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Bush challenges war critics to offer own plan
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Bush took swore this oath of office when he became President:
Every member of the administration took a similar oath. The even defiled their damned bible to do it.
The American public has a right to presume they will comport themselves consistant with that oath, at least until they are proven to be liars.
What's PATHETIC is, the Bushwhackos were in control of the informaiion they fed to Congress and the public, and all they gave us was lies, lies and more lies to support their own thirst for blood and delusions of grandure, and their Republican majority in Congress made it a point to keep their heads so far up their collective asses that no amount of truth would find the light of day, let alone enough critical mass to stop the administration maniacs.
Lemon law
Lifer
Lets cut to the damn chase for a change---I am in the that 20% group that did not vote for GWB--and did think that GWB was but a damn con man and an international war criminal in the making.---or at least I now so claim.
But here we are six years later---should I have 20 20 hindsight---with the courage of my pre-sight--- have obtained a gun and tried to kill GWB?---or died trying?---because I saw this coming?
Because I did not take that radical step---do I now share the common guilt of the American people for voting that ass hat into the Presidency---and twice at that? But monetarily, I get to pay my fair share of the unyet tallied bill.
THAT IS NOW THE ONLY RELEVANT QUESTION REMAINING ON THIS THREAD---HOW DO YOU GET RID OF GWB USING LEGAL MEANS BEFORE HE REALLY MAKES THINGS DRAMATICALLY WORSE THAN IT IS NOW?
And 20 20 hindsight---would the world be a better place if both GWB and Cheney had fallen victims to an assassin years ago.?
But here we are six years later---should I have 20 20 hindsight---with the courage of my pre-sight--- have obtained a gun and tried to kill GWB?---or died trying?---because I saw this coming?
Because I did not take that radical step---do I now share the common guilt of the American people for voting that ass hat into the Presidency---and twice at that? But monetarily, I get to pay my fair share of the unyet tallied bill.
THAT IS NOW THE ONLY RELEVANT QUESTION REMAINING ON THIS THREAD---HOW DO YOU GET RID OF GWB USING LEGAL MEANS BEFORE HE REALLY MAKES THINGS DRAMATICALLY WORSE THAN IT IS NOW?
And 20 20 hindsight---would the world be a better place if both GWB and Cheney had fallen victims to an assassin years ago.?
DealMonkey
Lifer
Bush himself has a plan?!? Well, color me astonished. I thought we were looking at more of the same -- two more years of "Stay-the-Course Episode II: The Empire Surges Back."
Last I checked, the war in Iraq wasn't just a problem for Republicans, it's a problem for all Americans, whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter if "you" didn't create the mess, and it doesn't mean that just pulling all the troops out is a plan. It's not, it's surrender and will, without question, create a significantly bigger mess.
Lemon law
Lifer
To ntdz,
Who correctly points out---Last I checked, the war in Iraq wasn't just a problem for Republicans, it's a problem for all Americans, whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter if "you" didn't create the mess, and it doesn't mean that just pulling all the troops out is a plan. It's not, it's surrender and will, without question, create a significantly bigger mess.
Well you have it half right---at least you understand its now an American problem---or better stated a world problem of grave risk-------at this point an American pull out COULD well cause a series of events leading up to a very large mid-east war that will in turn cut of much of the worlds oil supply resulting in a world wide depression as most of the world's economies, including ours grind to a halt.
But lets just accept your more compact "will without question create a significantly bigger mess."
Thats the easy half----now the hard half is selling A LONG HARD PLAN THAT WILL STABALIZE IRAQ
to the American people.--------------------its time to understand GWB&co. is still selling a more of the same military plan that will not solve a political problem.---and this will waste at least six months and further divide the nation.
The delusional trap we all suffer from is that we have an infinite amount of time---and as long as we do not leave your significantly bigger mess will not happen. But as events move---one day very soon
its going to reach some tipping point and a larger full blown Iraqi civil war is going to happen anyway.--------triggering that bigger mess.
Who correctly points out---Last I checked, the war in Iraq wasn't just a problem for Republicans, it's a problem for all Americans, whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter if "you" didn't create the mess, and it doesn't mean that just pulling all the troops out is a plan. It's not, it's surrender and will, without question, create a significantly bigger mess.
Well you have it half right---at least you understand its now an American problem---or better stated a world problem of grave risk-------at this point an American pull out COULD well cause a series of events leading up to a very large mid-east war that will in turn cut of much of the worlds oil supply resulting in a world wide depression as most of the world's economies, including ours grind to a halt.
But lets just accept your more compact "will without question create a significantly bigger mess."
