Bush new jobs agenda

[chess9]

There's a lot that can be done to give companies DISINCENTIVES for sending jobs abroad. Tax corporations on the percentage of their payroll that is paid abroad.

Give corporations that keep jobs here small incentives as well.

A combination of disincentives and modest incentives is probably all that is required.

Our trade policies these days also need adjustment. We have free trade, but NOT fair trade. American companies must abide by a host of environmental and work related regulations here while third world countries pollute and allow the worst sorts of employment practices. If we don't negotiate those requirements into our free trade agreements we are foolish.

I'm sure the politicians could come up with quite a few others as well.

-Robert

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

Well we could probably roll back some epa and environmental regs, but i dont see that happening.

Not to mention union regs, but I don't see this happening either.

 

[UltraQuiet]

A combination of disincentives and modest incentives is probably all that is required.

What combination of "small" incentives will overcome the 70% savings in labor costs?

I find it absolutely hilarious that people think that making it more expensive to do business in this country is going to create jobs.

 

[Tripleshot]

Give a man a fish and he will feed his family for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will feed his family a lifetime.

The reason corporations send jobs and manufacturing abroad is because un educated countries can be easily manipulated. When 3rd world countries are lifted up, and their workforce is educated, their natural resources become the fodder for their growth, a level playing field will prevail and the cost/ benifit ratio ewill change. If all countries who whoo american business to set up business demand at least the minimum wage of the United States, I can assure you, that would go a good way to plugging the leak of jobs here.

It is complicated and there is no easy answer, but this job hemmorage has got to stop. 3 million people have lost their jobs in the last 3 years, and they haven't found work yet. That is apalling.:Q The american dream for them has become a nightmare.


On a side note; if anyone thinks greenspan is good for this country and his advice is sound, you are deluded. He has damn near ruined this country with his "economic" advice and now he is nothing more than an operative of the adminsitration. Study his waffling over the last decade. He needs to be removed as fed chairman, not applauded. If he had done his job right 15 years ago, and not pandered to the wim of the pundents at every meeting, we may not have this crappy economy. He puts bandaids on problems that require major surgery. He is pathetic.

 

[chess9]

UQ:

I said a combination of disincentives and modest incentives. You forgot the large part of the equation. Furthermore, such a policy would make it less costly to do business here not more costly. You skewed the premise to fit your agenda. Tsk, tsk....

But, I'm sure the Dems could come up with a few wrinkles in the tax code that would have free trade Republicans howling like wolves at a full moon.

-Robert

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: chess9
UQ:

I said a combination of disincentives and modest incentives. You forgot the large part of the equation. Furthermore, such a policy would make it less costly to do business here not more costly. You skewed the premise to fit your agenda. Tsk, tsk....

But, I'm sure the Dems could come up with a few wrinkles in the tax code that would have free trade Republicans howling like wolves at a full moon.

-Robert

Call them whatever you want, my question still stands. Tell me how what you propose would work. Not the politicians version, talking some vague concept good for a sound bite but a plan that would make it more profitable for a company to hire domestic labor at 3-4 times the cost.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: chess9
UQ:

I said a combination of disincentives and modest incentives. You forgot the large part of the equation. Furthermore, such a policy would make it less costly to do business here not more costly. You skewed the premise to fit your agenda. Tsk, tsk....

But, I'm sure the Dems could come up with a few wrinkles in the tax code that would have free trade Republicans howling like wolves at a full moon.

-Robert

Call them whatever you want, my question still stands. Tell me how what you propose would work. Not the politicians version, talking some vague concept good for a sound bite but a plan that would make it more profitable for a company to hire domestic labor at 3-4 times the cost.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

WEll you better become a fool then. Either that or plan to move to another country. Quite frankly Bush is costing this country big time. He's lost jobs. Period. And his plan is about as dumb as ever. I like Kerry's stance. A lot of companies just want to make money here. Ah no thanks. Bush has put Medicare and Social Security on the path to bankruptcy. And before you start flapping your gums, the fastest growing age group is the senior citizens. People are starting to live longer and because of financial restraints, imho, smaller families are the result. WE facing huge deficits that our children's, children, children won't be able to pay off. This president's time in office has been a disaster. We went from in the being in the black to being in the red. Now while the economy slow down for various reasons probably would have happened, the president's policys have just made it worse, much worse. He may be moral to a certain standpoint, but when it comes to economic policy he is an imbesol.

