Bush needs to go...

[tec699]

Look at what he did...

baby killer


bush is making us look like fools!

 

[lozina]

Oh please, this has been debunked already. We all know the parents of these children did this so they can criticize Bush. They are such zealous Bush haters that they'd mutilate their own children to make us look bad. You're just being anti-American by believing their propaganda.

 

[Skitzer]

Hey here's a concept ....... why don't we put the blame for these atrocities where they belong?

 

[TravisT]

Or, lets just follow the Geneva Convention and kill every single enemy that we encounter in war for not being in a uniform. Then, lets see how much they worry about putting panties on their head.

Stop kicking a dead horse here, i'm tired of hearing about this.

 

[Moonbeam]

The military does estimates of collateral damage, innocent deaths, that will occur in conflicts. When you go to war you already know and are prepared to kill innocent people. This is why you never want to elect a God damned worthelss piece of sh!t as your President and fortunatley for America it was the Supreme Coup, not the American people who did.

 

[Pepsei]

He needs to go. He's turning me into a liberal.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: TravisT
Or, lets just follow the Geneva Convention and kill every single enemy that we encounter in war for not being in a uniform.

link?

 

[TravisT]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: TravisT
Or, lets just follow the Geneva Convention and kill every single enemy that we encounter in war for not being in a uniform.

link?

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/POW.HTM

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Pepsei
He needs to go. He's turning me into a liberal.

Bless you Pepsie. Welcome to a life of conscience.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

yes welcome to the real world, not the pretty picture that conservatives like to paint. They live in their own shells, and if you introduce anything new to them they'll hide and defend their old ways till their graves. It's truly sad.

 

[TravisT]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
yes welcome to the real world, not the pretty picture that conservatives like to paint. They live in their own shells, and if you introduce anything new to them they'll hide and defend their old ways till their graves. It's truly sad.

Actually, most of us, including myself, are willing to look at your side of the argument. However, you guys are so simple minded that you arn't willing to look at both sides of the picture.

For example, the war in Iraq. A huge discrepency here, you are only willing to point out that 40 people died, not that a lot of things have changed for the best over there in the short time we've been there.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: TravisT

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: TravisT
Or, lets just follow the Geneva Convention and kill every single enemy that we encounter in war for not being in a uniform.

link?

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/POW.HTM

2 things, firstly where does the Geneva Concention state you can "kill every single enemy that we encounter in war for not being in a uniform. " ?? The link you provided is about the symantics of what a prisoner of war is, not rules of engagement.

Secondly, using your link, the militants should be considered prisoners of war, because of:

That if a populace spontaneously rises up in defense of its territory without having time to organize formally, they are still entitled to treatment as prisoners of war provided they meet criteria c. and d.

You said something about a "uniform" too, while the language specifically states "a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance.
". Were not al-Sadr's militia wearing a distinctive black outfit ?

edit: Besides, what does any of your statements have to do with the topic of this thread, which is dead babies?

 

[TravisT]

lozina, this is where people get that idea:

Persons, such as guerrillas and partisans, who take up arms and commit hostile acts without having complied with the conditions prescribed by the laws of war for recognition as belligerents, are, when captured by the injured party, not entitled to be treated as prisoners of war and may be tried and sentenced to execution or imprisonment (FM 27-10 Par. 80).

Also, i gathered this just by seeing the photo's shown of the detainee's being mistreated in the last link he gave. Being at work, I was unable to view the first one.

I'm simply tired of seeing these pictures. There are more important things to worry about. Such as the color of panties we put on their head. The white ones don't go well with the darker complection. j/k

 

[arsbanned]

Well, when people are slaughtered in the streets of America (again) and those whom we have attacked celebrate, you'll understand.

 

[TravisT]

arsbanned, yep, and if we pull out of Iraq, it's bound to happen even sooner.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: TravisT
lozina, this is where people get that idea:

Persons, such as guerrillas and partisans, who take up arms and commit hostile acts without having complied with the conditions prescribed by the laws of war for recognition as belligerents, are, when captured by the injured party, not entitled to be treated as prisoners of war and may be tried and sentenced to execution or imprisonment (FM 27-10 Par. 80).

Also, i gathered this just by seeing the photo's shown of the detainee's being mistreated in the last link he gave. Being at work, I was unable to view the first one.

I'm simply tired of seeing these pictures. There are more important things to worry about. Such as the color of panties we put on their head. The white ones don't go well with the darker complection. j/k

Oh I see what you were talking about- I never checked out that second link. When I opened up the first one and saw that sick picture I closed it and figured the 2nd link was more of the same. I like to be able to sleep at night!

But in regards to your position on those Iraqi prisoners, I really think you oughta reconsider. It seems to me you are implying that torturing these prisoners is ok because they are not covered by Geneva Conventions, which is dead wrong for several reasons.

