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Bush Says He Declassified Pre-War Intel

There is the NIE infomration and then there is the situation with Flame being outed.

The two are being treated as seperate incidents.

It will be up to the anti-Bushes to come up with a way to tie them together.
 
Eagski, please elaborate because I think you're wrong. I don't thing there was every any fuss about the release or non-release of NIE information. The hullaballoo, which got Fitzgerald appoint as a prosecutor was simply about Plame's outing. That's what Bush vowed to fire for, not anything about the NIE. If you respond, try something new: Putting in a link instead of simply brushing your teeth with gunpowder then shooting off your mouth.
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is the NIE infomration and then there is the situation with Flame being outed.

The two are being treated as seperate incidents.

It will be up to the anti-Bushes to come up with a way to tie them together.

You have to have a very bad imagination not to be able to tie it together, though proving it will be another thing.

"I wanted people to see the truth and thought it made sense for people to see the truth," Bush said

Yeah, Bush is the "truth President" alright. Old blood and truth Bush!!
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is the NIE infomration and then there is the situation with Flame being outed.

The two are being treated as seperate incidents.

It will be up to the anti-Bushes to come up with a way to tie them together.

I don't see why the "anti-Bushes" would have to tie anything together, it really makes no difference. They ARE two seperate issues, both of which reflect poorly on the Bush administration. They do so for different reasons, but I see no reason it has to be some big conspiracy. It's not like it's any better that the two are seperate.
 
Here's the Wikipedia article on The Plame Affair. See particularly §6.1 White House reactions, Bush and Cheney involvement. It has this in it
On September 30, 2003, Mr. Bush said " And if there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of." Followed by, "I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action."[109] President George W. Bush, who has repeatedly denied knowing the identity of the leaker, called the leak a "criminal action" for the first time on 6 October 2003, stating "f anybody has got any information inside our government or outside our government who leaked, you ought to take it to the Justice Department so we can find the leaker."[110][111] Speaking to a crowd of journalists the following day, Bush said "I have no idea whether we'll find out who the leaker is -- partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers."[112] On 8 October 2003, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said that "no one has more of an interest in getting to the bottom of this than the White House does, than the President does."[113]
 
The NIE was declassified and portions released. Libby may have been authorized to do so (release on unclassifed info). It may have been politicaly motivated, however, if the info was declassifeid, that does not constitute a crime.


Item 2 on the front burner (via Fitz) is who leaked Flame's name.

Bush has stated that the person that did so will be punished.

People have attempted to tie the two things together.

Whether that is so; with the NIE declassified, the seperation has been defined.

Therefore, no matter how it smells, the actual linkage of Flame to somebody will have to be layed out by Fitz.

Someone did and who actually did it will be the initial fall guy. Whether pulling on the thread will reveal anyone else, will be up to the political will and loyality vs jail time.
 
It's Plame, not Flame. Flame is what was written on a memo marked SECRET on that flight to Africa.

There is a conspiracy and Fitzgerald is the one who can bring it all to trial. You know they're scared as now they're having Libby's defense try to say Fitzgerald's appointment wasn't legal.
 
I keep hearing that Libby leaked the info BEFORE the process of declassification was completed.. True or Not True?
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
I keep hearing that Libby leaked the info BEFORE the process of declassification was completed.. True or Not True?

Originally posted by: eilute
If it was declassified, why did they request anonymity from the NY Times?

It was not officially declassified until 10 days after Libby had passed the information to Miller.
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The NIE was declassified and portions released. Libby may have been authorized to do so (release on unclassifed info). It may have been politicaly motivated, however, if the info was declassifeid, that does not constitute a crime.


Item 2 on the front burner (via Fitz) is who leaked Flame's name.

Bush has stated that the person that did so will be punished.

People have attempted to tie the two things together.

Whether that is so; with the NIE declassified, the seperation has been defined.

Therefore, no matter how it smells, the actual linkage of Flame to somebody will have to be layed out by Fitz.

Someone did and who actually did it will be the initial fall guy. Whether pulling on the thread will reveal anyone else, will be up to the political will and loyality vs jail time.

Actually, the NIE issue really has two parts. First of all, was it ACTUALLY declassified before being released? It's been declassified now, but I thought there was some question as to the timing there. The second issue is that, even though it was legal, declassifying information doesn't mean it's automatically harmless. Bush certainly has the authority to do so, but if he declassified information that should have remaind secret for no reason beyond partisan political motivations, it's a black mark against him IMHO, even though he may have been justified in doing so. The President has a lot of authority, and he has a responsibility to use that authority for the good of the country, not for the advancement of his own political ambitions.
 
