Bush finally admits Iraq similar to Vietnam

[Lemon law]

To Starbucks1975,

You just don't get it do you?----no one is argueing with you that TET was not a military blunder on the part of the N. Vietnamese---the point you can't grasp is that the N. VietNamese
just picked up and went on in their resistance-- on that day the wise realised that we would have to kill them all to stop them.---with the roles reversed---it was a democratic President who fell---but at least a wiser one who knew he must pay the forfeit for a blunder.---still leaving the door open for a deeply divided democratic party to self distruct
on the streets of Mayor Daly's Chicago.---and sadly a fine man---Hubert Humprey also paid the price of pandering to a policy---torn between loyality and reality---and no longer credable to either---we got Nixon.

It took almost five years for a dumber Richard Nixon to realise the same thing.---as he kept knocking them down---but they still kept coming.---with the same message---throw the foreign devils out----the same rallying cry that made VietNam a nation for thousands of years.

And here we are in 2006---and a far far dumber Starbucks1975 still has not learned the obvious lesson from history---and now still tries to sell his version of revisionist history to this forum.-------the only person you fool is yourself.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Wow the Wikiality is stong in this.

Why not...wikipedia is often an unbiased and fairly accurate resource for providing a reader's digest version of historical events...interpretation of said events is another story.

You just don't get it do you?----no one is argueing with you that TET was not a military blunder on the part of the N. Vietnamese---the point you can't grasp is that the N. VietNamese just picked up and went on in their resistance-- on that day the wise realised that we would have to kill them all to stop them.

What I can grasp is that the only threat to the South Vietnamese government was a continued Viet Cong presence...after Tet, the Viet Cong were left with heavy losses and largely incapable of posing much of a threat...similarly, the NVA were hardly in a position to launch another offensive and pose a threat to an autonomous South Vietnam...we could very easily have established a peace similar to that on the Korean peninsula...what our forces lacked, due to political constraints, was the flexibility to pull a MacArthur like offensive and take the fight to the North Vietnamese.

It took almost five years for a dumber Richard Nixon to realise the same thing.---as he kept knocking them down---but they still kept coming.---with the same message---throw the foreign devils out----the same rallying cry that made VietNam a nation for thousands of years.

True, this was an aspect of Vietnamese culture that America was largely ignorant of...that the Vietnamese had a long history of repelling foreign invaders, and Ho Chi Minh quite successfully appealed to that cultural dynamic...hence his ability to remain in control despite numerous strategic military blunders.

And here we are in 2006---and a far far dumber Starbucks1975 still has not learned the obvious lesson from history---and now still tries to sell his version of revisionist history to this forum.-------the only person you fool is yourself.

Nothing I have posted is revisionist...I never claimed Vietnam wasa noble war, and under the strategy we followed it was not a winnable war...similarly, I have been highly critical of our strategy, or lack thereof, going into Iraq.

Oh, and your snide and childish remarks do not make you correct.

 

[BoomerD]

I expect that trying to hand Iraq over to the Iraqi's will end up much the same as the "Vietnamization" of the Vietnam war did. Remember the Easter Offensive? I sure do...I was there...
The NVA kicked our asses all over the country for several months. We FINALLY pushed them back, but we ( US troops and ARVN) took heavy casualties doing it. It's considerd to be America's last battle in the Vietnam war. We started pulling out not long afterward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Offensive

 

[Lemon law]

What I can grasp is that the only threat to the South Vietnamese government was a continued Viet Cong presence.

There is your error Starbucks1975---as soon as the US entered into VietNam---the S. Vietnamese government ceased to matter as anything but the role of US puppet---and for almost everyone outside of Saigon---that city might as well have been on another planet---just as Karzi is the defacto mayor of Kabul today.---its the people that matter---when you lose them, you are lost.

But I am glad to see that you are starting to realise that alternative strategies could have worked---just as they might have worked in Afganistan and Iraq---and could well work still if radical changes are adopted----------but the leaders we had in VietNam---of two different parties---and the leaders we have now---of just one party as of NOW---were and still are stuck on might is right.---and focus on governments and can't see its the tree that makes the forest.---and not the other way around.

And I do owe you an apology---I get very sad and angry discussing these issues---you are not the problem---its the defective ideas that are the problem---and our leaders that have them.----and just can't seem to learn from history.

 

[Starbuck1975]

And I do owe you an apology---I get very sad and angry discussing these issues---you are not the problem---its the defective ideas that are the problem---and our leaders that have them.----and just can't seem to learn from history.

Fair enough...but that being said, what civilization has ever truly learned from history...granted, that should not serve as an excuse by any stretch of the imagination...but I do recognize that foreign policy is tricky business, and the decision to engage in war is not to be take lightly...although in hindsight, it is easier to make determinations on what should have or could have been done.

The NVA kicked our asses all over the country for several months. We FINALLY pushed them back, but we ( US troops and ARVN) took heavy casualties doing it. It's considerd to be America's last battle in the Vietnam war. We started pulling out not long afterward.

Having served there, you can certainly speak with more authority on the matter...although in all fairness, the ARVN with U.S. military support was successful in repelling the NVA on numerous occasions...that South Vietnam fell once America withdrew from the region is a tragedy...my uncle served in Vietnam as well, and often speaks highly of the bravery demonstrated by the ARVN.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Harvey
The difference between Viet Nam and Iraq is, Bush, Jr. knew how to get out of Viet Nam.

you going to credit Conan for that? Or are you claiming it as your own? What else are you parroting? your avatar fits quite well :laugh: