Bush to borrow $1-2 TRILLION for Social Security reform

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: SuperTool
But I am for privatizing SS to get rid of the regressive payroll tax. It's just that when it comes down to it, if my stocks don't make it when I retire, the government better help my old @ss out. Call me a commie all you want.

Actually, I think that's worse than being a communist.

I am gonna vote my self interest, not someone's ideology. You want to let me invest my payroll taxes, great, I am voting for that. You want to take away my SS benefit, I am voting against that. I was voting for fiscal responsibility, but you Republicans have convinced me to vote for #1, me

I'm not a Republican. But your commments remind me of the quote "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

That's exactly why we have the deficits we have today (and have accumulated over time).

Much of this can be laid to blame on the progressive income tax. When 50% of the population only pay 4% of income tax bill, they will vote themselves the treasury.

It's not them voting, it the elites in congress.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: SuperTool
But I am for privatizing SS to get rid of the regressive payroll tax. It's just that when it comes down to it, if my stocks don't make it when I retire, the government better help my old @ss out. Call me a commie all you want.

Actually, I think that's worse than being a communist.

I am gonna vote my self interest, not someone's ideology. You want to let me invest my payroll taxes, great, I am voting for that. You want to take away my SS benefit, I am voting against that. I was voting for fiscal responsibility, but you Republicans have convinced me to vote for #1, me

I'm not a Republican. But your commments remind me of the quote "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

That's exactly why we have the deficits we have today (and have accumulated over time).

Much of this can be laid to blame on the progressive income tax. When 50% of the population only pay 4% of income tax bill, they will vote themselves the treasury.

It's not them voting, it the elites in congress.

Who do you think votes for them elites in congress?

 

[Jhhnn]

From charrison-

Who do you think votes for them elites in congress?

The current cut taxes and spend more money crowd? You did, and CsG, and LMK, and the rest of the rightwing crowd. They lie to your face, stroke your emotions, so you vote for 'em, anyway.

This whole bit of dragging the income tax issue into the SS discussion is diversionary, at best. SS is a regressive tax, no income above $87K is taxed for that purpose... the Trust contributed ~$150B to the general fund in 2003, and is owed over $1.5T. To put it in CsG's terms, it's the General Fund that's been sucking on the SS Trust's teat for the last 20 years, and not the other way around...

For those of you who want some reliable numbers about the reality of risking your entire retirement in tne market, check out the IRA 401K/ 403B calculator at this site-

http://www.banksite.com/index1.html

Once you've entered reasonable numbers, what you find is all you'll get from schemes like CsG's is more governmental debt, and greater risk for your own retirement...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From charrison-

Who do you think votes for them elites in congress?

The current cut taxes and spend more money crowd? You did, and CsG, and LMK, and the rest of the rightwing crowd. They lie to your face, stroke your emotions, so you vote for 'em, anyway.

This whole bit of dragging the income tax issue into the SS discussion is diversionary, at best. SS is a regressive tax, no income above $87K is taxed for that purpose... the Trust contributed ~$150B to the general fund in 2003, and is owed over $1.5T. To put it in CsG's terms, it's the General Fund that's been sucking on the SS Trust's teat for the last 20 years, and not the other way around...

For those of you who want some reliable numbers about the reality of risking your entire retirement in tne market, check out the IRA 401K/ 403B calculator at this site-

http://www.banksite.com/index1.html

Once you've entered reasonable numbers, what you find is all you'll get from schemes like CsG's is more governmental debt, and greater risk for your own retirement...

Long term investment in the stockmarket averages 12%/year.

Far more that social security will ever return.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From charrison-

Who do you think votes for them elites in congress?

The current cut taxes and spend more money crowd? You did, and CsG, and LMK, and the rest of the rightwing crowd. They lie to your face, stroke your emotions, so you vote for 'em, anyway.

This whole bit of dragging the income tax issue into the SS discussion is diversionary, at best. SS is a regressive tax, no income above $87K is taxed for that purpose... the Trust contributed ~$150B to the general fund in 2003, and is owed over $1.5T. To put it in CsG's terms, it's the General Fund that's been sucking on the SS Trust's teat for the last 20 years, and not the other way around...

For those of you who want some reliable numbers about the reality of risking your entire retirement in tne market, check out the IRA 401K/ 403B calculator at this site-

http://www.banksite.com/index1.html

Once you've entered reasonable numbers, what you find is all you'll get from schemes like CsG's is more governmental debt, and greater risk for your own retirement...

