Originally posted by: esso
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Uh... that's cuz Clinton SUCKED as a president and Bush is actually getting something done.
nik
9/11 gave Bush the excuse to declare war on something as ludicrous as "terror". Basically, it gives him license to run the US as a wartime nation until he fails to get re-elected in 2004.
The war on "terror" can never be won, because "terror" is a byproduct of war. A war on al-Qaeda, sure. A war on the Taliban? Why not. Declare war on Sri Lanka for all I care, at least there's a stopping point in sight. Not the endless state of fear, alerts, budgets in the red, and overall low self-esteem that the US has been reduced to.
The American people don't want war. They want their confidence restored, and a tangible enemy to be destroyed.
Sorry Al Queda is quite tangable. If you think it is intangable, you are a fool.
If you are living a life with low self esteem and fear, it is your fault. You can live that way, but I never will.
Originally posted by: tontod
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Originally posted by: X-Man
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Uh... that's cuz Clinton SUCKED as a president and Bush is actually getting something done.
nik
Getting something done?
Not really.
I don't know how Bush can be blamed for anything, considering hardly any legislation or judicial nominees have gotten past the Senate.
All Clinton did was sell secrets to the Chinese, utterly demilitarize (or attempt to) the country, and con a dumb intern to fall in love with him so he could get some head under the desk while he made phone calls to the middle east to make it look like he was doing something productive.
nik
Um, Clinton actually increased military spending in his last couple of years in office including pay. Let me mention a specific instance - he (along with Democrats) fought to build the 3rd submarine in the Seawolf class which is being built by Electric Boat. The Republicans wanted the class ended at just 2 subs.
Plus, priorities kinda changed after the cold war was over in the early 90's, some cuts were inevitable.
spending != military quantity or quality is improving. He actually SHRUNK our numbers.
nik
Guess I'm part of the 33 percent.
Well its not so much Bush that I hate, its more the people he works with. But he is the figure head, so bah!
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
clinton hated the military so much he proposed the biggest increase in pentagon spending since 1984
he raised military pay and health care funding in the military, such hate indeed.
wonder how much bush sr cut the military? quite a lot. get over it.
Which major spending increase was proposed by clinton? The 90s was a decade of military downsize.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
clinton hated the military so much he proposed the biggest increase in pentagon spending since 1984
he raised military pay and health care funding in the military, such hate indeed.
wonder how much bush sr cut the military? quite a lot. get over it.
Which major spending increase was proposed by clinton? The 90s was a decade of military downsize.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/08/09/defense.bill/
Tominator Quote:
-------------------------
Moonbeam
Do you ever think for yourself? You are reciting nearly word for word the Democrat party line for this election. An election that reeks of desparation!
---------------------
Well what can I say. I had no idea the Democrats were so intelligent. I thought that all up myself. I pay very little attention to Democrats but even less to Republicans. As for being desparate, I am. I have great faith in the American people and value their opinion. It distresses me to no end that they like Bush. He makes me cringe. It's a dilema for me. I feel their is an intutive wisdom there and yet I can't see it. Does that make you gleeful. Help yourself if it does. Maybe things will change. Bush is a disaster from my point of view, but I always remember I could be wrong, except of course about evolution and the Florida vote.
-------------------------
Moonbeam
Do you ever think for yourself? You are reciting nearly word for word the Democrat party line for this election. An election that reeks of desparation!
---------------------
Well what can I say. I had no idea the Democrats were so intelligent. I thought that all up myself. I pay very little attention to Democrats but even less to Republicans. As for being desparate, I am. I have great faith in the American people and value their opinion. It distresses me to no end that they like Bush. He makes me cringe. It's a dilema for me. I feel their is an intutive wisdom there and yet I can't see it. Does that make you gleeful. Help yourself if it does. Maybe things will change. Bush is a disaster from my point of view, but I always remember I could be wrong, except of course about evolution and the Florida vote.
Approval ratings are always high during war or threat of war...doesn't matter who we're fighting. Clinton's approval rating was around this high at the time he was being impeached.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
clinton hated the military so much he proposed the biggest increase in pentagon spending since 1984
he raised military pay and health care funding in the military, such hate indeed.
wonder how much bush sr cut the military? quite a lot. get over it.
Which major spending increase was proposed by clinton? The 90s was a decade of military downsize.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/08/09/defense.bill/
Ah the joy of playing with numbers. It was a large increase, but the force size is about 1/2 what it was in 90. I wonder what it would work out to in inflation adjusted dollars.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
If the economy is still in the dumper this time next year his approval rating will be a lot lower unless we are in an armed conflict with Iraq or some other nation. I'm not saying that it would be his fault the economy still sucks (if indeed it does) it's just that enough Americans will perceive him going a crappy job because of a poor economy. Then again if we are at war and the war is going good for us then his approval ratings will get a boost just like they did after 9/11.