Originally posted by: conehead433
Originally posted by: dahunan
I keep hearing that Libby leaked the info BEFORE the process of declassification was completed.. True or Not True?

Originally posted by: eilute
If it was declassified, why did they request anonymity from the NY Times?

It was not officially declassified until 10 days after Libby had passed the information to Miller.

So.. my next question is.. Did Mr. Libby have clearance to receive/be told classified information?
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is the NIE infomration and then there is the situation with Flame being outed.

The two are being treated as seperate incidents.

It will be up to the anti-Bushes to come up with a way to tie them together.

Truth.

The anti-Bushes are trying to put them together just by saying them in the same sentence enough times. Anyone who actually pays attention can see that declassifying intel does not mean permission to "out" Plame. No doubt they will keep trying to claim they are one in the same since they have so much invested in this non-leak story.

Nothing new here, just the all too willing media rehashed old news trying to stir up the conspiracy folks.
 
I don't know where ShadesOfGrey and EagleKeeper get the idea that the anti-Bushies are trying to link the release of NIE information and the Plame problem. Could you quote the part of this thread where someone has attempted to link them. I don't know Shade's work well, but I have never seen the Eagle back up anything with a link to a reputable source. I don't even see that EagleKeeper has quoted anything in this thread.

To enter a quote, either copy it from the original posting and past it into what you're going to post or, Click on the Reply button above the reply box at the end of the threads. This brings up a separate windo that has link, font characteristics, and a quote button. Come on guys, quite putting the smoke into the air. Just tell us where in this thread someone has attempted to link the NIE and Plame matters. I double dog dare you!
 
Originally posted by: conehead433
Originally posted by: dahunan
I keep hearing that Libby leaked the info BEFORE the process of declassification was completed.. True or Not True?

Originally posted by: eilute
If it was declassified, why did they request anonymity from the NY Times?

It was not officially declassified until 10 days after Libby had passed the information to Miller.

It was a declassified when the President made it so;

Constitutionally, the authority to declare documents "classified" resides with the president. So, under the terms of an executive order first drafted in 1982, he can declassify a document merely by declaring it unclassified.

The language of the executive order reads as follows: "Information shall be declassified or downgraded by the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position . . . [or] a supervisory official." In the executive branch, the president is the ultimate "supervisory official."

DUBYA CAN'T LEAK

So sad, he actually decided to make the case and undercut all the lies of Joe Wilson. As the Washington Post puts it clearly;

A Good Leak

President Bush declassified some of the intelligence he used to decide on war in Iraq. Is that a scandal?

PRESIDENT BUSH was right to approve the declassification of parts of a National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq three years ago in order to make clear why he had believed that Saddam Hussein was seeking nuclear weapons. Presidents are authorized to declassify sensitive material, and the public benefits when they do. But the administration handled the release clumsily, exposing Mr. Bush to the hyperbolic charges of misconduct and hypocrisy that Democrats are leveling.

Rather than follow the usual declassification procedures and then invite reporters to a briefing -- as the White House eventually did -- Vice President Cheney initially chose to be secretive, ordering his chief of staff at the time, I. Lewis Libby, to leak the information to a favorite New York Times reporter. The full public disclosure followed 10 days later. There was nothing illegal or even particularly unusual about that; nor is this presidentially authorized leak necessarily comparable to other, unauthorized disclosures that the president believes, rightly or wrongly, compromise national security. Nevertheless, Mr. Cheney's tactics make Mr. Bush look foolish for having subsequently denounced a different leak in the same controversy and vowing to "get to the bottom" of it.

The affair concerns, once again, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and his absurdly over-examined visit to the African country of Niger in 2002. Each time the case surfaces, opponents of the war in Iraq use it to raise a different set of charges, so it's worth recalling the previous iterations. Mr. Wilson originally claimed in a 2003 New York Times op-ed and in conversations with numerous reporters that he had debunked a report that Iraq was seeking to purchase uranium from Niger and that Mr. Bush's subsequent inclusion of that allegation in his State of the Union address showed that he had deliberately "twisted" intelligence "to exaggerate the Iraq threat." The material that Mr. Bush ordered declassified established, as have several subsequent investigations, that Mr. Wilson was the one guilty of twisting the truth. In fact, his report supported the conclusion that Iraq had sought uranium.

