Bush plans to conquer the entire Middle East?

[jeremy806]

Bush outlines first-strike doctrine
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That means taking action against hostile forces like Iraq, he said, even when multinational groups like the United Nations balk.
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Among the goals, Bush said, is "supporting moderate and modern government, especially in the Muslim world, to ensure that the conditions and ideologies that promote terrorism do not find fertile ground in any nation."
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This change to our foreign "war policy" gives the executive branch unprecedented power to strike nations who have WMDs.

Please tell me, what gives any country the right to take down the governments of foreign nations and replace them with something else? Don't they realize this will create hatred toward us, the likes of which has never been seen? This hatred is what fuels terrorism, for peke's sake. Geez.

CNN also continues the lie, "suicidal terrorists cannot be deterred". Sure they can. Stop messing around in other countries. Do that and you stop breeding terrorism and the support of terrorism. This is the reason other wealthy, equally free countries like Canada, Switzerland and Australia are not under attack by terrorists.


Self-interest. Saddam needs to go, and we're the ones that are going to do it.
Never been seen? Did you forget about WTC? Don't you think that Saddam would nuke a major US city in heartbeat if he had the capabilities? If the US does not get a grip, you can kiss at least one major US city goodbye soon.
Terrorism will never stop. We are the target for it. Terrorism has persisted for decades, unfortunately for people like bin Laden and Saddam, they happen to be the ones behind it when the US decides to act on it.

jeremy806

 

[Fatt]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby
____________________________________________


Please tell me, what gives any country the right to take down the governments of foreign nations and replace them with something else?
"The Right" has nothing to do with it. Iraq is hostile to us. They have biological & chemical weapons and are trying to aquire nuclear weapons. They support terrorism outside of their country in many different states and one of the terrorist organizations they support is Al Queda. I'm sure you're well aqquainted with what they did last September.
So, we have the military strength to do something about it, which no other nation or nations do, so wer ARE going to do something about it. That's how real life works.


Don't they realize this will create hatred toward us, the likes of which has never been seen?
We are the big dog on the block so we are going to be hated and resented no matter WHAT we do. Until someone needs us anyway...
Has our behavior been perfect over the last 200 plus years? No. Of course not. Nobody's has.
Are we a threat to the world the way some nations are? Hell no.
Frankly, we have shown ASTONISHING restraint with nations who are hostile toward us.]


This hatred is what fuels terrorism, for peke's sake. Geez.
No, what fuels the hatred is rulers in non democratic nations throughout the owrld who, in order to distract their own people from how bad their govt treats them, blame all problems on us. Saudi Arabia is well known for this.


CNN also continues the lie, "suicidal terrorists cannot be deterred". Sure they can. Stop messing around in other countries.
"Not messing around in other countries" is not how you deal with terrorism. Terrorism exists because it suits the internal political needs of a variety of foreign nations. The way you deal with it is the way the soviets did in Beruit in the early 80's.
In case you are too young to recall, the USSR had some problems with terrorism in the mideast in the early 80's. Some of their people were kidnapped at the same time some of our people were. Terry Anderson for instance.
So the KGB kidnapped a bunch of frineds and family members of the terrorists and sent that organization an assortment of body parts in boxes. Not figuratively, Literally. Heads, hands, ears, etc... Enough to demonstrate that not only did the KGB kill these people but they did it in horrible ways. The soviets immediately ceased to have a terrorism problem.

Sound harsh? That's because you've been fortunate enough to lead a sheltered life, where any time you had a problem where someone was bothering you or picking on you there was an authority figure to protect you.
Well in terms of nations, there IS nobody to protect us. It's exactly like prison. If you let someone treat you like a BlTCH then you're going get treated that way by everybody.


This is the reason other wealthy, equally free countries like Canada, Switzerland and Australia are not under attack by terrorists.
Who said they weren't? Europe for instance has, and continues to have a terrorism problem. In the 70's & 80's it was huge. Not as bad now that the cold war is over. Many terrorist organizations are actually remnants of the cold war. Started and funded by the USSR they now continue to exist long after that nation ceased to exist.

Also, don't forget... Many nations, like Canada and Australia don't get the negative attention we do because WE take the heat.

You don't think that most of the world would love to see us topple saddam? Don't kid yourself. They're main worry is that once again we wont finish the job and then THEY end up being targets for having supported us.

