Bush challenges war critics to offer own plan

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: RichardE
Come up with a plan that does not involve just turning around and running. No one seems to be able too. As I said earlier, the stance you people are taking is akin to a sailor watching his captain try and save a ship after he screwed it up. Sure you might want to stand there as the ship sinks to prove to the captain he screwed up, it would be in your interested to aid in keeping the ship afloat, no matter where the fault lies, as your well being is still at risk.

Does the captain have a crew of Iraqis on board in your analogy?

--------------------------------------

Well her209---somewhat a good question and now the dilemma we now all face--be it resolved that an incompetent GWB has steered the ship of state very close to the rocks of expensive doom---and I as able bodied seaman Lemon law can see we are heading for the rocks also and getting closer every second.

And as watch from my duty station, I am in amazement when Capt Bush announces his latest plan which seems to be to steering the ship of State right into the nearest Rock.

At what point do me and my fellow sailors rip Capt Bush's hands off the tiller so we can save the ship of state before its too late? Yes mutiny is justified sometimes under maritime law---especially if the Captain is mentally impaired.

 

[trenchfoot]

Come up with a plan that does not involve just turning around and running. No one seems to be able too. As I said earlier, the stance you people are taking is akin to a sailor watching his captain try and save a ship after he screwed it up. Sure you might want to stand there as the ship sinks to prove to the captain he screwed up, it would be in your interested to aid in keeping the ship afloat, no matter where the fault lies, as your well being is still at risk.

it seems to me that your suggestion to come up with a plan other than "turning around and running" sets conditions on what you expect from others as viable alternatives, whereby any answer provided to you other than what you want to hear will be categorized by you as "turning and running." therefore, you are only asking others for a plan that you and bush will agree with rather than a plan that usually ends up being a compromise of sorts among all involved.

your comment that "no one seems able to" suggests that there is not an answer that is different from your view that is acceptable to you or bush, which, by circumstance, is what's partly afflicting bush's reasoning abilities toward finding a "mutually agreeable plan" to get him out of the mess he put himself in.

therefore, it doesn't seem unreasonable for me to assume that as far as bush is concerned, it doesn't matter how we try to find a solution for getting the iraqi's to behave like he wants them to, it only matters that right or wrong, bush gets his way no matter what happens to us and the rest of the world for as long as he's CIC.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Stunt
I agree with Bush, he has received little to no advice from critics on how to address the issues in Iraq other than a pull out.
This is expected considering his inability to listen to advisors, the people and international community when making decisions.

I pity the situation, I don't pity GWB in the least.
He broke it, he must fix it; at any cost.

So you agree the people of the country should sit back and do nothing to prove a point that Bush was wrong? Even though this course of action will damage the country far more than if an active plan was made to deal with Iraq. One that does not involve running away to leaving a genocide in your wake?

I thought America was a Republic and not a direct rule democracy and all those California ballet initiatives were Socialist nonsense? Now the American people must bail the Commander in Chief out of a terrible situation entirely of his own doing?

Bush won re-election, the people have spoken, he has political capital, he is Commander in Chief, now hop to it Georgie Boy and do your job.

I thought America was a collection of States banded together to achieve something greater? The people have no problems watching there country go down in flames to prove a point? That is pathetic and spineless.

What difference does it make WHAT we do? Bush isn't listening to anyone, least of all "the people". He's driving this country off a cliff, and pointing out that fact doesn't make one an accessory to it.

Come up with a plan that does not involve just turning around and running. No one seems to be able too. As I said earlier, the stance you people are taking is akin to a sailor watching his captain try and save a ship after he screwed it up. Sure you might want to stand there as the ship sinks to prove to the captain he screwed up, it would be in your interested to aid in keeping the ship afloat, no matter where the fault lies, as your well being is still at risk.

I don't recall you being in a place to put demands on suggestions. There is NO OTHER CHOICE but to leave and hope to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES IN THE FUTURE. This seems to be lacking in the U.S.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Withdrawl is not an option.
The instability will produce nothing better than before with Saddam in power, a victory for those fighting western values, if there is a genocide or invasion from Iran; the rest of the world will have to go back in (producing even more deaths and costs).

Spend whatever it takes; your country broke it...now fix it. Running is so cowardly and dishonest.
It's one thing to look back at an unjust war and enormous costs and it's another to not own up to your mistakes.

