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Bush to implement Military draft before he leaves office in 2008?!

Those are not mutually exclusive conditions. Whether he does or not, this adminstration is already more than enough of a nightmare for me. 🙁
 
in many ways Bush has destroyed the traditional volenteer army. I can remember the war protest over the VietNam war that drug on and on. At that time there was a draft that grabbed the poor and those that lost student deferments. The reserve system was regarded as safe refuge which is the route George W. Bush took to avoid being cannon fodder. Nixon bought up much of the opposition to the war by instituting an all volenteer army. Still many Viet Nam Vets didn't get the respect they deserved.--almost like the country blamed them rather than the politicians.

It took nearly 20 years and the Powell doctrine for the army to really rehabiltate their public image. Actions in LYBIA, Panama, Granda, and in gulf war one left almost none to pay with their lives or come home with missing body parts.

A strong reserve system left a core of ready reserve with few more inconvienced than an ocassional weekend spent playing army.---so a citizen could enlist in the reserve and still count on being their for their families.

Then comes this Iraq war------the milirary is stretched then and suddenly those who enlisted in the reserve get clobbered by one year tours that get extended. For every one that dies in Iraq another ten come home with severe physical and emotional wounds. If I do not miss my guess, Bush has already wounded the reserve system almost beyond repair. If the army fails in Iraq---fails to bring Bush the political victory Bush needs, its also my guess that military spending will take a big hit. And the respect a military career should command will also take a hit.

In terms of bringing back a draft, if Bush blows Iraq, he and his ideas will probably be finished for a generation. If Bush does finesess Iraq with some semblance of dignity left,
I doubt the American people will allow him to start another ill advised adventure. The largest downside worry is creating terrorism all over the place as Bush is so great as a terrorist recruitment poster.

As for our military, I am predicting damage lasting at least twenty years as our best young men and women run away from military careers. Really sad when these are our sons and daughters, they pay the price for wars with their bodies, yet the old politicians
who spend them so calliously run for office and beat the war drums.

Its enough to make a maggot gag.

Support out troops and not the commander in chief.
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Listening to Kerry propaganda tapes pre-Election 2004?
Click to expand...

Care to point out something that he talked about that DIDN'T occur?

Seems that every single thing he said Bush would do if re-elected, he has.
 
Not unless he wants the Republicans to lose their majority in the house, senate, white house, households, businesses, and texas.
 
Can the left please give it up. We know that all of the pushes to draft are fueled by the left. You know - the old make everything into Vietnam game.

God, talk about trying to relive the glory days. The left is just f-cking PATHETIC.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
in many ways Bush has destroyed the traditional volenteer army. I can remember the war protest over the VietNam war that drug on and on. At that time there was a draft that grabbed the poor and those that lost student deferments. The reserve system was regarded as safe refuge which is the route George W. Bush took to avoid being cannon fodder. Nixon bought up much of the opposition to the war by instituting an all volenteer army. Still many Viet Nam Vets didn't get the respect they deserved.--almost like the country blamed them rather than the politicians.

It took nearly 20 years and the Powell doctrine for the army to really rehabiltate their public image. Actions in LYBIA, Panama, Granda, and in gulf war one left almost none to pay with their lives or come home with missing body parts.

A strong reserve system left a core of ready reserve with few more inconvienced than an ocassional weekend spent playing army.---so a citizen could enlist in the reserve and still count on being their for their families.

Then comes this Iraq war------the milirary is stretched then and suddenly those who enlisted in the reserve get clobbered by one year tours that get extended. For every one that dies in Iraq another ten come home with severe physical and emotional wounds. If I do not miss my guess, Bush has already wounded the reserve system almost beyond repair. If the army fails in Iraq---fails to bring Bush the political victory Bush needs, its also my guess that military spending will take a big hit. And the respect a military career should command will also take a hit.

In terms of bringing back a draft, if Bush blows Iraq, he and his ideas will probably be finished for a generation. If Bush does finesess Iraq with some semblance of dignity left,
I doubt the American people will allow him to start another ill advised adventure. The largest downside worry is creating terrorism all over the place as Bush is so great as a terrorist recruitment poster.