Mr. Wilson subsequently claimed that the White House set out to punish him for his supposed whistle-blowing by deliberately blowing the cover of his wife, Valerie Plame, who he said was an undercover CIA operative. This prompted the investigation by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald. After more than 2 1/2 years of investigation, Mr. Fitzgerald has reported no evidence to support Mr. Wilson's charge. In last week's court filings, he stated that Mr. Bush did not authorize the leak of Ms. Plame's identity. Mr. Libby's motive in allegedly disclosing her name to reporters, Mr. Fitzgerald said, was to disprove yet another false assertion, that Mr. Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Mr. Cheney. In fact Mr. Wilson was recommended for the trip by his wife. Mr. Libby is charged with perjury, for having lied about his discussions with two reporters. Yet neither the columnist who published Ms. Plame's name, Robert D. Novak, nor Mr. Novak's two sources have been charged with any wrongdoing.

As Mr. Fitzgerald pointed out at the time of Mr. Libby's indictment last fall, none of this is particularly relevant to the question of whether the grounds for war in Iraq were sound or bogus. It's unfortunate that those who seek to prove the latter would now claim that Mr. Bush did something wrong by releasing for public review some of the intelligence he used in making his most momentous decision.


Media Selectively Recycles Old News

Certainly old news;

We journalists are environmentally friendly. We recycle. We've been recycling old news all weekend, without, of course, telling you it's old news.

"A senior administration official confirmed for the first time on Sunday that President Bush had ordered the declassification of parts of a prewar intelligence report on Iraq in an effort to rebut critics who said the administration had exaggerated the nuclear threat posed by Saddam Hussein," reported David Sanger and David Johnston in the New York Times Monday.

For the first time? Here's the AP's Tom Raum on July 20, 2003: "The White House declassified portions of an October, 2002 intelligence report to demonstrate that President Bush had ample reason to believe Iraq was reconstituting a nuclear weapons program."

"The unusual decision to declassify a major intelligence report was a bid by the White House to quiet a growing controversy over Bush's allegations about Iraq's weapons programs," wrote Dana Milbank and Dana Priest in the Washington Post the day before.


Mr. Sanger and Mr. Johnston must have slept through that month. Why the recycling? In a court filing April 5, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald reported that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney, told the grand jury that Mr. Cheney had authorized him to disclose portions of the National Intelligence Estimate to Judith Miller of the New York Times a couple of weeks before its general release.

The NIE was declassified to rebut charges by Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that President Bush lied when he said in his 2003 State of the Union address that "the British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium in Africa."

Mr. Libby has been indicted by Mr. Fitzgerald for lying to the grand jury about whether he told Ms. Miller that Mr. Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, worked at the CIA, and was responsible for dispatching him on his now famous trip to Niger.

Dafna Linzer and Barton Gellman of the Washington Post should be grateful no legal jeopardy is attached to lying to their readers. In their story Sunday they said: "the evidence Cheney and Libby selected to share with reporters had been disproved months before."

The opposite is true. In July of 2004, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence concluded unanimously that it was Mr. Wilson who was lying. He had been sent to Niger by his wife, and he told the CIA officers who debriefed him that Iraqi officials had approached Nigerien officials about buying "yellowcake."

Also that month, a parliamentary panel which investigated British claims about Iraqi WMD, the Butler Commission, concluded that the statements that Saddam had tried to buy uranium in Africa were "well founded." Perhaps Ms. Linzner and Mr. Gellman slept through that month.

Most of the recycled stories this weekend described the release of portions of the NIE as a "leak," a word that was not used in July of 2003 when the NIE was made public. For good reason. A leak is an unauthorized disclosure of classified information.

"President Bush was right to approve the declassification of parts of a National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq three years ago in order to make clear why he had believed that Saddam Hussein was seeking nuclear weapons," said the Washington Post in an editorial Sunday, one which noted the holes in Mr. Wilson's story which Ms. Linzner and Mr. Gellman somehow overlooked. "Presidents are authorized to declassify sensitive material, and the public benefits when they do."

The weekend's feeding frenzy was based on the little bit of news that Judy Miller had been briefed on the NIE before its general release. Hardly earth shattering or uncommon stuff. But many journalists saw an opportunity to imply the president had done something wrong, and to repeat charges made years ago which subsequently were proven false.



 
Originally posted by: Witling
Eagski, please elaborate because I think you're wrong. I don't thing there was every any fuss about the release or non-release of NIE information. The hullaballoo, which got Fitzgerald appoint as a prosecutor was simply about Plame's outing. That's what Bush vowed to fire for, not anything about the NIE. If you respond, try something new: Putting in a link instead of simply brushing your teeth with gunpowder then shooting off your mouth.
Plenty of threads here over the past few months have had people linking to reports/media and making suppositions that the Flame/Plame situation ID release was authorized by Bush/Cheney.

Then the implication that the declassificaiton of the NEI was used as a coverup for Libby (who supposedly had ties into the release of the name).