Wrong. My "scheme" is to get rid of the wealth transfer SCAM. Ending it won't cost more than it would have paid out anyway - sheesh. It's not too tough to understand.

CsG

 

[Jhhnn]

From charrison-

"Long term investment in the stockmarket averages 12%/year."

Pure Pie in the Sky Bullsh!t. The market has returned 7% average return for decades-

http://biz.yahoo.com/funds/cs6.html

And, of course, as any broker will tell you, past performance is not indicative of future earnings....

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From charrison-

"Long term investment in the stockmarket averages 12%/year."

Pure Pie in the Sky Bullsh!t. The market has returned 7% average return for decades-

http://biz.yahoo.com/funds/cs6.html

And, of course, as any broker will tell you, past performance is not indicative of future earnings....

I dont think the 12%/year is an inflation adjusted number.
7% after adjusted for inflation still kicks the crap out of social security.

 

[Engineer]

Does the trillions of money owed back to the so called trust "loan" just disappear if/when this private system jumps in?

Also, the more I think of it, the less I like the idea of paying in up to 10,000 and only getting 1,000 of it in an account. I think it should be more into the account.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Does the trillions of money owed back to the so called trust "loan" just disappear if/when this private system jumps in?

Also, the more I think of it, the less I like the idea of paying in up to 10,000 and only getting 1,000 of it in an account. I think it should be more into the account.

It is going to be owed by someone. I think with sacrifice from young and old, it is a very solvable problem.
I know I have already paid far more into SS than I will ever receive back.

 

[Jhhnn]

From CsG-

"My "scheme" is to get rid of the wealth transfer SCAM. Ending it won't cost more than it would have paid out anyway - sheesh. It's not too tough to understand. "

Yeh, Right. And you intend to do so by invoking the "Borrowed Money Is Free" Scam... ignoring the numbers, offering none of your own... When confronted with Reality, you simply re-iterate Ideology...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer
Does the trillions of money owed back to the so called trust "loan" just disappear if/when this private system jumps in?

Also, the more I think of it, the less I like the idea of paying in up to 10,000 and only getting 1,000 of it in an account. I think it should be more into the account.

It is going to be owed by someone. I think with sacrifice from young and old, it is a very solvable problem.
I know I have already paid far more into SS than I will ever receive back.

Probably me too, but....

They can keep the total of the $80,000 that has been paid by myself and my employers over the years if I could place ALL of the money into my own private account, but I'm not for giving them the money and still paying most of my money to the general payout and not receive any of it (guaranteed or not).

Oh, and I feel like I've ole so cheated...as my last check and the next one (for that matter) will have zero SS held out!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer
Does the trillions of money owed back to the so called trust "loan" just disappear if/when this private system jumps in?

Also, the more I think of it, the less I like the idea of paying in up to 10,000 and only getting 1,000 of it in an account. I think it should be more into the account.

It is going to be owed by someone. I think with sacrifice from young and old, it is a very solvable problem.
I know I have already paid far more into SS than I will ever receive back.

Probably me too, but....

They can keep the total of the $80,000 that has been paid by myself and my employers over the years if I could place ALL of the money into my own private account, but I'm not for giving them the money and still paying most of my money to the general payout and not receive any of it (guaranteed or not).

Oh, and I feel like I've ole so cheated...as my last check and the next one (for that matter) will have zero SS held out!

No SS withholdings?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer
Does the trillions of money owed back to the so called trust "loan" just disappear if/when this private system jumps in?

Also, the more I think of it, the less I like the idea of paying in up to 10,000 and only getting 1,000 of it in an account. I think it should be more into the account.

It is going to be owed by someone. I think with sacrifice from young and old, it is a very solvable problem.
I know I have already paid far more into SS than I will ever receive back.

Probably me too, but....

They can keep the total of the $80,000 that has been paid by myself and my employers over the years if I could place ALL of the money into my own private account, but I'm not for giving them the money and still paying most of my money to the general payout and not receive any of it (guaranteed or not).

Oh, and I feel like I've ole so cheated...as my last check and the next one (for that matter) will have zero SS held out!

No SS withholdings?

paid out!

 

[Jhhnn]

I think Engineer is saying he exceeded the SS deduction cap...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I think Engineer is saying he exceeded the SS deduction cap...

ah...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I think Engineer is saying he exceeded the SS deduction cap...

Oh, while I'm thinking of it....

Anyone think that this private account would be similar to a Roth IRA since the money is "AFTER TAX" paid in? I would assume it would be very similar. Think ole Uncle Sam is going to tax you on it "again" after you retire?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I think Engineer is saying he exceeded the SS deduction cap...