Thats the easy half----now the hard half is selling A LONG HARD PLAN THAT WILL STABALIZE IRAQ
to the American people.--------------------its time to understand GWB&co. is still selling a more of the same military plan that will not solve a political problem.---and this will waste at least six months and further divide the nation.
The delusional trap we all suffer from is that we have an infinite amount of time---and as long as we do not leave your significantly bigger mess will not happen. But as events move---one day very soon
its going to reach some tipping point and a larger full blown Iraqi civil war is going to happen anyway.--------triggering that bigger mess.
LegendKiller
Lifer
If I am french, you have got to be one of those nutjobs who thought that bombing North Vietnam to the table was somehow going to win the war.
If it weren't for just pulling out of Vietnam we'd still be in there sending our boys into the meat grinder. And for what?
This war is a lost cause, enacted by a criminal through lies and deceit for the purpose of entitlement of the rich. It is doing nothing but killing soldiers, mortgaging our future, and destroying a country.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
I have to agree with RichardE on this point. The reason most americans supported the invasion was to get revenge. The wmd stuff was all a lie but it was also just a convenient rationalization to justify the war for most americans.
I was against the war from the start though.
Pens1566
Lifer
This is absolutely correct. Any "plan" that doesn't meet what he's already got his mind set on will be labeled as one of the following:
1) un-patriotic
2) cut and run
3) "group x that came up with plan" hates the troops and the sacrifices they've made
I submit that W is the one that actually has no regard whatsoever for our troops.
1) He can't identify with them in any way, shape, or form since he (or daddy) did everything posssible to keep the boy king as far away as possible from vietnam.
Joke: What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam? A: Bush knew how to get out of vietnam!
2) He constantly ignores the advice of people that actually have military experience (Shinseki, etc) on Iraq. No one thinks this "surge" will solve the problem in Iraq. It's purely a political CYA move to keep the meatgrinder going until January 2009. Using troops as a sacrifice to save your own ass is probably the worst thing this douche bag has ever done, and that list isn't exactly short either.
At this point, the best thing for everyone is to get the drunk driver out from behind the wheel.
/rant
Edit:
Next time I do something stupid against all advice from knowledgable sources, I expect someone else to bail my ass out too. If its good enough for the role model president, I should do it too.
QFT
Exactly, there isn't always a solution. If there is one it definately isn't a military one (short of just killing everyone in the country and repopulating it). The problem is you got different religious groups that have deep problems with each other (I am gonna try to get around to reading up on what their differences are). This is not gonna change until their thought processes evolve and who knows how long that is gonna take.
BMW540I6speed
Golden Member
The striking thing about this administration right now is not that it is weak or unpopular but that it has ceased to be relevant. I do not doubt that there are a handful of deluded zealots still casting about but I do not think the institutions that do the heavy lifting are going to go for any more adventures. I have some concern that problems with Iran might escalate without planning but I think it far more likely that most powers in the administration are looking at how they will survive and have influence after 2008.
All that seems left is the spinning of who is responsible. The "surge" is not a new strategy, it is a minor tactical move designed to forestall the day of reckoning (in hope of a miracle) and lay the groundwork for the argument (McCain's approach in the election) that we would have won if only we had REALLY made an effort. Its not about Democratic opposition so much as it is GOPers distancing themselves from the trainwreck. The political philosophy of CYA is a powerful brake on wreckless behavior.
All that seems left is the spinning of who is responsible. The "surge" is not a new strategy, it is a minor tactical move designed to forestall the day of reckoning (in hope of a miracle) and lay the groundwork for the argument (McCain's approach in the election) that we would have won if only we had REALLY made an effort. Its not about Democratic opposition so much as it is GOPers distancing themselves from the trainwreck. The political philosophy of CYA is a powerful brake on wreckless behavior.
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
hey dumbya, you broke it, you fix it. Plenty of very qualified people have tried to guide you along, even daddy, but your head is so far up your ass you can't hear them clearly. And when you took the time from cutting brush to actually get past your ADD and listen (not comprehend, it wasn't Where's Waldo) to the reports, it didn't jive with your stay the course mentality so it was unpatriotic, not the plan for a winning strategy, not a strategy you could win with (since he decides to switch words around in a sentence and pretend it's a whole new idea, why not..), and by winning we mean not losing, he'll gladly put your sons and daughters in harms way, but his own tequila twins? no freaking way, they're far to busy raising their blood alcohol level.
I've had it with this idiot boy-who-would-be-king.
I've had it with this idiot boy-who-would-be-king.
crownjules
Diamond Member
You're analogy is incredibly false. The war in Iraq was more analogous to you having sex with your girlfriend under the impression that she was on birth control. Then you learn she's pregnant and you find out that she wasn't on birth control at all.
Sounds like a great idea when you're presented with false information.
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