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Bush Lies Again (what's new?) -- "Surge" May Require 35,000 - 48,000 Troops.

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Bush lied and thousands died. More Bush lies, and more thousands die. 🙁

Cliffs:

The Congressional Budget Office reports Bush's "surge" could cost as much as $10 billion this year, nearly triple the initial $3.2 billion price tag that Bush aides placed on it.

The cost could rise as high as $29 billion if the additional troops remain in Iraq for more than a year, and under traditional staging formulas, the added combat troops could require up to 28,000 support personnel, at a cost of another $12 billion through next year because thousands of support personnel would have to accompany those sent into combat.

It projected a range of costs tied to four scenarios for the surge, from one peaking at 35,000 troops and lasting 10 months to one peaking at 48,000 troops and lasting 18 months.

Story from The Mercury News:
Surge to cost triple Bush projection, CBO says

By James Rosen

McClatchy Newspapers

(MCT)

WASHINGTON - President Bush's decision to send more American troops to Iraq could cost as much as $10 billion this year, nearly triple the initial $3.2 billion price tag that Bush aides placed on the surge, the Congressional Budget Office said Thursday,

If the additional troops remain in Iraq for more than a year, the CBO said, the cost could rise as high as $29 billion. And under traditional staging formulas, the added combat troops could require up to 28,000 support personnel, at a cost of another $12 billion through next year.

"Thus far, the Department of Defense has identified only combat units for deployment," the CBO said. "However, U.S. military operations also require substantial support forces, including personnel to staff headquarters, serve as military police and provide communications, contracting, engineering, intelligence, medical and other services."

The Pentagon says it can undertake the surge with a smaller support contingent.

"CBO's report concludes that the cost of the president's plan to surge troops will be higher than previously indicated, both in dollar terms and in the burdens it places on our military," said Rep. John Spratt, D-S.C., the House Budget Committee chairman.

Sean Kevelighan, a White House budget office spokesman, disputed the CBO cost projection.

"We are still reviewing the report but maintain that additional brigades will cost $5.6 billion through `07," he said.

Kevelighan's figure was up from the $3.2 billion estimate that Bush aides had provided previously.

Congress already has appropriated $349 billion for the Iraq war, Spratt said. Bush is expected to send lawmakers an emergency spending bill next week seeking $100 billion more for the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, $80 billion of that for Iraq. He also will send his budget plan for the 2008 fiscal year next week, seeking tens of billions of dollars more for the wars.

The supplemental appropriations measure won't include money for the 21,500 new troops now en route to Iraq.

The new report on the cost of the surge comes as many Democratic lawmakers and some Republicans question the wisdom of sending more U.S. troops to Iraq.

Some Democrats have talked of trying to cut off money for more troops, but the party's congressional leaders so far have said they won't do so. Administration officials maintain that no extra money is needed because the added costs can be handled from existing Pentagon funds.

Spratt requested the CBO report along with Reps. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., the House Armed Services Committee chairman, and Martin Meehan, D-Mass., who heads the oversight and investigations subcommittee of the armed services panel.

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow reiterated the Bush administration's assertion that it can pay for the surge with money already appropriated to the Defense Department.

"The money is in the budget now for the five brigades into Baghdad and the 4,000 Marines into Anbar (province), and we would encourage everybody to take a look at what happens," Snow said.

That claim didn't satisfy Skelton.

"Because the president's advisers have indicated that they will pay for the troop increase from funds already provided to the Department of Defense, we were concerned that the full financial cost of the escalation would never be made clear to the American people," he said.

The Congressional Budget Office said the troop increase would cost more because thousands of support personnel would have to accompany those sent into combat.

It projected a range of costs tied to four scenarios for the surge, from one peaking at 35,000 troops and lasting 10 months to one peaking at 48,000 troops and lasting 18 months.

Whether fewer or more troops are dispatched, the increase will take three months to reach full force and three months for a withdrawal, the CBO said.

The agency gave cost projections for 48,000 new troops being in Iraq for four months at peak strength and for the same number for one year at peak strength; it made similar projections for 35,000 more troops over the same periods if fewer support personnel are needed as the Pentagon claims.

Snow, Bush's chief spokesman, said it was "tricky" to try to predict how long the additional troops would be needed.

"I won't give you an absolute timetable, but obviously the next six to eight months are going to be times when people expect to see something happening," he said. "But I would be very wary about trying to assign a specific date to it."

---

© 2007, McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.
Enough is e-freaking-nough! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:
 
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Edit - I forgot :thumbsdown::|:thumbsdown:

:laugh:
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Edit - I forgot :thumbsdown::|:thumbsdown:

:laugh:

Too Little Too Late.. He politicized our soldiers lives by being afraid to send the right amount the first time ..or is he just a stupd punch drunk?
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US
 
Isn't that the level of troops Joe "Finally, an African-American who doesn't smell is running for office" Biden, John "I spent more time talking about Vietnam than I actually served there" Kerry, et al presupposed we needed not too long ago?