As for our military, I am predicting damage lasting at least twenty years as our best young men and women run away from military careers. Really sad when these are our sons and daughters, they pay the price for wars with their bodies, yet the old politicians
who spend them so calliously run for office and beat the war drums.

Its enough to make a maggot gag.

Support out troops and not the commander in chief.
Click to expand...

indeed..... we can see that in the statistics of how the armed forces is lacking new recruits to meet the monthly quota.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
in many ways Bush has destroyed the traditional volenteer army. I can remember the war protest over the VietNam war that drug on and on. At that time there was a draft that grabbed the poor and those that lost student deferments. The reserve system was regarded as safe refuge which is the route George W. Bush took to avoid being cannon fodder. Nixon bought up much of the opposition to the war by instituting an all volenteer army. Still many Viet Nam Vets didn't get the respect they deserved.--almost like the country blamed them rather than the politicians.

It took nearly 20 years and the Powell doctrine for the army to really rehabiltate their public image. Actions in LYBIA, Panama, Granda, and in gulf war one left almost none to pay with their lives or come home with missing body parts.

A strong reserve system left a core of ready reserve with few more inconvienced than an ocassional weekend spent playing army.---so a citizen could enlist in the reserve and still count on being their for their families.

Then comes this Iraq war------the milirary is stretched then and suddenly those who enlisted in the reserve get clobbered by one year tours that get extended. For every one that dies in Iraq another ten come home with severe physical and emotional wounds. If I do not miss my guess, Bush has already wounded the reserve system almost beyond repair. If the army fails in Iraq---fails to bring Bush the political victory Bush needs, its also my guess that military spending will take a big hit. And the respect a military career should command will also take a hit.

In terms of bringing back a draft, if Bush blows Iraq, he and his ideas will probably be finished for a generation. If Bush does finesess Iraq with some semblance of dignity left,
I doubt the American people will allow him to start another ill advised adventure. The largest downside worry is creating terrorism all over the place as Bush is so great as a terrorist recruitment poster.

As for our military, I am predicting damage lasting at least twenty years as our best young men and women run away from military careers. Really sad when these are our sons and daughters, they pay the price for wars with their bodies, yet the old politicians
who spend them so calliously run for office and beat the war drums.

Its enough to make a maggot gag.

Support out troops and not the commander in chief.
Click to expand...
nice post.

 
To JS 80,

Who asked how many died in VietNam vs Iraq.

AS I recall some 58,000 US troops died in Nam.

And its about 2100 in Iraq and rising.

In terms of non-US personnel-------I have seen estimates as high as a half a million civilian and North Vietmese deaths in Nam.

In Iraq, its certainly close to a 100,000 and few of those are insurgents.---estimates vary.

Ain't war grand adventure?
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Can the left please give it up. We know that all of the pushes to draft are fueled by the left. You know - the old make everything into Vietnam game.

God, talk about trying to relive the glory days. The left is just f-cking PATHETIC.
Click to expand...

I don't know, you righties seem to be doing a pretty good job of trying to relive Vietnam all by yourselves. And I'm not just talking about the truly astounding incompetence at running a war, I'm talking about the fact that you guys don't seem to realize that the anti-war people aren't the same anti-war people of the old days. The anti-Vietnam hippies were easy to fight (literally as well, I bet you folks would LOVE another Kent State...be honest now). But times change, you guys are so busy slapping the ghosts of the Vietnam protestors around that you don't seem to notice that us lefties have moved on.
 
vietnam: as lemon said: 58,000 to 60,000 died with some 350,000 casualties. all stretched out over some 12 years. vietnamese deaths (north and south) range from 1 to 2 million.