The link you supplied, was in reference to the al-Qaeda prisoners. The prison in Iraq is NOT populated by al-Qaeda members (although there may be some included of course) the vast majority are either Iraqi insurgents, members of former Iraqi army, or Iraqi civilians. (A report released recently and posted on this forum argued that 70-90% of those imprisoned were arrested 'by mistake'). And look how prisoners are being released by the hundreds lately after the public spotlight has focused on this prison.

More importantly, the most glaring problem with you trying to say those prisoners should not be considered POWs is- well why is the Pentagon putting these soldiers responsible on trial and sentencing them? Wouldn't the Pentagon of all organizations try to say they can't be covered by Geneva Conventions using your argument?

Finally, the Geneva Convention does not allow torture for anyone, even if they are not POWs. It states, in the text your quoted: "may be tried and sentenced to execution or imprisonment"

 

[nick1985]

:roll: * 1000...

 

[TravisT]

lozina, sorry if I come across that way. My stance is not that it is okay to torture prisoners. I do believe what they did to those people in Abu Graibe was horrible. But I also believe Bush when he says that those 7 people charged with these actions don't reflect the personality of our soldiers in general.

I'm simply awe-struck at how 7 people out of the hundreds can sway peoples feelings about somethign we are trying to accomplish. It's not good, it's not right, but lets move on past this. <-- my stance.

I believe we need to be more concerned about the way we're fighting this war. This war, with it's current path, will end up just like Vietnam. We are simply trying to be too 'politically correct' to win.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: TravisT
lozina, sorry if I come across that way. My stance is not that it is okay to torture prisoners. I do believe what they did to those people in Abu Graibe was horrible. But I also believe Bush when he says that those 7 people charged with these actions don't reflect the personality of our soldiers in general.

ok phew, i was getting worried about you for a second there!

but yes, i definitely agree that those soldiers does not represent our military as a whole. I'm glad they are being tried and sentenced so justice is served and Iraqi people see that we acknowledge the crimes and act to resolve them. The wrong thing to do would be to try and justify their acts, because then we'll just look as bad as Saddam. By bringing them to justice, we prove we are better than that.

 

[TravisT]

Oh certainly, i believe one has already plead guilty and is in prison and has been discharged already? Not 100% sure on this, but i believe i read it somewhere.

Anyhow, i agree, we do need to get these people out of our military. And I think once this happens things will begin looking better again. And hopefully the Iraqi's Civilian support of 61% will be on an uprising once again.

 

[gistech1978]

throw the rascals out.

 

[piasabird]

Sounds like hat speech to me. You know nothing about Sadam. I have talked to a man from Iraq and I know just how brutal Sadam was. If anyone said anything bad about Sadam bad things would happen. I heard a story where some teenage boy said something bad about Sadam and Sadam had every teanage boy in that village rounded up and detained for this one instance and no one ever saw them again! Sadam is the biggest murderer there ever was!

I am against the war but not because the media or my party told be to be against it. I knew in the beginning that what is happening now was going to happen. History repeats itself. You can not control these extremests unless you are a vicious killer like Sadam. We should have told the world we were demanding a refund for the world trade center from Saudia Arabia and bombed them when they refused. If you follow the money it flowed out from Saudia Arabia to the Al-Quida. It pays to know your enemy.

 

[piasabird]

Sounds like hat speech to me. You know nothing about Sadam. I have talked to a man from Iraq and I know just how brutal Sadam was. If anyone said anything bad about Sadam bad things would happen. I heard a story where some teenage boy said something bad about Sadam and Sadam had every teanage boy in that village rounded up and detained for this one instance and no one ever saw them again! Sadam is the biggest murderer there ever was!

I am against the war but not because the media or my party told be to be against it. I knew in the beginning that what is happening now was going to happen. History repeats itself. You can not control these extremests unless you are a vicious killer like Sadam. We should have told the world we were demanding a refund for the world trade center from Saudia Arabia and bombed them when they refused. If you follow the money it flowed out from Saudia Arabia to the Al-Quida. It pays to know your enemy.

 

[imported_Ivan244]

Piasabird-Yep, that's why you didn't see the Ethnic cleansing in the Former USSR until it disbanded. Everyone knew that it didn't matter who started what, any acting up and the Red Army would be rolling in the tanks killing *everyone*

But now that Saddam is gone all the dictator wannabes are grabbing for a piece of the pie. Which means we either have to be brutal or have a constant presence. Remember that these people have never really known freedom like what we have. They have always had someone telling them what to do. It was hard on Russia and it will be hard on Iraq.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Ivan244
Piasabird-Yep, that's why you didn't see the Ethnic cleansing in the Former USSR until it disbanded. Everyone knew that it didn't matter who started what, any acting up and the Red Army would be rolling in the tanks killing *everyone*

But now that Saddam is gone all the dictator wannabes are grabbing for a piece of the pie. Which means we either have to be brutal or have a constant presence. Remember that these people have never really known freedom like what we have. They have always had someone telling them what to do. It was hard on Russia and it will be hard on Iraq.

Ayup. What scares me, though, is that we all knew that but this administration, specifically those in charge of the nation's military (Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz), didn't!