Haha, well I would say that illegal immigrants aren't an invading army so the argument that we would be using the National Guard for border defense doesn't exactly work here. Besides, why would you train the military for border patrol missions when you can simply hire and train border patrol agents? The military tends to have a "shoot first, ask questions later" type of policy which doesn't work very well in a civilian environment. There are also a lot of Constitutional issues with using the military for domestic purposes.
Btw, the correct spelling is "border" and not "boarder".
Hooray for corrupt police and hiding evidence.
Also, they didn't know he was a smuggler until after the case was examined.
Also, they didn't know he was a smuggler until after the case was examined.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 73,161
- 34,484
- 136
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I wasn't aware that shooting someone in the ass was considered murder.
Correction: attempted murder. The point still stands. Bush freed a pair of violent thugs who wore law enforcement uniforms while committing their crimes.
Ozoned
Diamond Member
- Mar 22, 2004
- 5,578
- 0
- 0
No, they didn't get charged with that either.Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I wasn't aware that shooting someone in the ass was considered murder.
Correction: attempted murder. The point still stands. Bush freed a pair of violent thugs who wore law enforcement uniforms while committing their crimes.
Overall, I would venture to say that a bigger issue here is one of the presidential power to grant pardons. To the framers of the Constitution this power was important because of the way that the law was applied back in the 17th and 18th centuries. In England it was fairly common for minor offenses to carry a death sentence and only the King of England, or, in this case, the president of the US, could grant a pardon. However, today, the law doesn't quite work the same way and a pickpocket (for example) won't be sentenced to death. IMHO, the presidential power to grant pardons should be modified through a Constitutional amendment so that Congress has to review and approve or disapprove of the pardon before it goes into effect. Currently there is no oversight and the president can issue a pardon or commute a sentence without having to explain his actions.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 73,161
- 34,484
- 136
Originally posted by: Ozoned
No, they didn't get charged with that either.Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I wasn't aware that shooting someone in the ass was considered murder.
Correction: attempted murder. The point still stands. Bush freed a pair of violent thugs who wore law enforcement uniforms while committing their crimes.
So they've been handled with kit gloves throughout the whole ordeal. Anyone shooting a BP agent in the ass would be up for attempted murder no doubt.
PS: Looks like I'm more than a wee bit owned here.
I haven't the foggiest notion why anyone would celebrate the release of two convicted felons, but leave it to the usual yahoos @ P&N.
Because the sentences did not fit the crime at all. I was always fine with them doing some time, but not 10 and 11 years.
Seems appropriate to me for two men sworn to uphold the law who then shot some dude in the ass while he was running away and then proceeded to cover it up and lie about it. But then, perhaps in the south this is par for the course?
brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
Agreed! I too wish it was full pardon, but at least the President stepped in and did the right thing - same as the two agents were doing.
Dr. Detroit
Diamond Member
- Sep 25, 2004
- 8,561
- 951
- 126
My correlation is to highlight why we need to secure the border - cheap drugs mean more addicts - cheap illegal labor means a decline in low-wage jobs & more US citizens on welfare without a tax base to support the increased cosots of education healthcare, and welfare.
The open border is the issue and we have many reason to close it - illegal drugs & illegal aliens are just two of them.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
Originally posted by: networkman
Agreed! I too wish it was full pardon, but at least the President stepped in and did the right thing - same as the two agents were doing.
You know what would make a helluva lot more sense? Strengthening our border infrastructure and policies regarding illegal immigration.
The two agents weren't doing the right thing, they were rightfully convicted for breaking our nation's own laws. The whole point of shutting down illegal immigration and smuggling is that both are against the laws of our nation. Don't like the law? Have it changed, but don't reward illegal behavior with commutations or pardons.
We need strong/closed borders. We also need honorable standards of excellence for those serving our country, be they police, military, or otherwise. By and large, I think they do so with great success, but the standards are meant to be upheld, not ignored.
dphantom
Diamond Member
- Jan 14, 2005
- 4,763
- 327
- 126
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: networkman
Agreed! I too wish it was full pardon, but at least the President stepped in and did the right thing - same as the two agents were doing.
You know what would make a helluva lot more sense? Strengthening our border infrastructure and policies regarding illegal immigration.
The two agents weren't doing the right thing, they were rightfully convicted for breaking our nation's own laws. The whole point of shutting down illegal immigration and smuggling is that both are against the laws of our nation. Don't like the law? Have it changed, but don't reward illegal behavior with commutations or pardons.
We need strong/closed borders. We also need honorable standards of excellence for those serving our country, be they police, military, or otherwise. By and large, I think they do so with great success, but the standards are meant to be upheld, not ignored.
And that is why they received a commutation and not a pardon. The agents did do some things wrong and were punished for it. But they were over-punished if that is a word and Bush did the right thing by commuting their sentences and not giving a pardon.
Good job, Bush.
Look at data on unemployment and illegal immigration (which has risen since NAFTA started) into the US. There is basically no correlation between unemployment and the number of unauthorized arrivals in the US. Unemployment varies over time, but recent changes in immigration don't correlate with the trends.
Many of you applaud these crazy laws, mandatory minimums and such. And when someone you admire is busted, OMG the sentence is too stiff.
These border agents were up to no good when they shot the smuggler, We still are not getting the full story. I think they were probably trying to rip the guy off.
They were sworn to uphold the law, and they broke it. They should do their time like anyone else would have, actually not, they should get a harsher sentence because they were sworn to uphold the law and were being paid to uphold the law.
Righties claim they are for the rule of law, but if they don't like the law, they ignore it.
These border agents were up to no good when they shot the smuggler, We still are not getting the full story. I think they were probably trying to rip the guy off.
They were sworn to uphold the law, and they broke it. They should do their time like anyone else would have, actually not, they should get a harsher sentence because they were sworn to uphold the law and were being paid to uphold the law.
Righties claim they are for the rule of law, but if they don't like the law, they ignore it.
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