Oh, but they all "support the troops" and have one of those $3.95 ribbons on their car (or his "family's" 5 SUVs in John's case) to prove it.

I think Rummy, General Casey, Dubya, and this entire administration has botched the war, but quit whining and playing both sides of the fence for political gains. Both parties make me sick.
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Nancy got the gavel, so the DNC should have hard**s over these statistics (and I am sure many in the party do). If these ratios hold through 2008, just think--we could have Hilarycare coming to an HMO near you.


 
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Where did I say that "Iraq has gone right"? I'm merely pointing out the constant hypocrisy of the Dems on this board. Instead of bitching and moaning about it, come up with a plan.

so, WTF ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

First of all, there is no "lib" group out there. No such thing.

Second, I have heard mostly that people want to withdraw and the surge plan is too little, too late. The OP complains that he exaggerated/lied about what he really wanted for his "new plan."
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Where did I say that "Iraq has gone right"? I'm merely pointing out the constant hypocrisy of the Dems on this board. Instead of bitching and moaning about it, come up with a plan.

so, WTF ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

The plan is to cut our losses and leave, get the surrounding countries to get involved as we leave.

You just don't like the plan. People with that attitude lost all of their money in the stock market in 2000.
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9The plan is to cut our losses and leave, get the surrounding countries to get involved as we leave.

"The surrounding countries" are already "involved," which is why we need more troops on the ground, as the Democrats stated before Cindy went back to Washington and threatened them.

I figured Democrats would know this, given the number of times they have visited Syria. I wonder if the DNC is sliding Syria some money from Nancy's corporations who don't have to pay a "living wage" in Samoa in an effort to "give them [the Syrian insurgents] the tools they need" to inflict more death on America so they win the '08 elections.


 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Where did I say that "Iraq has gone right"? I'm merely pointing out the constant hypocrisy of the Dems on this board. Instead of bitching and moaning about it, come up with a plan.

so, WTF ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

The plan is to cut our losses and leave, get the surrounding countries to get involved as we leave.

You just don't like the plan. People with that attitude lost all of their money in the stock market in 2000.

Actually, people with that attitude have made the money back that they lost, since they stuck with it and the market has hit new record highs. The cut and run types are the ones that lost all of their money. :laugh:

 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Where did I say that "Iraq has gone right"? I'm merely pointing out the constant hypocrisy of the Dems on this board. Instead of bitching and moaning about it, come up with a plan.

so, WTF ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

The plan is to cut our losses and leave, get the surrounding countries to get involved as we leave.

You just don't like the plan. People with that attitude lost all of their money in the stock market in 2000.

Actually, people with that attitude have made the money back that they lost, since they stuck with it and the market has hit new record highs. The cut and run types are the ones that lost all of their money. :laugh:

Oh really? So Lucent went from 150 to $ 0.75 and now it is back to $2.50!

Amazon is all the way back to... $38!

What stock market have you watched? If they held the huge winners from the 90s, they'd still be completely wiped out.
 
Originally posted by: JD50
So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc.
Grow up! They aren't mutually exclusive. Bushwhacko's "surge" is a piss poor case of spending good lives after bad for all the wrong reasons. That has nothing to do with the fact that, in addition, he's lying about what his latest misadventure will cost, both in money and in lives.

I'm still waiting for all you pissant chickensh8 chickenhawks to show your support by volunteering to go to Iraq and put your bodies on the line as part of this "surge." I still won't agree with you, but I might respect your opinion a little more.
Originally posted by: xxxInfidelxxx
Isn't that the level of troops Joe "Finally, an African-American who doesn't smell is running for office" Biden, John "I spent more time talking about Vietnam than I actually served there" Kerry, et al presupposed we needed not too long ago?
Nice way side track off the topic while distorting every irrelevant so-called "fact" in your sorry little post. :cookie:
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Where did I say that "Iraq has gone right"? I'm merely pointing out the constant hypocrisy of the Dems on this board. Instead of bitching and moaning about it, come up with a plan.

so, WTF ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

The plan is to cut our losses and leave, get the surrounding countries to get involved as we leave.

You just don't like the plan. People with that attitude lost all of their money in the stock market in 2000.

Actually, people with that attitude have made the money back that they lost, since they stuck with it and the market has hit new record highs. The cut and run types are the ones that lost all of their money. :laugh:

Oh really? So Lucent went from 150 to $ 0.75 and now it is back to $2.50!

Amazon is all the way back to... $38!

What stock market have you watched? If they held the huge winners from the 90s, they'd still be completely wiped out.

I have been watching the stock market that has recently hit record highs, mainly the DJIA. I was speaking in general terms of the overall stock market, not individual stocks.

 
Yahoo is back to $28 from 120!

Cisco is back to $26 from 100!

Oracle is back to $17 from 50!

Huge rebounds here!

Juniper Networks was $250, now it is 17!!!!! HUGE rebound.. good thing they didn't cut their losses at 100!

 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Who was it in the other thread that complaining about conservatives criticizing dems on what they are going to do and not what they have done?