That is the outcome when you start a war without any idea what the heck you are doing. Now we all must live with the consequences. What do you people not get about cause and effect here? If you do something dumb, you get your ass kicked. There isn't always a "solution".

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: randym431
From MSNBC


This really burns me when I hear this from the right wingers, and now Bush himself.
Hey jerk! WE THE PEOPLE did not get us into this Iraq mess. Would never had, would never have been that stupid in the first place. So WE THE PEOPLE don't have to have a plan.

Bush... oh man. No term or insult can begin to fit this disaster in progress.

If you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea that doesn't involve us admitting defeat and leaving. It really "burns me" when Democrats oppose everything for the sake of opposing it and don't offer up a better idea.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Stunt
Withdrawl is not an option.
The instability will produce nothing better than before with Saddam in power, a victory for those fighting western values, if there is a genocide or invasion from Iran; the rest of the world will have to go back in (producing even more deaths and costs).

Spend whatever it takes; your country broke it...now fix it. Running is so cowardly and dishonest.
It's one thing to look back at an unjust war and enormous costs and it's another to not own up to your mistakes.

That is the outcome when you start a war without any idea what the heck you are doing. Now we all must live with the consequences. What do you people not get about cause and effect here? If you do something dumb, you get your ass kicked. There isn't always a "solution".

Agreed it was a bad idea.
Fast forward to today...time to fix it, even if it means keeping troops in Iraq like you did with Korea and Germany. You break it, You buy it. 🙂

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Stunt
I agree with Bush, he has received little to no advice from critics on how to address the issues in Iraq other than a pull out.
This is expected considering his inability to listen to advisors, the people and international community when making decisions.

I pity the situation, I don't pity GWB in the least.
He broke it, he must fix it; at any cost.

So you agree the people of the country should sit back and do nothing to prove a point that Bush was wrong? Even though this course of action will damage the country far more than if an active plan was made to deal with Iraq. One that does not involve running away to leaving a genocide in your wake?

I thought America was a Republic and not a direct rule democracy and all those California ballet initiatives were Socialist nonsense? Now the American people must bail the Commander in Chief out of a terrible situation entirely of his own doing?

Bush won re-election, the people have spoken, he has political capital, he is Commander in Chief, now hop to it Georgie Boy and do your job.

I thought America was a collection of States banded together to achieve something greater? The people have no problems watching there country go down in flames to prove a point? That is pathetic and spineless.

What difference does it make WHAT we do? Bush isn't listening to anyone, least of all "the people". He's driving this country off a cliff, and pointing out that fact doesn't make one an accessory to it.

Come up with a plan that does not involve just turning around and running. No one seems to be able too. As I said earlier, the stance you people are taking is akin to a sailor watching his captain try and save a ship after he screwed it up. Sure you might want to stand there as the ship sinks to prove to the captain he screwed up, it would be in your interested to aid in keeping the ship afloat, no matter where the fault lies, as your well being is still at risk.

I don't recall you being in a place to put demands on suggestions. There is NO OTHER CHOICE but to leave and hope to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES IN THE FUTURE. This seems to be lacking in the U.S.

Like all the other wars over the decades? You are learning from your mistakes, now learn to fix them. The country is over there, not just Bush, maybe you need to wake up and realize that.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Come up with a plan that does not involve just turning around and running. No one seems to be able too. As I said earlier, the stance you people are taking is akin to a sailor watching his captain try and save a ship after he screwed it up. Sure you might want to stand there as the ship sinks to prove to the captain he screwed up, it would be in your interested to aid in keeping the ship afloat, no matter where the fault lies, as your well being is still at risk.

it seems to me that your suggestion to come up with a plan other than "turning around and running" sets conditions on what you expect from others as viable alternatives, whereby any answer provided to you other than what you want to hear will be categorized by you as "turning and running." therefore, you are only asking others for a plan that you and bush will agree with rather than a plan that usually ends up being a compromise of sorts among all involved.

your comment that "no one seems able to" suggests that there is not an answer that is different from your view that is acceptable to you or bush, which, by circumstance, is what's partly afflicting bush's reasoning abilities toward finding a "mutually agreeable plan" to get him out of the mess he put himself in.

therefore, it doesn't seem unreasonable for me to assume that as far as bush is concerned, it doesn't matter how we try to find a solution for getting the iraqi's to behave like he wants them to, it only matters that right or wrong, bush gets his way no matter what happens to us and the rest of the world for as long as he's CIC.

