk
Could someone post a link that describes which jobs are created? I keep seeing numbers thrown out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing more definitive evidence. 🙂

Bump for an answer to this question!!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Strk
Could someone post a link that describes which jobs are created? I keep seeing numbers thrown out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing more definitive evidence. 🙂

Bump for an answer to this question!!

linkage

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Strk
Could someone post a link that describes which jobs are created? I keep seeing numbers thrown out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing more definitive evidence. 🙂

Bump for an answer to this question!!

linkage

Wow is that an ugly page.

Anyways, I'll see if I can find the numbers I want.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Strk
Could someone post a link that describes which jobs are created? I keep seeing numbers thrown out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing more definitive evidence. 🙂

Bump for an answer to this question!!

linkage

Wow is that an ugly page.

Anyways, I'll see if I can find the numbers I want.

Post if you find.
Like # of government jobs...as i can see the deficit growth equating to job growth.
If your economy isn't making jobs, make your own 🙂

 

[gopunk]

i don't know about job growth, but i don't see how he is doing much for the economy when we are getting further and further into debt with no end in sight.

 

[earthman]

Who's fault is it that Unions have priced US based manufacturing out of existance. The company is not to blame, it is the idiot workers who thinks that their HS drop out asses are good enough to make $24/hr pushing buttons. Well, welcome to the real world. If you want a job, you better have a skill and compete for it. People who cannot, frankly, don't deserve to work.

It's a myth that most manufacturing jobs are or ever were unionized, for one. Second, most jobs that are still unionized are skilled trades or danger-oriented jobs like mining, etc. How do you figure that "high-priced" workers have put themselves out of business. I almost never hear any criticism of high-priced management executives, most of whom make many times the pay of their counterparts overseas. Its interesting how many self-righteous arrogant people I encounter have no problem with their complicated and expensive SUV being built by "unskilled" (unskilled = doesn't speak english as first language, has brown skin) people who make $1.00 an hour, and serviced by people making $7.00 an hour. It seems that any job where you actually use your hands is now considered "unskilled" and not worth preserving or protecting those who do it. To those who dismiss these workers as "undeserving", is this work you can do yourself? That you would want to? That you have time to? What kind of world do you people envision? One where everybody works for minimum (except you)?

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: irwincur
Who's fault is it that Unions have priced US based manufacturing out of existance. The company is not to blame, it is the idiot workers who thinks that their HS drop out asses are good enough to make $24/hr pushing buttons. Well, welcome to the real world. If you want a job, you better have a skill and compete for it. People who cannot, frankly, don't deserve to work.

Blame who is to blame - the greedy Unions and their idiot membership. At some point Unions will make it to the third world, and prices will inflate. Companies will look for cheaper sources. In the end however, wages will begin to increase all over the world, and parity will become much closer.

May I also suggest that the 99.5% of you that have no clue about economics just shut the **** up.

WOW what a stupid post !!!!!

Do you realize the salary of CEO's is outpacing the salary of union people. and you blame the unions ?

If it was not for the unions the benifits of the white collar workers would not be where they are today "trickle up 😉 )

You might know a little about economics but you dont know anything about what is going on in the world.

 

[TuxDave]

Wait wait.... so before when we were losing jobs, that wasn't Bush's fault. But now that we're getting jobs, it's Bush's credit? Nice....

 

[Aimster]

I grew .5 the last few months. Bush is God.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Strk
Could someone post a link that describes which jobs are created? I keep seeing numbers thrown out there, but I wouldn't mind seeing more definitive evidence. 🙂

Bump for an answer to this question!!

Service Service Service, low wage jobs at Retail, Food etc.

The new great expectations of America. Should be used to it by now.

The amzaingthing about it is how the FLL's say it is high paying jobs and highest wages ever.

Whatever, it has worked for them and will continue to work. Have to be happy about it.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Wait wait.... so before when we were losing jobs, that wasn't Bush's fault. But now that we're getting jobs, it's Bush's credit? Nice....

Well since he took all the blame for it, it seems reasonable to give him credit.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Wait wait.... so before when we were losing jobs, that wasn't Bush's fault. But now that we're getting jobs, it's Bush's credit? Nice....

Well since he took all the blame for it, it seems reasonable to give him credit.