So which is it Harvey, are you going to blame Bush for not sending enough troops because 20k just isn't enough, are you going to blame him for not supplying them with the proper equipment (which costs extra money, probably the money that you are complaining about now), etc..

Get it through your head. IT IS A BAD IDEA IN EITHER CASE... time to cut our losses.

I have seen libs saying that 20k is not enough for a troop surge and that he is not equipping them properly, now Harvey is complaining that he is sending more troops and spending more money on them (which will probably get them the required gear).

What about Iraq has gone right... care to tell us?

Or at least.. what has gone right in terms of cost to success ratio.. costs are

20,000 severley injured soldiers
3000+ dead soldiers
$300,000,000,000 +/- many BILLIONS

^^ WTF HAS ALL THAT ACHIEVED??? TELL US


Where did I say that "Iraq has gone right"? I'm merely pointing out the constant hypocrisy of the Dems on this board. Instead of bitching and moaning about it, come up with a plan.

so, WTF ARE THE DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

The plan is to cut our losses and leave, get the surrounding countries to get involved as we leave.

You just don't like the plan. People with that attitude lost all of their money in the stock market in 2000.

Actually, people with that attitude have made the money back that they lost, since they stuck with it and the market has hit new record highs. The cut and run types are the ones that lost all of their money. :laugh:

Oh really? So Lucent went from 150 to $ 0.75 and now it is back to $2.50!

Amazon is all the way back to... $38!

What stock market have you watched? If they held the huge winners from the 90s, they'd still be completely wiped out.

I have been watching the stock market that has recently hit record highs, mainly the DJIA. I was speaking in general terms of the overall stock market, not individual stocks.

Well, people didn't own the indeces that lost their millions.. they owned individual stocks and watched them go down to pennies... and they haven't rebounded. None of the huge gainers from the 90s have. Well, a couple, but very very very few have reached even close to even from their peaks in 2000.
 
Originally posted by: Harvey

I'm still waiting for all you pissant chickensh8 chickenhawks to show your support by volunteering to go to Iraq and put your bodies on the line as part of this "surge." I still won't agree with you, but I might respect your opinion a little more.


I respect the rest of your argument, but this part is getting a little old. Have you ever been a Police Officer? Probably not, so I hope that you don't ever comment on crime because your opinion won't mean crap since you aren't out there locking up the crackheads.

It is possible to support or not support military action and not be in the military. Should the President not have the ability to send any of our troops in harms way because he isn't picking up a rifle and going to fight himself? Do you want Generals making the decisions on when to go to war?

Stop with the silly strawman, it takes away from the rest of your argument.
 
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Harvey

I'm still waiting for all you pissant chickensh8 chickenhawks to show your support by volunteering to go to Iraq and put your bodies on the line as part of this "surge." I still won't agree with you, but I might respect your opinion a little more.


I respect the rest of your argument, but this part is getting a little old. Have you ever been a Police Officer? Probably not, so I hope that you don't ever comment on crime because your opinion won't mean crap since you aren't out there locking up the crackheads.

It is possible to support or not support military action and not be in the military. Should the President not have the ability to send any of our troops in harms way because he isn't picking up a rifle and going to fight himself? Do you want Generals making the decisions on when to go to war?

Stop with the silly strawman, it takes away from the rest of your argument.

The point is that it is much much much easier to "support the troops" while sitting and home risking nothing with nothing ever to be risked.
 
damn this sucks. Of course you know the administration had to be aware of this prior to releasing the information.

Maybe we should all just stop paying attention and spare ourselves the misery. that is what Bush and his henchmen want right?
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Well, people didn't own the indeces that lost their millions.. they owned individual stocks and watched them go down to pennies... and they haven't rebounded. None of the huge gainers from the 90s have. Well, a couple, but very very very few have reached even close to even from their peaks in 2000.

Ok, I'm not going to argue with you about the stock market, but what do you think makes up the DJIA, Nasdaq, etc.... They are just a collection of individual stocks, just like mutual funds. So something had to have rebounded for the Dow to hit record highs. Anyways, many many people invest in mutual funds, 401ks, etc...

 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Harvey

I'm still waiting for all you pissant chickensh8 chickenhawks to show your support by volunteering to go to Iraq and put your bodies on the line as part of this "surge." I still won't agree with you, but I might respect your opinion a little more.


I respect the rest of your argument, but this part is getting a little old. Have you ever been a Police Officer? Probably not, so I hope that you don't ever comment on crime because your opinion won't mean crap since you aren't out there locking up the crackheads.

It is possible to support or not support military action and not be in the military. Should the President not have the ability to send any of our troops in harms way because he isn't picking up a rifle and going to fight himself? Do you want Generals making the decisions on when to go to war?

Stop with the silly strawman, it takes away from the rest of your argument.

The point is that it is much much much easier to "support the troops" while sitting and home risking nothing with nothing ever to be risked.

Discounting someones opinion just because they are not in the military is ridiculous, which is what many of you try to do when someone advocates military action.

 
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