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Bush energy policy

daniel49

Diamond Member
I looked first 4 pages + did a search function so if this is a repeat I apologize.

firstly I am glad a president no matter what party he is finally realizes the need for an energy policy/plan.

I got to tell you though nuclear still make me want to say no.
Not because producing the energy isn't safe, but I am not convinced they have an adequate solution to the waste products produced.

I know they still haven't found a solution for the leaking mess at Hanford Nuclear site in washington. Much less what its going to cost.

I understand now that about 20% of electricity in US is nuclear.

Your thoughts more interested in discussing energy then bashing bush... thank you
 
They finally get that Nuclear is a great source for power? Or did they always know that and just didn't want to hurt the poor fossil fuel business 🙂.
 
Hanford is a disaster, however that is all byproduct from the nuclear weapons progam not the commercial nuclear industry. The waste can be safely stored long term if done correctly.

The only way to greatly reduce our reliance on fossil fuels in the relatively near future is nuclear power.
 
Originally posted by: Amplifier
They finally get that Nuclear is a great source for power? Or did they always know that and just didn't want to hurt the poor fossil fuel business 🙂.


The first few plants in the US turned many off to nulear power.

I remember living up near Rancho Seco and the continuous protests from the pinko hippies that used to bus in from San francisco.
 
Originally posted by: Amplifier
They finally get that Nuclear is a great source for power? Or did they always know that and just didn't want to hurt the poor fossil fuel business 🙂.

so you have no concerns over producing nuclear power is that your opinion? The technology is safer then moms apple pie and we know what to do with radioactive elements that have half lifes of ten thousand years...comon some serious discussion or will move to highly technical:laugh: jk
 
I think the main problem with nuclear is necessity of nearby body of water for cooling. Areas surrounding bodies of water are generally highly populated, so NIMBY arguements pop up.
 
Originally posted by: K1052
Hanford is a disaster, however that is all byproduct from the nuclear weapons progam not the commercial nuclear industry. The waste can be safely stored long term if done correctly.

The only way to greatly reduce our reliance on fossil fuels in the relatively near future is nuclear power.

yes, that is correct about the hanford waste what is the present solution for commercial do you know and is there a downside to it as well.
contamination of storage facilities, earthquakes,seeping into ground water????
would love to learn some new facts if you have them as that is my major concern
 
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: K1052
Hanford is a disaster, however that is all byproduct from the nuclear weapons progam not the commercial nuclear industry. The waste can be safely stored long term if done correctly.

The only way to greatly reduce our reliance on fossil fuels in the relatively near future is nuclear power.

yes, that is correct about the hanford waste what is the present solution for commercial do you know and is there a downside to it as well.
contamination of storage facilities, earthquakes,seeping into ground water????
would love to learn some new facts if you have them as that is my major concern

Find a geologically stable site and plan accordingly. If you think water infiltration might be a problem down the road than build in passive drainage systems to siphon off the water before it gets into the repository. Build waterproof casks that will last long enough for the raidoactivity to decay to relatively safe levels.

There are solutions.
 
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: Amplifier
They finally get that Nuclear is a great source for power? Or did they always know that and just didn't want to hurt the poor fossil fuel business 🙂.

so you have no concerns over producing nuclear power is that your opinion? The technology is safer then moms apple pie and we know what to do with radioactive elements that have half lifes of ten thousand years...comon some serious discussion or will move to highly technical:laugh: jk

I never said Nuclear Energy is 100% safe. It is safe when used/disposed properly. It isn't rational to shun it in favor of highly pollutive fossil fuels because of a phobia, or worse politics 🙂.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
I think the main problem with nuclear is necessity of nearby body of water for cooling. Areas surrounding bodies of water are generally highly populated, so NIMBY arguements pop up.

Any industrial plant needs a source of water. This water can be piped from as far away as needed. Locating any industrial site near a body of water is not necessary.

The #1 problem in the nuclear industry is overcoming a negative public perception. Nuclear power was becoming a force until the infamous Three-Mile island incident. Even though there was zero radioactive contamination released to the enviroment, alot of people turned against anything nuclear. In fact, ther have been exactly ZERO permits applied for to build a new nuclear plant since the incident. Many Nuc plants have been built since then, but every one of them already had applied for a permit.

