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Bush is planning on unleashing B2 bombers on Saddam??

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Every weapons platform has its strengths and weaknesses. Yes the B-2 is wicked expensive. But......
when they, along with F-117s, smash Saddam's defense network in hours and thereby save countless GIs, then, talk about the total cost of ownership. It will be well worth it.

Some of you can knock Bush and the USA all you want but it is ONLY the strength of the US military that allows the French, Germans, Canadians, (fill in the space), from being overrun by the other scumbags on this planet. It is with that in mind that we must spend the money for superior hardware, so that everyone knows that if they consider a confrontation with the US that we have the power to crush them. Leave no doubt about that. The righteous goal of the US military is to have overwhelming might. That no enemy will face us except to stab us in the back (ala 9/11).

 
Make a new bomber. Sell ALL the old ones to Canada. B52 is the best imho. Goes farther is way cheaper and has an intermediate payload.
 
Originally posted by: Munchies
Make a new bomber. Sell ALL the old ones to Canada. B52 is the best imho. Goes farther is way cheaper and has an intermediate payload.
Click to expand...

the canadians?! they can hardly remember where they put their tank! what the heck would they do with 200 strategic bombers?
 
Quote

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Originally posted by: Munchies
Make a new bomber. Sell ALL the old ones to Canada. B52 is the best imho. Goes farther is way cheaper and has an intermediate payload.
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the canadians?! they can hardly remember where they put their tank! what the heck would they do with 200 strategic bombers?
Click to expand...
I thought we all came to a conclusion it was an armored apc?. LOL. But no joke they need some help up there eh?
 
you know... with all this talk about american military abilities/planes, we've yet to see how any of them perform against a country that has real military power.. give me a break... cosovo, afganistan, even iraq... please...

if america got into a real war with say russia... (that would suck) things would be very different for the b2's and f117's alike...

i just love how everyone starts saying how b2's and so forth are such a big technological marvel and are so powerfull (which they are but) when you only compare them to country's that could be taken out if I took a 9mm and stuck a alpha up my ass.

the f117, and b2's and other technologies were developed in the 70's and 80's at the highet of the cold war.
at that time russia argueably (not by many though) had much better technology then the US. (i.e. mig29 vrs f16... please)
it's just when russia wants to keep it's technology a secret it does so.

I use russia in my examples because most country's that are threats to US have used and currently use russian military equimpent.
and cuz russia would kick the sh1t out of US if push came to shove.

 
at that time russia argueably (not by many though) had much better technology then the US
Click to expand...
That's funny. If the Soviets had any advantage it was in their engines which were more powerful than our standard GE powerplants. Of course they needed to be in order to lift their much heavier airframes.
 
"the f117, and b2's and other technologies were developed in the 70's and 80's at the highet of the cold war.
at that time russia argueably (not by many though) had much better technology then the US. (i.e. mig29 vrs f16... please)
it's just when russia wants to keep it's technology a secret it does so.

I use russia in my examples because most country's that are threats to US have used and currently use russian military equimpent.
and cuz russia would kick the sh1t out of US if push came to shove."


Since the Korean War, how many US planes have been shot down in Air to Air combat by anything the Warsaw Pact has put in the air?

Since the Korean War, how many Warsaw Pact planes have been shot down in Air to Air combat by US/Nato Planes?

If you need some help with this, just ask the Libyians or the Iraq's.


Yes Russia's technology was SO much better than the US's. How can one argue with that? After all, look at the can of whoop-ass the Iraqi's Russian made T-72 tanks spilled on the M1 Abrams :/ Yeah that high end technology really impressed me. I liked how the turrets popped off the T-72's when they got hit. The Russians designed them that way so the crew could get out easier :/

Next time you are going to talk out of your arse, please pull your pants down firts. Your voice was kind of muffled.

I leave you with an interesting link to ponder:


M1a1 Stuck in the mud vs 3 mobile T-72's during the Gulf War
 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
at that time russia argueably (not by many though) had much better technology then the US
Click to expand...
That's funny. If the Soviets had any advantage it was in their engines which were more powerful than our standard GE powerplants. Of course they needed to be in order to lift their much heavier airframes.
Click to expand...