So what should be done to stop jobs from moving outside of the country?

We need better policys in place where companies who do business here, contribute to this economy as well. Thats not happening. We are operating like a free supermarket, its ok to eat here and not pay anything. That can't happen anymore. And unfortunately the president's lack of economic outlook for here in this country is sadly lacking. And you know what p!sses me off. All the people who have lost jobs and yet his buddies have locked their teeth into billion dollar contracts from the result of the Iraq war. Kinda like a slap in the american's people face. Our boys have died for what now looks like a very skeptical war at best and the old boys network secure billion dollar deals where they will get their cut and use cheap labor from there and clean up. And folks here just sit and wait. He needs to literally be picked up, walked out to the gate of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and thrown out on the street. All of them, him Chaney, Powell, the whole damn crew needs to be thrown out, preferably when its raining and cold.

That is a nice rant, but you failed to answer the question.

What do you do about india producing 50,000 CS grads a year? They are going to be competing in the world market. There is not much than can be done about it, but it leaves 3 realistic options( you wont like them)

1. Working for US companies in the US and paying US taxes
2. Working for US companies abroad, not paying US taxes
3. Competing with US companies at 1/10 the labor costs.

That is reality, so careful for what you wish for.

 

[Romans828]

The key to ALL OF THIS is to best position America to survive and hopefully thrive in the ever closing "One world economy"

Personally I think the republican ideas are problably the best LONG TERM strategy...

I think the communist plans are doomed to fail.

 

[digitalsm]

Hilarious.

In the past when some Conservatives ran on a Populist Platform, they were laughed off the stage and called crazy by democrats and the media. Now when the democrats do it, they are hero's standing up to the man or<inset witty catch phrase here>

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

WEll you better become a fool then. Either that or plan to move to another country. Quite frankly Bush is costing this country big time. He's lost jobs. Period. And his plan is about as dumb as ever. I like Kerry's stance. A lot of companies just want to make money here. Ah no thanks. Bush has put Medicare and Social Security on the path to bankruptcy. And before you start flapping your gums, the fastest growing age group is the senior citizens. People are starting to live longer and because of financial restraints, imho, smaller families are the result. WE facing huge deficits that our children's, children, children won't be able to pay off. This president's time in office has been a disaster. We went from in the being in the black to being in the red. Now while the economy slow down for various reasons probably would have happened, the president's policys have just made it worse, much worse. He may be moral to a certain standpoint, but when it comes to economic policy he is an imbesol.

So what should be done to stop jobs from moving outside of the country?

We need better policys in place where companies who do business here, contribute to this economy as well. Thats not happening. We are operating like a free supermarket, its ok to eat here and not pay anything. That can't happen anymore. And unfortunately the president's lack of economic outlook for here in this country is sadly lacking. And you know what p!sses me off. All the people who have lost jobs and yet his buddies have locked their teeth into billion dollar contracts from the result of the Iraq war. Kinda like a slap in the american's people face. Our boys have died for what now looks like a very skeptical war at best and the old boys network secure billion dollar deals where they will get their cut and use cheap labor from there and clean up. And folks here just sit and wait. He needs to literally be picked up, walked out to the gate of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and thrown out on the street. All of them, him Chaney, Powell, the whole damn crew needs to be thrown out, preferably when its raining and cold.

That is a nice rant, but you failed to answer the question.

What do you do about india producing 50,000 CS grads a year? They are going to be competing in the world market. There is not much than can be done about it, but it leaves 3 realistic options( you wont like them)

1. Working for US companies in the US and paying US taxes
2. Working for US companies abroad, not paying US taxes
3. Competing with US companies at 1/10 the labor costs.

That is reality, so careful for what you wish for.

