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Bush vetoes child healthcare again.
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all due respect, but that's bull shit.
the reason the dems "have a hardon" about the tobacco tax is because of spending rules that they enacted, unlike the previous congress, who would have passed the extra spending bill on top of a tax break with a side of increased military spending and subsidies to oil companies to go along with it.
so the money has to come from "somewhere," and a tobacco tax seems as good a place as any. sure, that money would go away if people woke up one day and all magically stopped smoking cigarettes, but if that were to happen, I'd have to imagine that health care costs themselves would plummet as the myriad of health problems associated with smoking were to suddenly vanish.
as far as the morality of it goes, it seems no different than using lottery and gambling money/taxes to fund state education system.
Vic
Elite Member
Yes, it is. Everything is a choice.
Why (in my life) have I had to choose between paying my dentist(s) thousands of dollars (even after insurance) or having sh!tty, rotten, unhealthy teeth?
Why do people have to choose between cheeseburgers and caviar?
You analogy was a false dilemma, that's all I was trying to point out. There is a benefit in promoting a healthy society, but your OMG moral dilemma! is bullsh!t.
The flip side of a state funded system:
Blatant Medicare fraud costs taxpayers billions
To quote:
"Officials say outrageous fraud schemes are 'off the charts'"
"Law enforcement officials said it's just one of the many widespread, organized and lucrative schemes to bilk Medicare out of an estimated $60 billion dollars a year ? a staggering cost borne by American taxpayers."
Now, if only they would plug this $60 billion dollar leak for just a year, why, they'll be able to fund the entire child health care expansion program being talked about for nearly a decade!
Just goes to show how broken big govt. is.
Blatant Medicare fraud costs taxpayers billions
To quote:
"Officials say outrageous fraud schemes are 'off the charts'"
"Law enforcement officials said it's just one of the many widespread, organized and lucrative schemes to bilk Medicare out of an estimated $60 billion dollars a year ? a staggering cost borne by American taxpayers."
Now, if only they would plug this $60 billion dollar leak for just a year, why, they'll be able to fund the entire child health care expansion program being talked about for nearly a decade!
Just goes to show how broken big govt. is.
I think this thread really gets to the heart of what's truly wrong with american politics....most people don't care and those who do form their opinions from little to no information about what they're arguing.
First of all, though off topic, this is a PERFECT example:
The current death toll from the september 11 attacks stands at 2974 people ......why would you more than DOUBLE the number? ignorance? or would you have liked to see more people die so it would be easier to play politics with their demise?
Also, 9/11 has absolutely nothing to do with iraq.... that's a fact. The majority of the hijackers were from our "friend" saudi arabia and NONE were from iraq.
As for SCHIP ....the program mainly provides for children of working parents who can't afford healthcare. For example if they work somewhere, like walmart, where they don't get employer sponsored health insurance or if they work two part time jobs and don't get benefits from either. Of course the alternative would be to buy insurance on the individual market but if you are struggling to barely make ends meet there is no way you can afford 6000 to 11000 dollars for health insurance per year.
Also, the program gives states the right to decide who is eligible and the federal funds are there to match state funds.....so the federal government isnt really paying the bill...its shared between the federal and state governments.
Most importantly though, is that children are very cost-effective when it comes to healthcare. You get alot for what you put in since they don't incur significant healthcare costs. Also, to continue the program as it is now its funding needs to be increased almost 3 times the $5 billion that bush is proposing! And if the program doesnt get funded then millions of children will loose their healthcare and become uninsured.
The only reason that bush and the few republicans who still support him are worried is because the program works TOO well and noone is making an ungodly profit off of it!!! The program is by no means funding adult healthcare ...though some states do extend coverage to parents this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not we should fund the program and it is also so rare that it should be a non-issue. Also having a healthy parent makes for a healthy child! Furthermore, it isn't a one way ticket to socialized medicine... this is a sill scare tactic that people with no argument are buying into....we aren't just going to drop the employer sponsored system we have now overnight...its impossible. As for the cigarette tax, the only reason the democrats are doing this is because a sin tax (like those on tobacco, alcohol, porn) are more acceptable to some republicans than a *GASP* tax increase.
First of all, though off topic, this is a PERFECT example:
The current death toll from the september 11 attacks stands at 2974 people ......why would you more than DOUBLE the number? ignorance? or would you have liked to see more people die so it would be easier to play politics with their demise?
Also, 9/11 has absolutely nothing to do with iraq.... that's a fact. The majority of the hijackers were from our "friend" saudi arabia and NONE were from iraq.
As for SCHIP ....the program mainly provides for children of working parents who can't afford healthcare. For example if they work somewhere, like walmart, where they don't get employer sponsored health insurance or if they work two part time jobs and don't get benefits from either. Of course the alternative would be to buy insurance on the individual market but if you are struggling to barely make ends meet there is no way you can afford 6000 to 11000 dollars for health insurance per year.
Also, the program gives states the right to decide who is eligible and the federal funds are there to match state funds.....so the federal government isnt really paying the bill...its shared between the federal and state governments.
Most importantly though, is that children are very cost-effective when it comes to healthcare. You get alot for what you put in since they don't incur significant healthcare costs. Also, to continue the program as it is now its funding needs to be increased almost 3 times the $5 billion that bush is proposing! And if the program doesnt get funded then millions of children will loose their healthcare and become uninsured.
The only reason that bush and the few republicans who still support him are worried is because the program works TOO well and noone is making an ungodly profit off of it!!! The program is by no means funding adult healthcare ...though some states do extend coverage to parents this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not we should fund the program and it is also so rare that it should be a non-issue. Also having a healthy parent makes for a healthy child! Furthermore, it isn't a one way ticket to socialized medicine... this is a sill scare tactic that people with no argument are buying into....we aren't just going to drop the employer sponsored system we have now overnight...its impossible. As for the cigarette tax, the only reason the democrats are doing this is because a sin tax (like those on tobacco, alcohol, porn) are more acceptable to some republicans than a *GASP* tax increase.
First
Lifer
Think of the children man. The children!
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