Iraq: Total coalition deaths American: 2178 British: 98 other: 103 (
Australia 1
Bulgaria 13
Denmark 2
El Salvador 2
Estonia 2
Hungary 1
Italy 27
Kazakhstan 1
Latvia 1
Netherlands 2
Poland 17
Slovakia 3
Spain 11
Thailand 2
Ukraine 18)

Total coalition casualties American: 15,955 or 16,155 ( i just found the other one) i dont' have casualties for the others, i apologize. but i can imagine they rest in the hundreds and possibly the low thousands, though i truly don't know.

here is an intersting comparison of the vietnam casualties and the iraq war casualties by month here: us deaths in vietnam and iraq comparison by month


link for iraqi civilians killed that link shows and min and max civilian body count in iraq.

yeah, i have a bit too much time on my hands, but i hope that helps a bit (not trying to upstage you lemon, just trying to help out :😉

and no, i don't think that the draft shall be enacted. one, i don't feel its warranted, and two i don't think bush is stupid enough to even try and get the american people or congress to go along with it.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
To JS 80,

Who asked how many died in VietNam vs Iraq.

AS I recall some 58,000 US troops died in Nam.

And its about 2100 in Iraq and rising.

In terms of non-US personnel-------I have seen estimates as high as a half a million civilian and North Vietmese deaths in Nam.

In Iraq, its certainly close to a 100,000 and few of those are insurgents.---estimates vary.

Ain't war grand adventure?
Click to expand...

So we shouldn't have joined WWII when Hitler started invading Europe right?
Or Korea so it wouldn't become communist (imagine all of Korea being like NK today)?
Or stop Yugoslavia from wiping out the Albanians?
Or get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan?

My point is instead of saying War sucks W is dumb Cheney is evil Oil for Blood give peace a chance, why not debate why War A is worth it/not worth it for the long run?

PS that's 100k casualty figure is not true.
 
To addinator,

Great post------I was just using failable memory.

I shall consider myself upstaged in a good way.-----thanks.

Regardless of precise number alot of deaths but still the same bottom line----how many must die for the ego's of old men. Be they combatents or just co-laterial damage innocents.

Some of my high school classmates names are chiseled into that granite wall in Washington.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
To addinator,

Great post------I was just using failable memory.

I shall consider myself upstaged in a good way.-----thanks.

Regardless of precise number alot of deaths but still the same bottom line----how many must die for the ego's of old men. Be they combatents or just co-laterial damage innocents.

Some of my high school classmates names are chiseled into that granite wall in Washington.
Click to expand...

How many kurds and shiites were mass murdered under Saddam?
 
To JS80 who has raised two valid questions.

1. How do you decide which war is worth fighting and which is not?
2. How many Kurds and Shites were murdered under Saddam?

In all due respects, these are good questions but its very late now--will try to take a stab at it in the morning.--------but I do promise it will entail another unraised point about how Bush has killed the American military for some time to come.
 
a draft still seems to be a bit extreme, however i feel as has been pointed out that it may become less so as military contracts become stricter and stricter to keep those serving in for longer terms, thus causing less kids to sign up. apparently 18 year olds don't mind four years, but if they have the fine print read to them that their 5th and 6th years are active duty too (if it comes to that), they may think twice.
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Care to point out something that he talked about that DIDN'T occur?

Seems that every single thing he said Bush would do if re-elected, he has.
Click to expand...

Sure. Kerry told us Bush and Co. had some secret plan to reinstate the draft right after the election. Well?
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't know, you righties seem to be doing a pretty good job of trying to relive Vietnam all by yourselves. And I'm not just talking about the truly astounding incompetence at running a war, I'm talking about the fact that you guys don't seem to realize that the anti-war people aren't the same anti-war people of the old days. The anti-Vietnam hippies were easy to fight (literally as well, I bet you folks would LOVE another Kent State...be honest now). But times change, you guys are so busy slapping the ghosts of the Vietnam protestors around that you don't seem to notice that us lefties have moved on.
Click to expand...

LOL ... As I recall vividly, the ones trying to equate Iraq with Vietnam are (and have been consistently) lefties with an agenda. You know, John "Our Troops Are Terrorizing Women And Children In The Dark Of Night" Kerry, and Ted "Don't Ask About My Drunk Driving" Kennedy?

Sadly, many of those anti-war people of "old" are the same ones trying the same nonsense today. Fortunately, the American people will not allow propaganda to defeat us for a second time.
 
I don't know. I guess it depends on how old his daughters are, if he can get thru a draft bill allowing the rich to buy their way out of the draft and whether or not he can blame it on the Democrats.
 
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