One solid way is to make it a requirement to do business here. Period. Think it won't work? We import far more than we export. If we require companies who want to to do business here, to contribute to this economy with job development and paying their fair share of taxes they'll change their minds real quick or be shutout. Isn't that what Bush did in Iraq? Hey either you help us here or you won't be allowed to make money here. See how many countries went crazy? Why, because money talks and bs walks. Start telling these compnaies the same things concerning our country and I promise you it will change. Strange how they took that approach when it concerns something that is of personal interest to them, but feed the American people the dreck of this will help us in a long run by letting these companies take their jobs but still make money here. Thats just 1 hard stance way. I am sure there are a lot of others. And why are you still here? I mean if its so hopeless shouldn't you be catching the next flight to India or somewhere? Hey Ultra, buy the game Clue, it might help you get one.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

WEll you better become a fool then. Either that or plan to move to another country. Quite frankly Bush is costing this country big time. He's lost jobs. Period. And his plan is about as dumb as ever. I like Kerry's stance. A lot of companies just want to make money here. Ah no thanks. Bush has put Medicare and Social Security on the path to bankruptcy. And before you start flapping your gums, the fastest growing age group is the senior citizens. People are starting to live longer and because of financial restraints, imho, smaller families are the result. WE facing huge deficits that our children's, children, children won't be able to pay off. This president's time in office has been a disaster. We went from in the being in the black to being in the red. Now while the economy slow down for various reasons probably would have happened, the president's policys have just made it worse, much worse. He may be moral to a certain standpoint, but when it comes to economic policy he is an imbesol.

So what should be done to stop jobs from moving outside of the country?

We need better policys in place where companies who do business here, contribute to this economy as well. Thats not happening. We are operating like a free supermarket, its ok to eat here and not pay anything. That can't happen anymore. And unfortunately the president's lack of economic outlook for here in this country is sadly lacking. And you know what p!sses me off. All the people who have lost jobs and yet his buddies have locked their teeth into billion dollar contracts from the result of the Iraq war. Kinda like a slap in the american's people face. Our boys have died for what now looks like a very skeptical war at best and the old boys network secure billion dollar deals where they will get their cut and use cheap labor from there and clean up. And folks here just sit and wait. He needs to literally be picked up, walked out to the gate of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and thrown out on the street. All of them, him Chaney, Powell, the whole damn crew needs to be thrown out, preferably when its raining and cold.

That is a nice rant, but you failed to answer the question.

What do you do about india producing 50,000 CS grads a year? They are going to be competing in the world market. There is not much than can be done about it, but it leaves 3 realistic options( you wont like them)

1. Working for US companies in the US and paying US taxes
2. Working for US companies abroad, not paying US taxes
3. Competing with US companies at 1/10 the labor costs.

That is reality, so careful for what you wish for.

One solid way is to make it a requirement to do business here. Period. Think it won't work? We import far more than we export. If we require companies who want to to do business here, to contribute to this economy with job development and paying their fair share of taxes they'll change their minds real quick or be shutout. Isn't that what Bush did in Iraq? Hey either you help us here or you won't be allowed to make money here. See how many countries went crazy? Why, because money talks and bs walks. Start telling these compnaies the same things concerning our country and I promise you it will change. Strange how they took that approach when it concerns something that is of personal interest to them, but feed the American people the dreck of this will help us in a long run by letting these companies take their jobs but still make money here. Thats just 1 hard stance way. I am sure there are a lot of others. And why are you still here? I mean if its so hopeless shouldn't you be catching the next flight to India or somewhere? Hey Ultra, buy the game Clue, it might help you get one.

You seem to be missing the point. What do you do with 50,000 CS grads that india produces every year. They will be working either with US companies or against them. Take your pick. They are there and you just cant act like they are not there(which seems to be what you want judging by your answers).

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

You seem to be missing the point. What do you do with 50,000 CS grads that india produces every year. They will be working either with US companies or against them. Take your pick. They are there and you just cant act like they are not there(which seems to be what you want judging by your answers).

Hey are you guys serious? 50,000 cs grads? Man we've lost 2,700,000 jobs. And you want to address only 50,000 cs grads. Are f'in kidding me. Your focus is on only 50k of folks and I don't even know if thats even accurate, compared to losses of jobs in the millions. You are guys are so near sighted, its ridiculous.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

You seem to be missing the point. What do you do with 50,000 CS grads that india produces every year. They will be working either with US companies or against them. Take your pick. They are there and you just cant act like they are not there(which seems to be what you want judging by your answers).

Hey are you guys serious? 50,000 cs grads? Man we've lost 2,700,000 jobs. And you want to address only 50,000 cs grads. Are f'in kidding me. Your focus is on only 50k of folks and I don't even know if thats even accurate, compared to losses of jobs in the millions. You are guys are so near sighted, its ridiculous.