Actually the soviets did have the Manpower to make stealth. The shape of the f-117 was designed with software that was created from a radar technology paper that came out of russian university.
 
Originally posted by: zhena
you know... with all this talk about american military abilities/planes, we've yet to see how any of them perform against a country that has real military power.. give me a break... cosovo, afganistan, even iraq... please...

if america got into a real war with say russia... (that would suck) things would be very different for the b2's and f117's alike...

i just love how everyone starts saying how b2's and so forth are such a big technological marvel and are so powerfull (which they are but) when you only compare them to country's that could be taken out if I took a 9mm and stuck a alpha up my ass.

the f117, and b2's and other technologies were developed in the 70's and 80's at the highet of the cold war.
at that time russia argueably (not by many though) had much better technology then the US. (i.e. mig29 vrs f16... please)
it's just when russia wants to keep it's technology a secret it does so.

I use russia in my examples because most country's that are threats to US have used and currently use russian military equimpent.
and cuz russia would kick the sh1t out of US if push came to shove.
Click to expand...


Iraq had the best soviet made air defenses outside any of the former republics. It was state of the art and the SAM's it used are the most accurate and deadly in the world. The US picked that defense network apart in less than 10 days. Iraq fielded the most advanced soviet tanks made and many were obliterated before they even saw the US forces. Saddam's Republican guard troops are cited to be as well trained as any soviet troops ever were, they were equiped with the most advanced weaponry made by the russians and the only group of them that tried to fight the coallition forces never fired a shot and lost half their regiment.

NATO trained forces employ the most advanced tactics in the world and field the most advanced weaponry in the world. They were trained to win the third war in europe against superior numbers. When we went into Iraq all the critics said we would have 25,000 casualties that Saddam had the 4th largest and one of the best armies in the world I think we all know how that turned out.
 
yes.. and the us had the first stable fual formula for rockets that went into space and they gave it to the russians...
yes.. and the us had the first sattelite in space...
and the us had the first man in space...
and the us had the first man walk outside the aircraft...
and the us had a space station that lasted for 15 YEARS...
and the us had the first hydrogen bomb...
and the us had a better intelegence network...

nobody is argueing that russia fvcked itself over with the whole communism thing
and killed millions of their own people and in general yada yada yada... not free
bla... bla... bla...

but i just love how the US is supposedly a free country has SOOOOO much propaganda..
take the whole "iraq had russian technology argument"
the iraq troops aren't trained worth shit...
the whole bombing tanks from the air? well duh..
us also hit a couple of british tanks and wiped them out..
iraq couldn't even get a plane off the ground..

yes yes.. the us military is the strongest in the world
and our (not i say our since i live in the us) highschool drop outs are highly trained...

come on...
the reason why the stealth technology was pushed so far.. is because US estimated in an armed conflict with russia
most planes would be shut down in the first couple of weeks...

i just loved it how CNN was reporting that the US planes have now achived air dominance of afganastan..
thats just a metaphor for everything else.

most people are so uninformed about the way things really work.
wanna see something real?
look at what happened in somalia..
with all so called survalance and advanced technology...
(yeah they didn't get their ac130 gunships still)
 
"take the whole "iraq had russian technology argument"
the iraq troops aren't trained worth shit..."

I knew this argument was going to come up. The Iraqi army had just been a 10 year war with Iran. This means that they had men in the field who actually had real, desert warfare trained and hardened combat veterans. How much actual fighting in the desert had the coalition forces had since WW2? None. So the Iraqi's had 10 years of in the field practical war fighting training. The US for example had only practice training and green troops.

I also gave you a perfect comparison between Warsaw pact equipment and US equipment. you probably didn't read it so I'll summerize for you.

m1a1 got stuck in the mud and the rest of the unit went on a head while it waited for a salvage vehicle to come and pull it out. 3 Russian built T-72's come up over a dune and begin firing on it. The Iraqi tanks score 3 hits on the Abrams and only one caused a crease in the armor of the M1a1. The other two caused no damage to the tank what so ever. The M1a1 responds by firing 3 rounds and destroys all three tanks. One of the shots being one that they shot through a sand berm and still destroyed the T-72 on the other side.