Oh, while I'm thinking of it....

Anyone think that this private account would be similar to a Roth IRA since the money is "AFTER TAX" paid in? I would assume it would be very similar. Think ole Uncle Sam is going to tax you on it "again" after you retire?

I would assume it would be more like a 401k, with the money going in pretax.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I think Engineer is saying he exceeded the SS deduction cap...

Oh, while I'm thinking of it....

Anyone think that this private account would be similar to a Roth IRA since the money is "AFTER TAX" paid in? I would assume it would be very similar. Think ole Uncle Sam is going to tax you on it "again" after you retire?

I would assume it would be more like a 401k, with the money going in pretax.

SS payroll deductions are currently taxed and I can't see any reason that they would stop doing it now.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From CsG-

"My "scheme" is to get rid of the wealth transfer SCAM. Ending it won't cost more than it would have paid out anyway - sheesh. It's not too tough to understand. "

Yeh, Right. And you intend to do so by invoking the "Borrowed Money Is Free" Scam... ignoring the numbers, offering none of your own... When confronted with Reality, you simply re-iterate Ideology...

WTF are you yapping about.
What you seem to not understand is that currently the gov't is transferring TAX money to older generations. This is entirely about the principle of the matter. You can talk about numbers all day long but ending SS is not going to cost us any more than we(or our kids/grandkids/g-grandkids) were going to pay anyway- infact it'll start costing less and less as time goes on instead of more and more. So yeah, keep trying to defend your scam if you wish and think you are talking "reality" :roll: You are defending a socialist wealth transfer scam. Good for you.

CsG

 

[Bozo Galora]

http://www.new-enlightenment.com/sss1.htm

 

[Bozo Galora]

http://www.uncle-scam.com/SocSec%20Trust/sstf-main.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Uh-huh, CsG. Borrowing trillions w/o any defined payback schedule or mechanism isn't a generational wealth transfer scam at all, either, according to you.

If you're going to contend that your scheme will "save us money", then you'll need to demonstrate that in numerical terms, rather than simply quoting the usual Bushista mantra of "Deficits don't matter"... otherwise, you're just telling us about the wonderful view from that Arizona oceanfront you're trying to peddle...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From CsG-

"My "scheme" is to get rid of the wealth transfer SCAM. Ending it won't cost more than it would have paid out anyway - sheesh. It's not too tough to understand. "

Yeh, Right. And you intend to do so by invoking the "Borrowed Money Is Free" Scam... ignoring the numbers, offering none of your own... When confronted with Reality, you simply re-iterate Ideology...

WTF are you yapping about.
What you seem to not understand is that currently the gov't is transferring TAX money to older generations. This is entirely about the principle of the matter. You can talk about numbers all day long but ending SS is not going to cost us any more than we(or our kids/grandkids/g-grandkids) were going to pay anyway- infact it'll start costing less and less as time goes on instead of more and more. So yeah, keep trying to defend your scam if you wish and think you are talking "reality" :roll: You are defending a socialist wealth transfer scam. Good for you.

CsG

According to Reaganomics, inflation is nothing but a hidden tax. As GWB keeps running up the national debt, he is taxing everyone, because your dollar keeps buying less and less. Isn't that a "wealth transfer scheme"? It works for those people getting raises above the rate of inflation, but it sure doesn't help people on a fixed or low income.

When GWB was first elected, he made a "bookeeping change" that stole 400 billion out of SS. Now he wants to borrow money for it? LOL!!

If GWB was rated on his actual managing skills, he couldn't manage to fight his way out of a paper sack. That is the reality I see. If we need to make changes in SS, he isn't the one to make them in my book. He should leave it alone and concentrate on finding Bin Laden or making sure Iraq has a fair election, if he can manage that, LOL!!

 

[ReiAyanami]

bush is good at managing small businesses. first he takes one of his daddy's companies and then turns it into a small business.

for example, an oil company which he was chairman for, he was able to sell the stock right before it tanked on bad earnings. THAT MAN IS PSYCHIC!!!

MARTHA STEWART FORESIGHT Technology 2.0

which can only mean he has psychic business capabilities, so put your faithes in him, you terrorists.

 

[Bozo Galora]

http://www.comstockfunds.com/html/2b.gif

http://www.stanley2002.org/How...ome_Tax_Flyer_Back.pdf

http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/tl07a.shtml

http://www.freemarketnews.com/portfolio/index.php