 

[BBond]

The thinking that got us into the economic mess we're in today.

Enron accounting for Social Security?

President Bush and his allies are pondering an ingenious way to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars without widening the gargantuan budget deficit: pretend we didn't borrow it.

Skilled government accountants would put the borrowed billions "off budget." That way, the deficit wouldn't get bigger. (In lay terms, this is like buying a Lincoln Navigator and explaining to your spouse that it isn't really in the garage.)

These "off-budget" bucks could help finance Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" of Social Security. Under it, younger workers could put a portion of their Social Security deductions into private accounts.

That would reduce the funds available for paying current and future retirees, but the magic money could make up that difference.

This is particularly exciting news at a time when the deficit is growing, the dollar is shrinking, pensions are failing, we're buying far more from foreigners than we sell to them, Alan Greenspan's doomsaying is almost in English, and overseas wimps are starting to wonder whether it's wise to invest their money in a financial house of cards.

Aw, don't fret, foreigners. We're Americans. We know how to live beyond our means.

Or pretend to.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BBond
The thinking that got us into the economic mess we're in today.

Enron accounting for Social Security?

President Bush and his allies are pondering an ingenious way to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars without widening the gargantuan budget deficit: pretend we didn't borrow it.

Skilled government accountants would put the borrowed billions "off budget." That way, the deficit wouldn't get bigger. (In lay terms, this is like buying a Lincoln Navigator and explaining to your spouse that it isn't really in the garage.)

These "off-budget" bucks could help finance Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" of Social Security. Under it, younger workers could put a portion of their Social Security deductions into private accounts.

That would reduce the funds available for paying current and future retirees, but the magic money could make up that difference.

This is particularly exciting news at a time when the deficit is growing, the dollar is shrinking, pensions are failing, we're buying far more from foreigners than we sell to them, Alan Greenspan's doomsaying is almost in English, and overseas wimps are starting to wonder whether it's wise to invest their money in a financial house of cards.

Aw, don't fret, foreigners. We're Americans. We know how to live beyond our means.

Or pretend to.

enron accounting for social security would be an improvement.!

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: BBond
The thinking that got us into the economic mess we're in today.

Enron accounting for Social Security?

President Bush and his allies are pondering an ingenious way to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars without widening the gargantuan budget deficit: pretend we didn't borrow it.

Skilled government accountants would put the borrowed billions "off budget." That way, the deficit wouldn't get bigger. (In lay terms, this is like buying a Lincoln Navigator and explaining to your spouse that it isn't really in the garage.)

These "off-budget" bucks could help finance Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" of Social Security. Under it, younger workers could put a portion of their Social Security deductions into private accounts.

That would reduce the funds available for paying current and future retirees, but the magic money could make up that difference.

This is particularly exciting news at a time when the deficit is growing, the dollar is shrinking, pensions are failing, we're buying far more from foreigners than we sell to them, Alan Greenspan's doomsaying is almost in English, and overseas wimps are starting to wonder whether it's wise to invest their money in a financial house of cards.

Aw, don't fret, foreigners. We're Americans. We know how to live beyond our means.

Or pretend to.

enron accounting for social security would be an improvement.!

To a very real extent, we are already using Enron-like accounting for Social Security. That's a big part of the problem. Handing Wall Street a trillion-dollar windfall is NOT going to improve the situation for most Americans. It will be a great boon to wealthy investors, however.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: BBond
The thinking that got us into the economic mess we're in today.

Enron accounting for Social Security?

President Bush and his allies are pondering an ingenious way to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars without widening the gargantuan budget deficit: pretend we didn't borrow it.

Skilled government accountants would put the borrowed billions "off budget." That way, the deficit wouldn't get bigger. (In lay terms, this is like buying a Lincoln Navigator and explaining to your spouse that it isn't really in the garage.)

These "off-budget" bucks could help finance Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" of Social Security. Under it, younger workers could put a portion of their Social Security deductions into private accounts.

That would reduce the funds available for paying current and future retirees, but the magic money could make up that difference.

This is particularly exciting news at a time when the deficit is growing, the dollar is shrinking, pensions are failing, we're buying far more from foreigners than we sell to them, Alan Greenspan's doomsaying is almost in English, and overseas wimps are starting to wonder whether it's wise to invest their money in a financial house of cards.