The Arab nations especially would love to have saddam gone. they just need to figure out how to explain to their people that allowing the great satan to attack another mid-east nation is a GOOD thing. Especially after telling their people FOR YEARS how evil we were.

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: jeremy806


Bush outlines first-strike doctrine
Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That means taking action against hostile forces like Iraq, he said, even when multinational groups like the United Nations balk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Among the goals, Bush said, is "supporting moderate and modern government, especially in the Muslim world, to ensure that the conditions and ideologies that promote terrorism do not find fertile ground in any nation."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This change to our foreign "war policy" gives the executive branch unprecedented power to strike nations who have WMDs.

Please tell me, what gives any country the right to take down the governments of foreign nations and replace them with something else? Don't they realize this will create hatred toward us, the likes of which has never been seen? This hatred is what fuels terrorism, for peke's sake. Geez.

CNN also continues the lie, "suicidal terrorists cannot be deterred". Sure they can. Stop messing around in other countries. Do that and you stop breeding terrorism and the support of terrorism. This is the reason other wealthy, equally free countries like Canada, Switzerland and Australia are not under attack by terrorists.


Self-interest. Saddam needs to go, and we're the ones that are going to do it.
Never been seen? Did you forget about WTC? Don't you think that Saddam would nuke a major US city in heartbeat if he had the capabilities? If the US does not get a grip, you can kiss at least one major US city goodbye soon.
Terrorism will never stop. We are the target for it. Terrorism has persisted for decades, unfortunately for people like bin Laden and Saddam, they happen to be the ones behind it when the US decides to act on it.

jeremy806

Do I think Saddam would nuke a major US city if he had the capabilities?? No. He might be crazy, but he is not stupid. He knows it would be game over for him and his country if he did such a thing. Why hasn't Saddam used his other supposive WMD's that he has had for years on the US???

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: ndee
and you guys are still wondering why there is so much hatred against the US?

Think the real question is do we care.

The ruling party in Afghanistan farked us over...

It's iraq's turn next...maybe France after that. I'm sorry if we have a president that does not like the taste of Arab ass...

you do know that this is exactly the reason terrorists seek the US as a target, so yes you bloody well should care

Big deal. If you don't want our wrath stop killing our people. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...I have absolutely no problem in eliminating a man who would gas his own people and pay the families of murderers of civilians 25 grand...

think a little further about what this can do to the world

Like maybe saving a mill or 2 million jews?

and about what could happen because of this, like maybe saving a mill or 2 million muslims. The similarities between pre ww2 germany and current usa just keep racking up with each day.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by BaliBaliDoc

History didn't start with your birth and most of it is not written in English. As soon as your world view expands beyond CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, and even McNeil/Leher you just might understand.

That is a big truth....

Come on guys, there is nothing wrong about being patriotic, but when you defend blindly whatever your goverment does the patriotism get a different name.... it is called FANATISM.

In regards of USA support of dictators, yes, they did.... he was called Augusto Pinochet

 

[Lucky]

it is called FANATISM.

Gee, that's a new one.

 

[JellyBaby]

Did you forget about WTC? Don't you think that Saddam would nuke a major US city in heartbeat if he had the capabilities? If the US does not get a grip, you can kiss at least one major US city goodbye soon.

Did you forget about al qaeda, the group actually responsible for WTC? There are many nations far more dangerous than Iraq with WMD or WMD programs that are stated enemies of the US. Some of these countries have had nuclear capability for years. No nukes have gone off in our cities. Even Israel hasn't been nuked. Why?

We're being told enemies are everywhere, that they're coming for us and we must hit them first. What if the truth is different? What if we created or helped create these enemies? What if our policies create an environment in which they flourish and only by making serious foreign policy changes on our part will save the lives of innocent people who are caught in the middle?

 

[alexruiz]

[The US, being the "worlds policeman", is just doing its job...trying to keep the world safe so you can wave your little peace symbols in the air and denounce our foreign policy.

Who gave the USA the title of world' policeman......???? To protect what???

 

[Fatt]

The similarities between pre ww2 germany and current usa just keep racking up with each day.

Do they NOT teach history in public school any more??

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: ndee
and you guys are still wondering why there is so much hatred against the US?

Think the real question is do we care.

The ruling party in Afghanistan farked us over...