The #2 problem is that it takes approximately 10 years to build a Nuclear plant. A combined cycle plant (using natural gas and/or fuel oil) can be built in <3 years. Companies are understandbly hesitant to invest the time and money into a nuclear plant when others can be built so much quicker and cheaper.
 
Originally posted by: K1052
Hanford is a disaster, however that is all byproduct from the nuclear weapons progam not the commercial nuclear industry. The waste can be safely stored long term if done correctly.

The only way to greatly reduce our reliance on fossil fuels in the relatively near future is nuclear power.


Agreed, but it takes 10+ years to build a nuclear reactor 🙁
 
has there ever been any great advances in solar energy? we have this big burning furnace in the sky yet we can't figure out what to do with it.
 
There are many misconceptions here and in the world in general about Nuclear Power Plants.

One is that coal fired plants(the most common) are cleaner. This is simply untrue. Not only due they produce more radioactive waste in their emissions, but also many other harmful chemicals. The only difference is that a nuclear power plant concentrates the radioactive isotopes into a containable and transportable form. Coal fired plants instead exhaust all their emissions into the air (both radioactive and chemical) so that you and I can breath them; Do you think it is a coincidence that incidences of cancer have skyrocketed in the last century?

Also, there are power plant designs that exist to limit or virtually eliminate all long-lived radioactive isotopes from the spent fuel. They are called fast breeder reactors. The basic premise is to refine the spent fuel cells into new ones and re-use the waste material. The US government cancelled all government funding for this type of reactor after the 3-mile Isle incident. The US now severly lags behind France and Japan in theoritical and practical design and application in this type of reactor. Yes I do admit that the two protoype breeder reactors built in France and Japan aren't that successfull, but there are rarely any first generation designs in any field that are. It is theoritically possible for these type of reactors to be efficient and practical, but it will take years of practice and research to do this.

Also current reactor designs are more efficient providing for an increase in power generation per unit fuel while producing less radioactive waste. Almost all of our current power plants are earlier designs, therefore less effecient.

So as far as Bush's energy policy regarding the expansion of Nuclear power plants, I am in favor. However, drilling in the ANWR I am against. He would do better to subsidize hybrid vehicles to encourage their widespreed use, this would have a much greater effect of lowering US dependance on foriegn oil and also lowering air pollution, while keeping the Hippies and caribou happy.
 
Haven't read through the policy, but there really needs to be a push to increase gas mileage standards. Also, I might suggest spending a little time/money on re-timing/sensoring stop lights in the US. Stopping a whole line of traffic to let one car onto the highway when you can simply let the string pass and then let the car onto the highway is very wasteful. More gas is used on acceleration from a stop than at any other time.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
Haven't read through the policy, but there really needs to be a push to increase gas mileage standards. Also, I might suggest spending a little time/money on re-timing/sensoring stop lights in the US. Stopping a whole line of traffic to let one car onto the highway when you can simply let the string pass and then let the car onto the highway is very wasteful. More gas is used on acceleration from a stop than at any other time.

Agreed.
 
Originally posted by: Amplifier
Originally posted by: Engineer
Haven't read through the policy, but there really needs to be a push to increase gas mileage standards. Also, I might suggest spending a little time/money on re-timing/sensoring stop lights in the US. Stopping a whole line of traffic to let one car onto the highway when you can simply let the string pass and then let the car onto the highway is very wasteful. More gas is used on acceleration from a stop than at any other time.

Agreed.

Ditto

Here's some info on a fuel economy amendment that never passed... http://www.40mpg.org/getinf/congress_votes.cfm#amend1
 
Originally posted by: rickn
has there ever been any great advances in solar energy? we have this big burning furnace in the sky yet we can't figure out what to do with it.

I was listening to a program about energy this morning and according to the host to provide our electricity needs we would have to cover the entire state of Indiana with solar panels. So if you can get those folks to go along I guess that will work.