The Iraqi's were able to hit their target so that tosses out your argument that they were poorly trained. Also any superior American training was null and void because the M1a1 was immobile. Now the argument is a study on who has the better tank. I'd say that taking 3 direct hits and not only having no penetration of the crew compartment but not even being disabled vs being destroyed with one shot, one one of which was through a sand burm, shows quite clearly who had the better equipment.
 
Originally posted by: zhena
yes.. and the us had the first stable fual formula for rockets that went into space and they gave it to the russians...
yes.. and the us had the first sattelite in space...
and the us had the first man in space...
and the us had the first man walk outside the aircraft...
and the us had a space station that lasted for 15 YEARS...
and the us had the first hydrogen bomb...
and the us had a better intelegence network...

nobody is argueing that russia fvcked itself over with the whole communism thing
and killed millions of their own people and in general yada yada yada... not free
bla... bla... bla...

but i just love how the US is supposedly a free country has SOOOOO much propaganda..
take the whole "iraq had russian technology argument"
the iraq troops aren't trained worth shit...
the whole bombing tanks from the air? well duh..
us also hit a couple of british tanks and wiped them out..
iraq couldn't even get a plane off the ground..

yes yes.. the us military is the strongest in the world
and our (not i say our since i live in the us) highschool drop outs are highly trained...

come on...
the reason why the stealth technology was pushed so far.. is because US estimated in an armed conflict with russia
most planes would be shut down in the first couple of weeks...

i just loved it how CNN was reporting that the US planes have now achived air dominance of afganastan..
thats just a metaphor for everything else.

most people are so uninformed about the way things really work.
wanna see something real?
look at what happened in samolia..
with all so called survalance and advanced technology...
(yeah they didn't get their ac130 gunships still)
Click to expand...

I can't even begin to comprehend how you became such a fool. I don't know what happened in Samolia but I do know what happened in Somalia. We sent our troops somewhere they never should have been on a nation building mission. Then we tied their hands with such tight rules of engagement that they might as well have not had any weapons at all. Now as for our "high school dropouts being the highest trained in the world.....well I bet you would have a hard time finding a drop out in today's U.S. military. By the way, where are you from originally?
 
The B-2 costs are misleading! Half the cost of the B-2 program was the specialized maintenance hangars spread out across 38 locations world wide. These are high tech maintenance centers that can keep more than just the B-2 aflight, so they would have been funded regardless.

The technology that evolved from the Bradley fighting vehicle has benefitted alot of other programs, namely the M-1's survivability. The gyro-stabilization technology has even made its way into the Apache program. The technology that evolved from the B-2 has found itself into the F-22 interceptor. The radar evasion technology is not the technology of which I speak, it has more to do with passive sensors. You will find this technology in the ships of the Navy and interdiction vehicles of the Army in the next generation, too.

The costs of programs in the name of advancement are immeasurable. If you don't pay the price of achievement you get passed by.
 
Originally posted by: NFS4
the b52 is perfectly suited to its role. theres no need for stealth in the roles the b52 takes. neither of the other bombers can do what the b52 does. the payload is higher (by a lot, i think its 3x what the b1b is),
Click to expand...

B1B: Max internal payload, 75,000 lbs (Max external, 59,000 lbs)
B52: Max internal payload, 70,000 lbs
B2: Max internal payload, 40,000 lbs
Click to expand...

The B-1B program was a bargain and still is a bargain. We could have replaced the B-52 fleet for another $20 billion in the mid-1980's but we had far exceeded our pocket books by that point. Gramm-Rudman and all that nonsense in the latter half of that decade made it unthinkable to retire any more B-52s. 😛
 
B2 is amazing piece of technology

Hope it does its worth. Other than making a few rich, it has not shown its true powers, yet.

I would propose a $1+ billion Intelligence expenditure than another billion dollar bomber that bombs sheep and camels.


If Al Queda can have sleeper agents, we should have sleeper agents too within their group. It takes a diamond to cut another.
Or a thief to catch another.

Arab nations need a dose of GW Bush every now and then.