There are a number of ways to solve this that Bush does not agree with. Bring in Iran to help, put a massive amount of troops in, divide the country and put forces along to protect the new borders. Many many things can happen that do not involve just running away from the problem. Your inability and reluctance to entertain anything other than running shows a pretty sad attitude of not wishing to get your hands dirty. This is not just a liberation anymore, the country is at war. This is not a "our diea vs bush's idea" polarity you seem to want to make it out to be, both sides need to come up with a idea that does not involving leaving a genocide behind.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: randym431
From MSNBC


This really burns me when I hear this from the right wingers, and now Bush himself.
Hey jerk! WE THE PEOPLE did not get us into this Iraq mess. Would never had, would never have been that stupid in the first place. So WE THE PEOPLE don't have to have a plan.

Bush... oh man. No term or insult can begin to fit this disaster in progress.

If you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea that doesn't involve us admitting defeat and leaving. It really "burns me" when Democrats oppose everything for the sake of opposing it and don't offer up a better idea.

"f you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea "

Says you. If we didn't create the mess and say to leave now and cut our losses. Who are you to say we can't?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: randym431
From MSNBC


This really burns me when I hear this from the right wingers, and now Bush himself.
Hey jerk! WE THE PEOPLE did not get us into this Iraq mess. Would never had, would never have been that stupid in the first place. So WE THE PEOPLE don't have to have a plan.

Bush... oh man. No term or insult can begin to fit this disaster in progress.

If you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea that doesn't involve us admitting defeat and leaving. It really "burns me" when Democrats oppose everything for the sake of opposing it and don't offer up a better idea.

"f you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea "

Says you. If we didn't create the mess and say to leave now and cut our losses. Who are you to say we can't?

http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/i/iraq_approval_8_2005.png

Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: RichardE
http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/i/iraq_approval_8_2005.png

Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

It's like having sex with your girlfriend, finding out she's pregnant and not having the guts to follow through with the abortion (for you liberals) or get married (for you conservatives).

Sounds like a great idea at first, but the rest of it ain't so rosey 😛

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

NO! The Bushwhacko neocons started the war in Iraq, and 100% of the U.S. was fed lies by the criminal traitors who led us into it.

Just because we were duped into their mistakes doesn't mean we should allow those who started it to continue squandering American lives with their folly, now that the truth about is finally well understood by the majority. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: RichardE
Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

NO! The Bushwhacko neocons started the war in Iraq, and 100% of the U.S. was fed lies by the liars who led us into it. Just because we were duped into their mistakes doesn't mean we should allow the criminal traitors who started it to continue squandering American lives with their folly, now that the truth about is finally well understood by the majority.

No Harvey, I'm sorry. The US was bloodthirsty because 9/11 was still in its mind. That has faded now and the thirst for blood is no longer there, but at the time it was. Look how easily people agreed to bombing/invading Afghanistan right away even though they terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and terrorists training camps can be found all over the middle east. Any excuse would have done to invade Iraq, the American people wanted blood. If a terrorist attack happened on the US tomorrow, I am positive that people would not mind the Iraq war any longer, since they would want revenge.

In the end, the people wanted the war and got one. It doesn't matter looking back whether it was right or wrong, the fact is you are there, and you are there with an initial strong support. Now something has to be done, or you will leave a genocide and instability and a even more weak image of the US than was left after cutting and running from Vietnam.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I agree with Bush, he has received little to no advice from critics on how to address the issues in Iraq other than a pull out.
This is expected considering his inability to listen to advisors, the people and international community when making decisions.

I pity the situation, I don't pity GWB in the least.
He broke it, he must fix it; at any cost.

He stifled all dissent and disagreement, remember the reason "Why does XXXX hate America," jokes are all the rage right now. They silenced anyone with a difference of opinion and now he laments that he has no free thinking advisers, give us all a break, sheesh! (Last sentence is aimed at Bush, not you Stunt.)

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Stunt
I agree with Bush, he has received little to no advice from critics on how to address the issues in Iraq other than a pull out.
This is expected considering his inability to listen to advisors, the people and international community when making decisions.

I pity the situation, I don't pity GWB in the least.
He broke it, he must fix it; at any cost.