Of course if it were Gore in office with the same situation he'd probably get the same ratings too. I believe this would be the case because it's the office of the President that's actually getting the vote of confidence, not the man holding the office. This is a direct result of American Patriotism brought on by 9/11 and the war against terrorism. Personally I don't think he's doing a bad job so I guess I would approve of the job he is doing considering the circumstances. However, I think if we would have a man like John McCain as President the American public would have even more confidence in the President because he wouldn't give impression of being somewhat of a mental lightweight that Bush does not saying he is, but it's hard not to think that way of him occasionally when he makes a fool out of himself when he speaks in public.
Of course if it were Gore in office with the same situation he'd probably get the same ratings too. I believe this would be the case because it's the office of the President that's actually getting the vote of confidence, not the man holding the office. This is a direct result of American Patriotism brought on by 9/11 and the war against terrorism. Personally I don't think he's doing a bad job so I guess I would approve of the job he is doing considering the circumstances. However, I think if we would have a man like John McCain as President the American public would have even more confidence in the President because he wouldn't give impression of being somewhat of a mental lightweight that Bush does not saying he is, but it's hard not to think that way of him occasionally when he makes a fool out of himself when he speaks in public.
The Republicans are the party of fear. National defense, drug wars, national security, communists in our soup, terrorists in our Wheaties, the Iraqi in the closet, we're becoming a nation of moral decay. What ever people fear you'll find a Republican campaigning on that cause. Democrats have the impossible task of taking the higher road. When there's a threat, real or imagined, the chimps climb their trees and scream Republicans save us.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
clinton hated the military so much he proposed the biggest increase in pentagon spending since 1984
he raised military pay and health care funding in the military, such hate indeed.
wonder how much bush sr cut the military? quite a lot. get over it.
Which major spending increase was proposed by clinton? The 90s was a decade of military downsize.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/08/09/defense.bill/
Ah the joy of playing with numbers. It was a large increase, but the force size is about 1/2 what it was in 90. I wonder what it would work out to in inflation adjusted dollars.
of course the numbers are lower. even reagan started cutting the forces after the soviets fell, bush continued the cuts. the republican house/senate continued the cuts. perhaps you could point to them as the source of the decline
and ofcourse, say we spent a constant cold war level and never changed. 9/11 would have still hapened.
Gonna have to call you on this since you used the word "the" and not "a". The democrats are also a party of fear. They use scare tactics to fool people into thinking they'll lose their Social Security, Medicare benefits, Welfare, etc. Similarly, they run ads to scare voters away from R candidates.
The Politics of Fear is another political tool used by political tools. If they have to scare you into behaving a certain way what does that tell you about their character?
Humbug. Even though it's Halloween, I just can't smile and dismiss this away because I believe fear tactics are beyond disgusting and ultimately lead to that societal decay you mentioned in your post.
Actions taken out of fear are almost always irrational and they lead to hating the target of that fear. It's very easy to exploit people who live in fear in anger but that's why they do it I suppose.
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: esso
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Uh... that's cuz Clinton SUCKED as a president and Bush is actually getting something done.
nik
9/11 gave Bush the excuse to declare war on something as ludicrous as "terror". Basically, it gives him license to run the US as a wartime nation until he fails to get re-elected in 2004.
The war on "terror" can never be won, because "terror" is a byproduct of war. A war on al-Qaeda, sure. A war on the Taliban? Why not. Declare war on Sri Lanka for all I care, at least there's a stopping point in sight. Not the endless state of fear, alerts, budgets in the red, and overall low self-esteem that the US has been reduced to.
The American people don't want war. They want their confidence restored, and a tangible enemy to be destroyed.
Sorry Al Queda is quite tangable. If you think it is intangable, you are a fool.
If you are living a life with low self esteem and fear, it is your fault. You can live that way, but I never will.
al-Qaeda is quite tangible; I even mentioned that (which brings up the question, did you read what I wrote?)
"Terror" is not tangible. Declaring war against "terrorism" is not tangible. Naming countries like Iran, North Korea, and Iraq as the "axis of evil" was not only a political blunder, but it committed the US to lot more than international dilemmas than we should be involved in.
In fact, Bush's speeches have done some REAL damage internationally. Putin (Russia's President) is now taking what Bush said (war on terror) and applying it to his situation with the Chechen separatists. Are the Chechens terrorists? Not at all. In fact, the US has given money, weapons, and training to many separatist movements globally (from the Contras in S. America, to our current training of Kurdish separatists in Iraq). But under Bush's definition, the Chechens are in fact "evil-doers". And the sad thing is, the US can't speak against Putin's actions publically because it would convey a double-standard (much like the double-standard uncovered when North Korea unveiled it's secret nuclear program, and we wanted to deal with them diplomatically).
And while I think [Big Gay Al]it's suuuuper[/Big Gay Al] that you're not living in fear, many recent public polls have shown high levels of fear within our society, as well as low confidence (consumer, economic, etc.). But, heck what the public feels, right? As long as you're ok, the US is in great shape!
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