Glad it is coming soon ... I was in Tripoli, Libya in 1987 when Gaddafi got a dose .. left next day ( with all other US Oil company staff).

Most of you here do not know what it is living in a Islamic state under a dictator.

Here are some points about Libya :

1) All foreigners have different license plates on their vechiles so they can be identified and spotted.

2) All foreigners are required to report to Police every week.

3) No foreigner can buy property or even MARRY a citizen of their nation ( unless they convert to their religion)

4) No religious freedom .. we had our own Chapel and a temple ( for Bahais/Hindus/Jews ) inside our Oil Company Campus and could not even talk about it outside

5) My Toyota Landcruiser was stolen/vandalized/broken into 20 times in 2 years just because it had a foreigner's license plate.

6) Forget PC's ... a TYPEWRITER was confisticaed by customs ... you need a LICENSE from the Secret police to get a Typewriter/ PC/ Printer/ for personal use

7) No phone system ..... YES that POS country had no PRIVATE phones .. you need to go to a post office and make your calls. I managed due to Iridium and Intellisat phones from our company

8) Secret Police can call you and round you up for no reason and keep you in prison ( forget lawyers). It is due to our govt that US citizens get off easily .. people of other nations like Phillipines/Korea/India etc ...feel pity on them

9) Libya was making a $10 billion dollar "Great Man Made" river .. it is a system of giant pipes that carry water from white nile to the arid parts of Libya underground.
LAst I heard, that is no river, it could be a Chemical Weapons factory ...all under ground.
I wish we bomb that 900 mile underground factory .. its not what it seems.

10) No PHOTOGRAPHY allowed except with a pass from Secret Police ...

Now you might ask me what I was doing in hell ...

Well money is what draws people into hell .. My salary was 5 times in US and all savings .. At peak it was $1000/day in 1985-'87 during rig drilling.

It is a shame we have regimes like these on earth.
Iraq has the second largest Oil reserves.

Look what it has done to itself with that money. It is worse than Sub saharan africa.

These people do NOT deserve that oil .. they waste it and their lives.

Let someone else who values this resource and can use it for better reasons take over it.

GO BUSH and GET THAT SADDAM to heaven with his 72 virgins !!!!!!!!!!




 
Someone above mentioned Iraq has the best air defense of all after Russia and good trained troops, veterans of 10 year war with Iran.

Well that person is the fool of the day.

Iraq's military budget from 1970 has been $3 billion a year officially and $6-$7 billion unofficially.
Last 3 years it does not even have DIESEL for its tanks and trucks. All the refineries are shut off. Iran exports refined diesel to iraq.

How on Earth can Iraq match up to US ?

US vs Iraq is similar to as pointed out before : Tyson vs Flockhart in the ring. Interesting to watch but outcome pre decided.

There is NO comparision. No bravey and Nothing to be proud of. All we need is Saddam to go. And that oil to be used to our gain.


No use attacking Russia or France or China or even poor nations like India. Why to attack militarily when we rule over eveyone through economic/cultural/media might ?

Everything is done for a profit/loss logic in this world. Iraq war is also. So all you super patriots bimbos who clap at every bomb thrown, just give it a break and use your analytical thinking machine ( i fear you lack that also )

Think little deeper ..
Ask yourself who gains from this war most ? You ? HELL NO. You will be the first victims when any terrorist activity goes off on our soil.

Where as uncle Cheney and aunt Barabara will be in their 747 and Nebraskan bunkers watching you suffer from their TV sets. So will most rich and well off who play the primary role in running this capitalistic heaven.

Do not carried over by cheap thrills of US might and post 9/11 patriotism.

A nation of blind patriots is much much worse than a nation of questioning ones.

Whats the difference between you and Iraqis then ?


War is a profit loss game and we are lucky to be in the side that makes the profits. Simple.



 
Have you ever thought of getting checked for schizophrenia? Your last two posts were about as opposite as they can get...
 
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Have you ever thought of getting checked for schizophrenia? Your last two posts were about as opposite as they can get...
Click to expand...

Whew, I thought I was the only one.
 
Nothing wrong with his posts and nothing contradicted itself. You two seem upset with his freedom of opinion. Don't be pussies, learn to think for yourself.
 
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