Aw, don't fret, foreigners. We're Americans. We know how to live beyond our means.

Or pretend to.

enron accounting for social security would be an improvement.!

To a very real extent, we are already using Enron-like accounting for Social Security. That's a big part of the problem. Handing Wall Street a trillion-dollar windfall is NOT going to improve the situation for most Americans. It will be a great boon to wealthy investors, however.

It will be a boon to everyone who gets to put some of their money in a private account.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: BBond
The thinking that got us into the economic mess we're in today.

Enron accounting for Social Security?

President Bush and his allies are pondering an ingenious way to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars without widening the gargantuan budget deficit: pretend we didn't borrow it.

Skilled government accountants would put the borrowed billions "off budget." That way, the deficit wouldn't get bigger. (In lay terms, this is like buying a Lincoln Navigator and explaining to your spouse that it isn't really in the garage.)

These "off-budget" bucks could help finance Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" of Social Security. Under it, younger workers could put a portion of their Social Security deductions into private accounts.

That would reduce the funds available for paying current and future retirees, but the magic money could make up that difference.

This is particularly exciting news at a time when the deficit is growing, the dollar is shrinking, pensions are failing, we're buying far more from foreigners than we sell to them, Alan Greenspan's doomsaying is almost in English, and overseas wimps are starting to wonder whether it's wise to invest their money in a financial house of cards.

Aw, don't fret, foreigners. We're Americans. We know how to live beyond our means.

Or pretend to.

enron accounting for social security would be an improvement.!

To a very real extent, we are already using Enron-like accounting for Social Security. That's a big part of the problem. Handing Wall Street a trillion-dollar windfall is NOT going to improve the situation for most Americans. It will be a great boon to wealthy investors, however.

It will be a boon to everyone who gets to put some of their money in a private account.

Maybe, maybe not. Past performance does NOT predict future results.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: BBond
The thinking that got us into the economic mess we're in today.

Enron accounting for Social Security?

President Bush and his allies are pondering an ingenious way to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars without widening the gargantuan budget deficit: pretend we didn't borrow it.

Skilled government accountants would put the borrowed billions "off budget." That way, the deficit wouldn't get bigger. (In lay terms, this is like buying a Lincoln Navigator and explaining to your spouse that it isn't really in the garage.)

These "off-budget" bucks could help finance Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" of Social Security. Under it, younger workers could put a portion of their Social Security deductions into private accounts.

That would reduce the funds available for paying current and future retirees, but the magic money could make up that difference.

This is particularly exciting news at a time when the deficit is growing, the dollar is shrinking, pensions are failing, we're buying far more from foreigners than we sell to them, Alan Greenspan's doomsaying is almost in English, and overseas wimps are starting to wonder whether it's wise to invest their money in a financial house of cards.

Aw, don't fret, foreigners. We're Americans. We know how to live beyond our means.

Or pretend to.

enron accounting for social security would be an improvement.!

To a very real extent, we are already using Enron-like accounting for Social Security. That's a big part of the problem. Handing Wall Street a trillion-dollar windfall is NOT going to improve the situation for most Americans. It will be a great boon to wealthy investors, however.

It will be a boon to everyone who gets to put some of their money in a private account.

Maybe, maybe not. Past performance does NOT predict future results.

True enough, but it is not very hard to beat the return provided my social security. 6% municple bonds would crush the returns from social security.

 

[RealityTime]

I can't understand how you think your economy is improving, you dolllar is at a record low. The euro has bested you and the loonie up here is .86 to your dollar... it's normally .70. Your economy is shot.

 

[SuperTool]

Shouldn't you be worried about the weak dollar, since it makes Canadian goods and services less attractive.

 

[RealityTime]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Shouldn't you be worried about the weak dollar, since it makes Canadian goods and services less attractive.

frankly I don't worry about much. I live in Canada... if I lived in the usa... i would be very worried. :beer:

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: RealityTime

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Shouldn't you be worried about the weak dollar, since it makes Canadian goods and services less attractive.

frankly I don't worry about much. I live in Canada... if I lived in the usa... i would be very worried. :beer:

About what? US being more price competitive?