That is 50K CS grads a year, and no telling what other kind of technical positions they produce. India has embraced IT for its economy, sorr you dont like.


Which part do should we address first

1. China(india probably does as well) has lower corperate taxes than the US.
2. China/India have almost no regulation on emissions
3. They also have low wages in comparison to ours.

These are things we have little control over. But I have no doubt you want to make our US companies pay more and make them even less competative.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

You seem to be missing the point. What do you do with 50,000 CS grads that india produces every year. They will be working either with US companies or against them. Take your pick. They are there and you just cant act like they are not there(which seems to be what you want judging by your answers).

Hey are you guys serious? 50,000 cs grads? Man we've lost 2,700,000 jobs. And you want to address only 50,000 cs grads. Are f'in kidding me. Your focus is on only 50k of folks and I don't even know if thats even accurate, compared to losses of jobs in the millions. You are guys are so near sighted, its ridiculous.

How many of those 2,700,000 jobs lost are a result of outsourcing? A very small precentage of that.

I will also say, look at all the mass layoffs under Clintons admin. Without the dot com boom Clinton WOULD have had a negative number for jobs created in his second term. Right now outsourcing is being blown way out of proportion. All this bitching is just populism and protectionism, both have failed time and time again.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

How is this? All companies who do any business in the US would have to pay a salary tax on all out of the United States employees of 350%.Thus all outside workers would cost as much as American workers and now the only factor companies would consider in hiring is productivity which noone can compare to the American worker.
Incidentally I have had experience with foreign workers inside the US working for only a couple dollars an hour less and know for a fact that the Americans do 5 times as much work. Noone is going to compete with US workers if the wages are equal because Americans know how to work hard.

Disclaimer:This is merely a fact and should not be taken as an opinion at all.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

How is this? All companies who do any business in the US would have to pay a salary tax on all out of the United States employees of 350%.Thus all outside workers would cost as much as American workers and now the only factor companies would consider in hiring is productivity which noone can compare to the American worker.
Incidentally I have had experience with foreign workers inside the US working for only a couple dollars an hour less and know for a fact that the Americans do 5 times as much work. Noone is going to compete with US workers if the wages are equal because Americans know how to work hard.

Disclaimer:This is merely a fact and should not be taken as an opinion at all.

Protectionism does not work. This has been proven time and time again.

Disclaimer:This is merely a fact and should not be taken as an opinion at all.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
There is no conceivable government plan that can overcome the 70% labor savings that companies realize by sending jobs overseas. Anyone who says any differently is nothing more than a politician (worst insult ever) and anyone who believes them is a fool.

WEll you better become a fool then. Either that or plan to move to another country. Quite frankly Bush is costing this country big time. He's lost jobs. Period. And his plan is about as dumb as ever. I like Kerry's stance. A lot of companies just want to make money here. Ah no thanks. Bush has put Medicare and Social Security on the path to bankruptcy. And before you start flapping your gums, the fastest growing age group is the senior citizens. People are starting to live longer and because of financial restraints, imho, smaller families are the result. WE facing huge deficits that our children's, children, children won't be able to pay off. This president's time in office has been a disaster. We went from in the being in the black to being in the red. Now while the economy slow down for various reasons probably would have happened, the president's policys have just made it worse, much worse. He may be moral to a certain standpoint, but when it comes to economic policy he is an imbesol.

So what should be done to stop jobs from moving outside of the country?

We need better policys in place where companies who do business here, contribute to this economy as well. Thats not happening. We are operating like a free supermarket, its ok to eat here and not pay anything. That can't happen anymore. And unfortunately the president's lack of economic outlook for here in this country is sadly lacking. And you know what p!sses me off. All the people who have lost jobs and yet his buddies have locked their teeth into billion dollar contracts from the result of the Iraq war. Kinda like a slap in the american's people face. Our boys have died for what now looks like a very skeptical war at best and the old boys network secure billion dollar deals where they will get their cut and use cheap labor from there and clean up. And folks here just sit and wait. He needs to literally be picked up, walked out to the gate of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and thrown out on the street. All of them, him Chaney, Powell, the whole damn crew needs to be thrown out, preferably when its raining and cold.

That is a nice rant, but you failed to answer the question.