I am not going to track down multiple posts in threads to attempt to show what people said and how they said it.

Enough people are anti-Bush that they felt that he/Chaney did/authorized every dirty deed that the underlings are accused of. And then when it comes throwing the book, they say he is waffling.

The lady's name was considered classified and related to the NEI by multiple people.
They jump on the bandwagon and attempted to tie the two together.

The use of the word THEY is for both the real world and the AT world.

Again, what may have been done to Wilson's wife was wrong, however, there is multiple directions on the timing of the release her name and where the info came from.

Let Fitz cut through the smoke and find out who and when.
Then throw the spears. Or do you not have faith in Fitz?

 
EagleKeeper, sometimes I let my alligator mouth overload my hummingbird body. I guess it's because I always hoped this board would shed more light than heat. I apologize for taking my frustrations out on you. About 98% of the "dialogue" on this board, whether it's about someone like Bush or someone like Clinton, is "Yes he did / No he didn't" or just bald unsupported statements of "fact" that may or may not be true. Forget about tracking down multiple posts. Most of them are just bald assertions, the quality of which we have no idea, which is why I picked on your posts in this thread. Try some primary sources, not what the twits (and I include myself here) on this board post.

For example, the F-15, it is a remarkable plane but, the first one was delivered to the Air Force in 1974, the first combat squadron formed in in 1982. Which air force did it ever fly against who was any good? Finding data on this plane is easy. See, e.g., FAS Military Analysis Network. It's very, very good at beating up third world air forces. Everyone else except the Chinese is quiting the serious "toys for boys' game.

By the way, this is a serious question to which I don't know the answer. To count as a "kill" does the other plane have to be in the air or can you get credit for shooting them while they sit on the airfield? Also, if you're chasing the other guy through narrow canyons and he hits a hill, is that a kill? What if he's chasing you and he hits a hill?
 
Some people here like to characterize others as "anti-bushes" while they have their own noses so far up bush's a$$ they can smell his breath.

The NIE leak and the Plame leak are both examples of the way this administration operates. They set an agenda then fix the information to fit their agenda. And we can all see where that type of "leadership" has gotten us.
 
Originally posted by: Witling
For example, the F-15, it is a remarkable plane but, the first one was delivered to the Air Force in 1974, the first combat squadron formed in in 1982. Which air force did it ever fly against who was any good? Finding data on this plane is easy. See, e.g., FAS Military Analysis Network. It's very, very good at beating up third world air forces. Everyone else except the Chinese is quiting the serious "toys for boys' game.

By the way, this is a serious question to which I don't know the answer. To count as a "kill" does the other plane have to be in the air or can you get credit for shooting them while they sit on the airfield? Also, if you're chasing the other guy through narrow canyons and he hits a hill, is that a kill? What if he's chasing you and he hits a hill?

The Eagle has gone up against the Russians top line fighters during the cold war.
Everytime the Russians blinked.

There are no real other opponents that either have the training or the equipment.
Incidents with the Red Chinese have had the Chinese blink. (The quality of Chinese pilots are questionable - just like their army; many to throw at you, to heck with the losses).

The other actual publicized combats have either been the USAF against Iraq (good planes, lousy pilots) or the IAF against the Arabs (decent planes, lousy pilots).

If the quality of the A/C and threat of it can keep the opponents wary and out of the theatre, then that is as good a record as an actual kill. This theory does not just need to apply to the F15 but to any A/C by any nations AF.

For most pilots and for the reports, a ground kill does not count as a "combat kill".
Removing a plane and pilot accomplishes something; however, for one who is trained in aerial combat, it is not a man against man (skill vs skill) classificaiton.

How a plane is destroyed due to one's action when the opponent is in the air, only matters if you (the pilot) is directly responsible for the destruction of the plane. Any weapon is considered fair; including the earth. If you can outfly the opponent and the opponent makes a mistake by flying into the ground; then you have legitimately won.

The above guidelines are not written down anywhere but generally accepted.



 
According to their own procedures when a NIE is declassified the CIA director is supposed to review it. Tenant did not know about the declassification when it was given to Judy Miller. The only people who knew at that time were Bush, Cheney and Libby. Tenent was given the document 10 days later.

Bush was also personally involved in picking Judy Miller to get the NIE. While he may not have personally ordered Libby to leak the name of Plame he had a good idea how the information got out. That not what he was telling the public.
 
Originally posted by: HomerJS
According to their own procedures when a NIE is declassified the CIA director is supposed to review it. Tenant did not know about the declassification when it was given to Judy Miller. The only people who knew at that time were Bush, Cheney and Libby. Tenent was given the document 10 days later.