Also some contries are still playing with fussion reactors but I think thats a long ways off
 
Actually, there is a strong potential for safe nuclear energy. China actually pushing and developing the pebble-bed technology as regards nuclear reactors. Instead of using hot water and fuel rods, they're looking to use masses of billiard sized balls with flecks of uranium while the core is immersed in uranium. I don't have an in-depth understanding of the technology but it offers many advantages primarily it's safety - it's a hell of alot cooler and in fact it can cool itself down passively if turned off. Anyway, another major advantage is that far less pressure is generated meaning no super expensive pressure dome, while other parts in general can be lower-tech and very easily, quickly and cheapily mass produced compared to current-affair powerplants. Some speculation but I'd suspect these reactors would have a longer lifetime of use (less pressure etc so less degradation) and also it'd be cheaper to run/maintain as there's nothing overtly complex to maintain. The idea is China could build thousands of small reactors using that technology across China to supply most of its energy needs. The only possible problems with the technology is that helium particles are small enough that they could readily escape if not isolated properly.

For your reading pleasure.

Of course it'd just be like the US government to just now (regardless of the new tech) the waste billions on pointlessly building old-style large reactors that would also take 10 years to come online. If right these new style reactors could be built MUCH faster and provide a real alternative to the declining oil supplies by not coming too late.

The only other problem is that nuclear energy has has its own hubbert's peak as such - i think estimates were 2085 although I think that might be at current rate of use and not assuming a massive explosion of nuclear reactors.

On that note, where are all the deposits of Uranium? Will they become the new middle east(s). So, I suspect there'll be a new attempt to encroach on Native American land then (and pay them nothing) given they have about 1/3 of all US uranium deposits on their reservations - Black Hills right? Doing a bit more reading it seems among the largest deposits are in Australia while also Canada, Kazakhstan, South Africa, Namibia, Brazil all also have large deposits. On that note Canada might have to look forward to more US involvement. Also, I wonder given Kazakstan's positions whether it'll be Russia or China to invade first with the US maybe as an outside chance (...a joke before anyone on the Right gets upset!)


I think the South Africans were also experimenting with this technology for a while although I'm not sure they got as much of a working prototype as the Chinese. Anyway, it's a real shame not more research had been put into this in the West otherwise we'd have it developed and ready by now - it's not overtly complex technology by any means. Really, it's somewhat telling about the decline of Western tech leadership and indeed beurocratic corruption (oil companies *cough*) that it has to be a developing nation developing such a leap forward in technology.

Also, yeah wind turbines out at sea are a far better idea - more reliable source of wind and you can build them much larger. Of course, there are increased set-up and maintance costs thoughl. The UK has been erecting some of its SW coast in fact.

(edited)
 
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: rickn
has there ever been any great advances in solar energy? we have this big burning furnace in the sky yet we can't figure out what to do with it.

I was listening to a program about energy this morning and according to the host to provide our electricity needs we would have to cover the entire state of Indiana with solar panels. So if you can get those folks to go along I guess that will work.

Also some contries are still playing with fussion reactors but I think thats a long ways off

Solar panels are very inefficient.
I think the hope for solar energy is in these mirror concentrators that heat a boiler powering a generator stirling engine. Those are a lot more efficient and easier to produce than solar panels. Solar energy is perfect for southern states where peak power usage corresponds directly to AC usage from Solar heating. So you can address the power demand from AC usage by using solar energy very well.
I know a guy who used to build these solar mirror reflector generators for Russian Antarctic expeditions. They used them to generate power and to melt snow for water.
 
Just a bit more on where uranium is located and the amounts at the current state of exploration:

Estimated Recoverable Resources* of Uranium

Tonnes U3O8 % of world
Australia 889,000 27%
Kazakhstan 558,000 17%
Canada 511,000 15%
South Africa 334,000 11%
Namibia 256,000 8%
Brazil 232,000 7%
Russian Fed. 157,000 5%
USA 125,000 4%
Uzbekistan 125,000 4%
World total 3,340,000


Australia the new energy superpower! All those economies will undoubtedly reap rich economic rewards in the coming future.
 
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