It's iraq's turn next...maybe France after that. I'm sorry if we have a president that does not like the taste of Arab ass...

you do know that this is exactly the reason terrorists seek the US as a target, so yes you bloody well should care

Big deal. If you don't want our wrath stop killing our people. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...I have absolutely no problem in eliminating a man who would gas his own people and pay the families of murderers of civilians 25 grand...

think a little further about what this can do to the world

Like maybe saving a mill or 2 million jews?

and about what could happen because of this, like maybe saving a mill or 2 million muslims. The similarities between pre ww2 germany and current usa just keep racking up with each day.

Dear czar....how soon we forget link

The similarities between Iceland and an ingrate is striking....

 

[JellyBaby]

Fatt,

Iraq is hostile to us.

Because the U.S. government made them an enemy. There is no evidence linking Iraq to Al Queda.

We are the big dog on the block so we are going to be hated and resented no matter WHAT we do.

I think we're hated and resented exactly because of what we do, not in spite of it.

what fuels the hatred is rulers in non democratic nations throughout the owrld who, in order to distract their own people from how bad their govt treats them

That is part of it and I'm not at all asserting U.S. foreign policy is the only contributor.

It's exactly like prison. If you let someone treat you like a BlTCH then you're going get treated that way by everybody.

It's nothing like a prison. Do you consider every country a criminal locked up in a big cell called Earth?

Many terrorist organizations are actually remnants of the cold war.

Superpowers who exert their "lead" and "dominance" have created many ills throughout history, haven't they?

 

[globalstud]

Who says they should have the lands with all the oil? We need it most. Since we're the most powerful nation, let's go take what we want .

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

[The US, being the "worlds policeman", is just doing its job...trying to keep the world safe so you can wave your little peace symbols in the air and denounce our foreign policy.

Who gave the USA the title of world' policeman......???? To protect what???

Do a search
link

I think it's because we normally have to help third world countries because they can't help themselves and the rest of the world won't do anything about it

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Fatt
Who said they weren't? Europe for instance has, and continues to have a terrorism problem. In the 70's & 80's it was huge. Not as bad now that the cold war is over. Many terrorist organizations are actually remnants of the cold war. Started and funded by the USSR they now continue to exist long after that nation ceased to exist.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Bin Laden trained by the CIA? Didn't he and his people receive money and support from USA when they fought against Soviet Union? Wasn't USA big supporter of Saddam Hussein when he fought against Iran?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Do they NOT teach history in public school any more??

Along with math, science, reading . . . granted judging by the quality of some elected officials . . . private schools are doing a crappy job, too.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: ndee
and you guys are still wondering why there is so much hatred against the US?

Think the real question is do we care.

The ruling party in Afghanistan farked us over...

It's iraq's turn next...maybe France after that. I'm sorry if we have a president that does not like the taste of Arab ass...

you do know that this is exactly the reason terrorists seek the US as a target, so yes you bloody well should care

Big deal. If you don't want our wrath stop killing our people. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...I have absolutely no problem in eliminating a man who would gas his own people and pay the families of murderers of civilians 25 grand...

think a little further about what this can do to the world

Like maybe saving a mill or 2 million jews?

and about what could happen because of this, like maybe saving a mill or 2 million muslims. The similarities between pre ww2 germany and current usa just keep racking up with each day.

Dear czar....how soon we forget link

The similarities between Iceland and an ingrate is striking....

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Dear czar....how soon we forget link

The similarities between Iceland and an ingrate is striking....

Yeah, US was there because they are kind and caring

. They were there because Iceland was a critical part of the SOSUS-system.

 

[wQuay]

and you guys are still wondering why there is so much hatred against the US?

you fool, they only hate us because we're the best people in the world

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I think it's because we normally have to help third world countries because they can't help themselves and the rest of the world won't do anything about it

BS, I hope you are joking. We help others to help ourselves. In the absence of Communism (or the fear thereof) the US military would have scarcely entered a country in the Western Hemisphere. Other than Hawaii but technically they were monarchy/socialist so close enough.

We usually SAY we're doing it to help someone that can't help themselves but in the post-Cold War era, the truth is closer to help someone out and then help ourselves to whatever they've got.

Millions of Tibetans were murdered by China and their culture essentially destroyed . . . MFN. China regularly suppresses dissent by any means necessary . . . MFN.

Sudan is an absolute bloodbath. Our response? Sending troops to the Horn to hunt terrorists living in Famine Central. We have no collective sense of morality and our leaders are clearly displaying this character flaw to the whole world.

We are the world's policeman. In a group of relative equals in moral standing, we are the crooked cop who gives all cops a bad reputation.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Dear czar....how soon we forget link

The similarities between Iceland and an ingrate is striking....

Yeah, US was there because they are kind and caring

. They were there because Iceland was a critical part of the SOSUS-system.

We could have waited until they took over all of Europe and overextended their boundaries too. This would have been a wise strategy except that alot of Europeans would be dead..


Next?

 

[Spagina]

Canada, Australia, and Switzerland may be equally free and wealthy, but they definitely AREN'T as wealthy as the United States and they aren't even in the same league when it comes to international standing as the United States. The United States is the sole super power left in this world, it has the strongest military in this world, and the strongest economy in this world. That's not bragging, that is a fact that so many people seem to be forgetting in these discussions. Closing our eyes and trying to wish the problems of the world away while rocking in the corner weeping doesn't solve anything and we know this. History shows that the only people that can solve the bull$hit in this world are the ones that act proactively and the United States fortunately is. Now how they are going about is for another flame-filled discussion that I won't get into, but atleast they are DOING something about it unlike the rest of the world. We learned in the 30's with regards as to what happens if you try to shelter yourself out of this world, you get 2000 of your best men killed anyways. Stay out and get 2000 killed, stay in and get 2000 killed? Jellybaby, I'm sure if you were around in the late 30's, 40's, you would be barking about how we should have just caved into Japan so they wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor. This same old routine is going on now, 60 years later.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Dear czar....how soon we forget link

The similarities between Iceland and an ingrate is striking....

Yeah, US was there because they are kind and caring

. They were there because Iceland was a critical part of the SOSUS-system.

We could have waited until they took over all of Europe and overextended their boundaries too. This would have been a wise strategy except that alot of Europeans would be dead..


Next?

so one right choose makes all the chooses the US takes involving other countries is automaticly correct? unusual logic

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
We could have waited until they took over all of Europe and overextended their boundaries too. This would have been a wise strategy except that alot of Europeans would be dead..

Next?

Who is "they"? Russians? You can't say what would have happened for sure in the past. Feel free to play the "what if"-game, but in all honesty, it's pointless.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

I think it's because we normally have to help third world countries because they can't help themselves and the rest of the world won't do anything about it

BS, I hope you are joking. We help others to help ourselves. In the absence of Communism (or the fear thereof) the US military would have scarcely entered a country in the Western Hemisphere. Other than Hawaii but technically they were monarchy/socialist so close enough.

We usually SAY we're doing it to help someone that can't help themselves but in the post-Cold War era, the truth is closer to help someone out and then help ourselves to whatever they've got.

Millions of Tibetans were murdered by China and their culture essentially destroyed . . . MFN. China regularly suppresses dissent by any means necessary . . . MFN.

Sudan is an absolute bloodbath. Our response? Sending troops to the Horn to hunt terrorists living in Famine Central. We have no collective sense of morality and our leaders are clearly displaying this character flaw to the whole world.

We are the world's policeman. In a group of relative equals in moral standing, we are the crooked cop who gives all cops a bad reputation.

and what did Iceland, Norway, France, Russia, Germany or for that matter the entire friggin UN do about this?

Not a damn thing.

The "policeman" can't be everywhere at once and yes we help out most when it effects our own country the most. We pick our battles because we can't help everyone else out at the same time.

You can argue about why don't we help out in Africa? Because what is the point? The countries there are so unstable it would make no difference, plus there is not that much oil there. I don't exactly see Denmark sending troops over to protect it's diamond interests either though. Let the country that is without sin cast the first stone...else step off your high horses.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

When a homicidal maniac has a gun pulled do the police wait until he has killed some people or do they eliminate the eventual outcome before it happens? The US, being the "worlds policeman", is just doing its job...trying to keep the world safe so you can wave your little peace symbols in the air and denounce our foreign policy.

As a soon to be licensed psychiatrist, here's my take on your pitiful analogy. Homicidal means you've killed before . . . I would probably keep you away from all weapons (guns, knives, tanks, intelligence about your enemies). Maniacs cannot maintain power b/c their impulses overcome their cognitive skills; ie they decisions defy logic. Furthermore, maniacs can NEVER be reasoned with . . . Saddam is not a maniac. He's a lying POS but many of his decisions are definitely well planned and executed.

Since it is too late to correct OUR past mistakes, the best plan of action would be to control our adversary by controllable, sustainable means. Your school of thought says INVADE. More measured individuals say start low, go slow and evaluate his capabilities . . . then maybe invade. The more your side talks the more you sound like maniacs.