Bush jr, wow

[DAPUNISHER]

bbdub333 and JohnOfSheffield, take it to PMs please. Calling each other out here is pointless, you two can battle it out privately. Thanks for understanding.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
bbdub333 and JohnOfSheffield, take it to PMs please. Calling each other out here is pointless, you two can battle it out privately. Thanks for understanding.

Sorry, i'm in a pissy mood but your point is well taken.

I think i'm going to try to get some sleep now anyway and hope that the inferno of heat that is upon us goes away until it's time to move my butt again.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Bush amazes me the way he blatantly distorts the facts/outright lies. In this speech he cited the killing fields as a result of our pullout in Vietnam. In fact, the killing fields were in Cambodia, not Vietnam, were atrocities committed by Pol Pot, not communists, and were in fact only stopped when communist Vietnam invaded Cambodia to stop them and depose Pol Pot.

Post collapse Vietnam was no picnic in the park (very countries after such a long and devisive civil war would be) but it was hardly the genocide Bush pretends it was.

There are many valid comparisons between Vietnam and Iraq. Both wars were essentially unwinable from the get-go. Too bad GWB did consider that before he started his great adventure for Presidential fame.

Khmer were communist.

Vietnam invaded to protect Vietnamese that were in danger by the Khmer and also as a partial land grab.

Cambodia and Laos also became/were Communist.

Many South Viets were executed and/or sent to "indoctrination camps". This was just not publicized. Why do you think there was a flood of boat people?

Above information comes from multiple civilians that have been through it.
Both Cambodia and Vietnam.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Thump553
Bush amazes me the way he blatantly distorts the facts/outright lies. In this speech he cited the killing fields as a result of our pullout in Vietnam. In fact, the killing fields were in Cambodia, not Vietnam, were atrocities committed by Pol Pot, not communists, and were in fact only stopped when communist Vietnam invaded Cambodia to stop them and depose Pol Pot.

Post collapse Vietnam was no picnic in the park (very countries after such a long and devisive civil war would be) but it was hardly the genocide Bush pretends it was.

There are many valid comparisons between Vietnam and Iraq. Both wars were essentially unwinable from the get-go. Too bad GWB did consider that before he started his great adventure for Presidential fame.

Khmer were communist.

Vietnam invaded to protect Vietnamese that were in danger by the Khmer and also as a partial land grab.

And the Khmer Rouge were able to come to power and replace the government because of the destabilization caused by the US, who had led the overthrow of the neutral government.

The US repeats its mistakes: hard-line right-wingers in the US use the CIA to overthrow a 'neutral' or even 'left' regime only to cause a backlash of something worse later. Examples include overthrowing the leader of Iran to get better oil concessions which later led to the country's being ruled by the clerics; or even in Viet Nam where the nationalist Ho Chi Minh was made an enemy, or Fidel Castro who, while always a communist, was open to much better relations with the US; this policy almost led to nuclear war.

Other American leaders such as JFK have been more willing to work with non-optimal governments, to better respect the idea of other nations' independence.

While Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge are directly responsible for their crazy atrocities, the US has responsibility for the chaos causing them to be able to gain power.

Of course, those who care at all about non-Americans are likely already aware of this, and those who don't, could not care much less.