So you agree the people of the country should sit back and do nothing to prove a point that Bush was wrong? Even though this course of action will damage the country far more than if an active plan was made to deal with Iraq. One that does not involve running away to leaving a genocide in your wake?

I thought America was a Republic and not a direct rule democracy and all those California ballet initiatives were Socialist nonsense? Now the American people must bail the Commander in Chief out of a terrible situation entirely of his own doing?

Bush won re-election, the people have spoken, he has political capital, he is Commander in Chief, now hop to it Georgie Boy and do your job.

I thought America was a collection of States banded together to achieve something greater? The people have no problems watching there country go down in flames to prove a point? That is pathetic and spineless.

What difference does it make WHAT we do? Bush isn't listening to anyone, least of all "the people". He's driving this country off a cliff, and pointing out that fact doesn't make one an accessory to it.

Come up with a plan that does not involve just turning around and running. No one seems to be able too. As I said earlier, the stance you people are taking is akin to a sailor watching his captain try and save a ship after he screwed it up. Sure you might want to stand there as the ship sinks to prove to the captain he screwed up, it would be in your interested to aid in keeping the ship afloat, no matter where the fault lies, as your well being is still at risk.

I don't recall you being in a place to put demands on suggestions. There is NO OTHER CHOICE but to leave and hope to LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES IN THE FUTURE. This seems to be lacking in the U.S.

Like all the other wars over the decades? You are learning from your mistakes, now learn to fix them. The country is over there, not just Bush, maybe you need to wake up and realize that.

Umm, I learned from the mistakes of the past. That is why I have been against Iraq since well before we invaded. Stop wasting our time here.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: RichardE
No Harvey, I'm sorry. The US was bloodthirsty because 9/11 was still in its mind.

Speak for yourself. I was never that stupid, and neither were most of my friends and others I respect.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: randym431
From MSNBC


This really burns me when I hear this from the right wingers, and now Bush himself.
Hey jerk! WE THE PEOPLE did not get us into this Iraq mess. Would never had, would never have been that stupid in the first place. So WE THE PEOPLE don't have to have a plan.

Bush... oh man. No term or insult can begin to fit this disaster in progress.

If you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea that doesn't involve us admitting defeat and leaving. It really "burns me" when Democrats oppose everything for the sake of opposing it and don't offer up a better idea.

"f you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea "

Says you. If we didn't create the mess and say to leave now and cut our losses. Who are you to say we can't?

http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/i/iraq_approval_8_2005.png

Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

Umm, lol. Ok, live in delusion. 1. The people did not have the intel that Bush had. They were hoping he knew what he was doing. I never voted for Bush, never wanted the war, still don't want the war, would never join the war, would never give money for the war, etc.

There is nothing to finish. The whole idea that you could invade another country that is in chaos and create a "democracy" is lunacy and impossible.

We "finish" by leaving and telling the world that we made a huge mistake and will pay reparations to Iraq and BEG the world for help.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: RichardE
No Harvey, I'm sorry. The US was bloodthirsty because 9/11 was still in its mind.

Speak for yourself. I was never that stupid, and neither were most of my friends and others I respect.

Those of us who can think for ourselves often forget that the masses act under a sort of mass hysteria, and vote and lobby and petition accordingly.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: RichardE
Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

NO! The Bushwhacko neocons started the war in Iraq, and 100% of the U.S. was fed lies by the liars who led us into it. Just because we were duped into their mistakes doesn't mean we should allow the criminal traitors who started it to continue squandering American lives with their folly, now that the truth about is finally well understood by the majority.

No Harvey, I'm sorry. The US was bloodthirsty because 9/11 was still in its mind. That has faded now and the thirst for blood is no longer there, but at the time it was. Look how easily people agreed to bombing/invading Afghanistan right away even though they terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and terrorists training camps can be found all over the middle east. Any excuse would have done to invade Iraq, the American people wanted blood. If a terrorist attack happened on the US tomorrow, I am positive that people would not mind the Iraq war any longer, since they would want revenge.

In the end, the people wanted the war and got one. It doesn't matter looking back whether it was right or wrong, the fact is you are there, and you are there with an initial strong support. Now something has to be done, or you will leave a genocide and instability and a even more weak image of the US than was left after cutting and running from Vietnam.