Bush was also personally involved in picking Judy Miller to get the NIE. While he may not have personally ordered Libby to leak the name of Plame he had a good idea how the information got out. That not what he was telling the public.

Those reasons are precisely why this isn't, despite all the desperate spin, bush declassifying data to reveal "the truth" (although the info given to that skank miller was all LIES), THIS IS A CLASSIC CASE OF CONSPIRACY.
 
E. J. Dionne makes several salient points in the following article (all of which I've bolded for those bush a$$ kissers who might not recognize them).

All the President's Leaks

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, April 11, 2006; Page A21

What's amazing about the defenses offered for President Bush in the Valerie Plame leak investigation is that they deal with absolutely everything except the central issue: Did Bush know a lot more about this case than he let on before the 2004 elections?

But first, let's offer full credit to the Bush spin operation for working so hard and so effectively to change the subject.

The news was the court filing by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald reporting that Bush, through Vice President Cheney, had authorized I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby to leak sensitive intelligence information in July 2003 to discredit claims made by former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV.

Wilson had fired a direct shot at the White House's rationale for the war in Iraq by saying the administration had distorted intelligence concerning Saddam Hussein's supposed efforts to obtain nuclear materials. The threat that Hussein might go nuclear was an emotional centerpiece of the administration's case for war. Condoleezza Rice, then Bush's national security adviser, made the case with great dramatic effect on Sept. 8, 2002: "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

The president's defenders want you to think that when it comes to leaking, every president does it. Why should Bush be held to a different standard? Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) told CNN on Sunday that the Bush administration was innocently asking itself, "How do we get the full story out there?"

Besides, since the president can authorize the declassification of anything he chooses to declassify, he can't be involved in anything untoward. "This was not a leak," Joseph diGenova, a top Republican lawyer, told the New York Sun's Josh Gerstein. "This was an authorized disclosure." Ah, yes, it depends on what the meaning of the word "leak" is. That sounds familiar, doesn't it?

These arguments merely distract attention from why Fitzgerald's disclosure was so important. When a fuss was kicked up in the fall of 2003 about the leaking of the name of Wilson's wife, former CIA operative Valerie Plame, to the media earlier in the year, the president spoke and acted as if he knew nothing and was incensed that any leaking was going on in his administration.

In its issue of Oct. 13, 2003, Time magazine quoted Bush as saying: "Listen, I know of nobody -- I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information." Then the magazine's writers made an observation that turns out to be prescient: "Bush," they wrote, "seemed to emphasize those last two words as if hanging on to a legal life preserver in choppy seas."

The key words here are classified information. Did Bush at the time he made that statement know perfectly well that Cheney and Libby were involved with the leak, but that it didn't involve "classified information" because the president himself had authorized them to act? Talk about a legalistic defense.


Could it be that Bush -- heading into what he knew would be a difficult election -- was creating the impression of wanting the full story out when he already knew what most of the story was?

Which leads to another question: What exactly did Attorney General John Ashcroft know when he recused himself from the leak investigation? Did he know the investigation was getting dangerously close to Bush, Cheney, Libby and White House senior political adviser Karl Rove?

In announcing Fitzgerald's appointment on Dec. 30, 2003, Deputy Attorney General James Comey said that Ashcroft, "in an abundance of caution, believed that his recusal was appropriate based on the totality of the circumstances and the facts and evidence developed at this stage of the investigation." What were the "facts" and the "evidence" on which Ashcroft acted? Did the administration consciously consider if passing off the investigation to someone else would delay the day of reckoning to beyond the 2004 election? And, yes, what exactly did Bush tell Fitzgerald and his staff when they questioned him on June 24, 2004? What had Cheney told Fitzgerald earlier?

The most heartening sign that all the spin in the world will not allow the administration to evade such questions was Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter's statement on Fox News Sunday that "there has to be a detailed explanation precisely as to what Vice President Cheney did, what the president said to him, and an explanation from the president as to what he said so that it can be evaluated." Specter, a Republican and a former district attorney in Philadelphia, is just the right man to take the lead in breaking the spin cycle.
 
Just so people can get a better idea of what was actually leaked/declassified:

FAS Note: The following excerpts from an October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate were declassified on July 18, 2003 and presented at a White House background briefing on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraq-wmd.html

This is the part I thought interesting (found at the very end):
"Finally, the claims of Iraqi pursuit of natural uranium in Africa are, in INR's assessment, highly dubious."

I thought bush released this info to counter Wilson's statement that Iraq was NOT seeking uranium in Africa, but it seems in this very report the INR found it highly doubtful.
 
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