What do you do about india producing 50,000 CS grads a year? They are going to be competing in the world market. There is not much than can be done about it, but it leaves 3 realistic options( you wont like them)

1. Working for US companies in the US and paying US taxes
2. Working for US companies abroad, not paying US taxes
3. Competing with US companies at 1/10 the labor costs.

That is reality, so careful for what you wish for.

One solid way is to make it a requirement to do business here. Period. Think it won't work? We import far more than we export. If we require companies who want to to do business here, to contribute to this economy with job development and paying their fair share of taxes they'll change their minds real quick or be shutout. Isn't that what Bush did in Iraq? Hey either you help us here or you won't be allowed to make money here. See how many countries went crazy? Why, because money talks and bs walks. Start telling these compnaies the same things concerning our country and I promise you it will change. Strange how they took that approach when it concerns something that is of personal interest to them, but feed the American people the dreck of this will help us in a long run by letting these companies take their jobs but still make money here. Thats just 1 hard stance way. I am sure there are a lot of others. And why are you still here? I mean if its so hopeless shouldn't you be catching the next flight to India or somewhere? Hey Ultra, buy the game Clue, it might help you get one.

Tell me something genius what happens to the price of goods and services if we force companies to pay the labor rate in this country? Do you think they will just take the hit on the bottom line? Are you suggesting that only goods and services made in this country could be sold in this country? No more importing oil for instance? What do you think would happen to the price of oil if we did that? I think we tried some sort of protectionism/tariff /level the playing field experiment once before. If I remember right, it didn't work out so well.

I have clues to spare, 'tard. I'd give you one but you'd have no idea what to do with it.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

One solution is to do as the Roman empire did.
Conquer every country enslave all the people and take all their stuff. It worked for the roman empire for hundreds of years.
It really pisses me off to see that we have conquered Iraq but gas is MORE expensive than ever.

 

[razor2025]

so, UQ, how about you give us some of "solutions" to the problem? I'm guessing that you live in US and DO care about the employment situation. Instead of just parading around with questions after questions, why don't you answer some of your own?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: razor2025
so, UQ, how about you give us some of "solutions" to the problem? I'm guessing that you live in US and DO care about the employment situation. Instead of just parading around with questions after questions, why don't you answer some of your own?

I honestly don't think there is an answer. As long as people are demanding that they pay the lowest price possible for goods and services and stock holders are demanding better and better earnings then companies will be forced to continue to cut costs. If the consumers in this country (and we are the largest consumer economy in the world) decide to only buy domestically produced products, and pay the premium or setlle for the lower quality that goes along with that, then maybe companies will be forced to shift the workforce back home. I don't see it happening but it might. Forcing it to happen by legislation won't work because it would just cause backlash in the international community, probably violates our trade agreements and would result in some unfavorable rulings by the WTO.

 

[sandorski]

Perplexing issue with no easy answers. The US has tried devalueing the dollar, Exports have risen to record levels, but so have Imports. Last years Trade Deficit is the highest ever. To continue devalueing the dollar is foolishness, due to the US's need to Import Oil and other products.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Perplexing issue with no easy answers. The US has tried devalueing the dollar, Exports have risen to record levels, but so have Imports. Last years Trade Deficit is the highest ever. To continue devalueing the dollar is foolishness, due to the US's need to Import Oil and other products.

Exactly, and what has been the EU's response to the devalued dollar? What people don't seem to realize is that we are in a global economy and these "problems" have to be fixed on a "global" scale. Short-sighted election year rheoric or, even worse, short sighted reactionary domestic legislation is not the answer. What is also apparent, and was the real jist of the much maligned/taken out of context report that came out of the white house this week, is that the loss of jobs is inevitable and we must retrain those workers and develop new industries for them to work in. History tells us we will.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Global minimum wage is the only answer. Why is it legal for a US company to get around the US minimum wage by hiring foreigners out of country.Everything about this smells like a loophole in the law. Cruise ships have been doing it for a long time by having a p.o. box in a small island nation to avoid US labor laws. This needs to be punished.

 

[Romans828]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Global minimum wage is the only answer. Why is it legal for a US company to get around the US minimum wage by hiring foreigners out of country.Everything about this smells like a loophole in the law. Cruise ships have been doing it for a long time by having a p.o. box in a small island nation to avoid US labor laws. This needs to be punished.

Here here and a "One World Goverment" the sooner the better........