People wanted action. It is the government's job to make sure this action makes sense. It is funny that you think "the people" are in charge of this country instead of the current administration! PATHETIC

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: randym431
From MSNBC


This really burns me when I hear this from the right wingers, and now Bush himself.
Hey jerk! WE THE PEOPLE did not get us into this Iraq mess. Would never had, would never have been that stupid in the first place. So WE THE PEOPLE don't have to have a plan.

Bush... oh man. No term or insult can begin to fit this disaster in progress.

If you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea that doesn't involve us admitting defeat and leaving. It really "burns me" when Democrats oppose everything for the sake of opposing it and don't offer up a better idea.

"f you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea "

Says you. If we didn't create the mess and say to leave now and cut our losses. Who are you to say we can't?

http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/i/iraq_approval_8_2005.png

Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

Umm, lol. Ok, live in delusion. 1. The people did not have the intel that Bush had. They were hoping he knew what he was doing. I never voted for Bush, never wanted the war, still don't want the war, would never join the war, would never give money for the war, etc.

There is nothing to finish. The whole idea that you could invade another country that is in chaos and create a "democracy" is lunacy and impossible.

We "finish" by leaving and telling the world that we made a huge mistake and will pay reparations to Iraq and BEG the world for help.

Will you mail out the thousands of letters to loved ones who have relatives who will die in the genocide that would follow a US withdrawal? Perhaps a big "Sorry, we shouldn't have come, good luck now" can be given in the form a televised speech, I am sure that would go over well.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: randym431
From MSNBC


This really burns me when I hear this from the right wingers, and now Bush himself.
Hey jerk! WE THE PEOPLE did not get us into this Iraq mess. Would never had, would never have been that stupid in the first place. So WE THE PEOPLE don't have to have a plan.

Bush... oh man. No term or insult can begin to fit this disaster in progress.

If you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea that doesn't involve us admitting defeat and leaving. It really "burns me" when Democrats oppose everything for the sake of opposing it and don't offer up a better idea.

"f you're going to sit here and criticize the plan, you damn well better have another idea "

Says you. If we didn't create the mess and say to leave now and cut our losses. Who are you to say we can't?

http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/i/iraq_approval_8_2005.png

Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

Umm, lol. Ok, live in delusion. 1. The people did not have the intel that Bush had. They were hoping he knew what he was doing. I never voted for Bush, never wanted the war, still don't want the war, would never join the war, would never give money for the war, etc.

There is nothing to finish. The whole idea that you could invade another country that is in chaos and create a "democracy" is lunacy and impossible.

We "finish" by leaving and telling the world that we made a huge mistake and will pay reparations to Iraq and BEG the world for help.

Will you mail out the thousands of letters to loved ones who have relatives who will die in the genocide that would follow a US withdrawal? Perhaps a big "Sorry, we shouldn't have come, good luck now" can be given in the form a televised speech, I am sure that would go over well.

I am not responsible for the huge failure that is Iraq. I will feel just as bad as I do for the people in Darfur that we are doing nothing about.

 

[shadow9d9]

"Perhaps a big "Sorry, we shouldn't have come, good luck now".

Yes, kinda. The U.S. needs to BEG the rest of the world for help because we have lost all control. So yes, that would be a great start.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
"Perhaps a big "Sorry, we shouldn't have come, good luck now".

Yes, kinda. The U.S. needs to BEG the rest of the world for help because we have lost all control. So yes, that would be a great start.

I love how you ignore the genocide that would follow. Would we just turn our eyes away from that in your grand scheme of running away?

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: RichardE
http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/i/iraq_approval_8_2005.png

Almost 80% of the US approved going to Iraq before the war started...

You did create this mess, just because you don't have the stomach to finish it now does not mean you shouldn't.

It's like having sex with your girlfriend, finding out she's pregnant and not having the guts to follow through with the abortion (for you liberals) or get married (for you conservatives).

Sounds like a great idea at first, but the rest of it ain't so rosey 😛

uh.....why is an abortion the default choice here? its an option..im a little confused by your comparison..

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
"Perhaps a big "Sorry, we shouldn't have come, good luck now".

Yes, kinda. The U.S. needs to BEG the rest of the world for help because we have lost all control. So yes, that would be a great start.

I love how you ignore the genocide that would follow. Would we just turn our eyes away from that in your grand scheme of running away?

As I said and YOU ignored... there is genocide in Darfur too.. it has been going on for a decade.. We would turn our eyes away the same way we do with Darfur. What do you not get?