Bush blasts "Revisionist Historians" on Iraq . . . .

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Bush. What a lying weasel. I thought I smelled a foul odor. Elizabeth is only ten or twelve miles form here.

The revisionist as revisionist critic.

He can't deny what he said and he said it on many occassions. Unqualified. Period.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Or someone who simply got a better offer.

Two points then you guys can go back to jacking each other off:
1. This guy retired. He didn't resign in protest or any other 'martyr like" action. He leaves with his full pension, which he earned.
2. Reading the articles you'll also notice he said he didn't oppose the war in Iraq, he just wished it had been fought with a broader coalition. One could interpret this as his thinking there was sufficient reason to go to war. If you're going to lift him up and point to him as the voice of reason and knowledge, then you must determine why he wasn't opposed to the war. Hopefully he'll be sworn in soon and testify before Congress.

Back to the circle jerk.

 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
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Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Or someone who simply got a better offer.

Two points then you guys can go back to jacking each other off:
1. This guy retired. He didn't resign in protest or any other 'martyr like" action. He leaves with his full pension, which he earned.
2. Reading the articles you'll also notice he said he didn't oppose the war in Iraq, he just wished it had been fought with a broader coalition. One could interpret this as his thinking there was sufficient reason to go to war. If you're going to lift him up and point to him as the voice of reason and knowledge, then you must determine why he wasn't opposed to the war. Hopefully he'll be sworn in soon and testify before Congress.

Back to the circle jerk.

Uh, two more posts and you're the pivot man!

 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Or someone who simply got a better offer.

Two points then you guys can go back to jacking each other off:
1. This guy retired. He didn't resign in protest or any other 'martyr like" action. He leaves with his full pension, which he earned.
2. Reading the articles you'll also notice he said he didn't oppose the war in Iraq, he just wished it had been fought with a broader coalition. One could interpret this as his thinking there was sufficient reason to go to war. If you're going to lift him up and point to him as the voice of reason and knowledge, then you must determine why he wasn't opposed to the war. Hopefully he'll be sworn in soon and testify before Congress.

Back to the circle jerk.

lol. seriously guys, do you want me to try to get an extra autograph on Thursday from Bush for you? hehe. To douche: Love , Bush.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Or someone who simply got a better offer.

Two points then you guys can go back to jacking each other off:
1. This guy retired. He didn't resign in protest or any other 'martyr like" action. He leaves with his full pension, which he earned.
2. Reading the articles you'll also notice he said he didn't oppose the war in Iraq, he just wished it had been fought with a broader coalition. One could interpret this as his thinking there was sufficient reason to go to war. If you're going to lift him up and point to him as the voice of reason and knowledge, then you must determine why he wasn't opposed to the war. Hopefully he'll be sworn in soon and testify before Congress.

Back to the circle jerk.

I don't think he REALLY was for the war, just read this part:

Within U.S. borders, homeland security is suffering from "policy constipation. Nothing gets done," Beers said. "Fixing an agency management problem doesn't make headlines or produce voter support. So if you're looking at things from a political perspective, it's easier to go to war."
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Or someone who simply got a better offer.

Two points then you guys can go back to jacking each other off:
1. This guy retired. He didn't resign in protest or any other 'martyr like" action. He leaves with his full pension, which he earned.
2. Reading the articles you'll also notice he said he didn't oppose the war in Iraq, he just wished it had been fought with a broader coalition. One could interpret this as his thinking there was sufficient reason to go to war. If you're going to lift him up and point to him as the voice of reason and knowledge, then you must determine why he wasn't opposed to the war. Hopefully he'll be sworn in soon and testify before Congress.

Back to the circle jerk.

I don't think he REALLY was for the war, just read this part:

Within U.S. borders, homeland security is suffering from "policy constipation. Nothing gets done," Beers said. "Fixing an agency management problem doesn't make headlines or produce voter support. So if you're looking at things from a political perspective, it's easier to go to war."


Still not convinced. Doesn't mean he was against it, just that he sees it as an easy choice.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
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Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Link to title article
Deny - deny - deny.

The end of that article is a lead-in to Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror
Defector who felt deceived, or deceiver with a conscious.

Or someone who simply got a better offer.

Two points then you guys can go back to jacking each other off:
1. This guy retired. He didn't resign in protest or any other 'martyr like" action. He leaves with his full pension, which he earned.
2. Reading the articles you'll also notice he said he didn't oppose the war in Iraq, he just wished it had been fought with a broader coalition. One could interpret this as his thinking there was sufficient reason to go to war. If you're going to lift him up and point to him as the voice of reason and knowledge, then you must determine why he wasn't opposed to the war. Hopefully he'll be sworn in soon and testify before Congress.

Back to the circle jerk.

I don't think he REALLY was for the war, just read this part:

Within U.S. borders, homeland security is suffering from "policy constipation. Nothing gets done," Beers said. "Fixing an agency management problem doesn't make headlines or produce voter support. So if you're looking at things from a political perspective, it's easier to go to war."

Sounds like a harsh critique of the Bush method of handling (or should I say not handling) problems.

 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
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Originally posted by: BOBDN

Sounds like a harsh critique of the Bush method of handling (or should I say not handling) problems.

Harsh indeed. Boy is my face red. What a burn.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
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Late 2002, Early 2003 Bush/Rumsfield/Powell say that Iraq has WMD and he knows the specific locations of labs/factories.

Now, the WMD weren't the issue.

Who's revisionist now?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
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Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Sounds like a harsh critique of the Bush method of handling (or should I say not handling) problems.

Harsh indeed. Boy is my face red. What a burn.

What the hell makes you think this was in reference to anything you had to say?

 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: konichiwa
Late 2002, Early 2003 Bush/Rumsfield/Powell say that Iraq has WMD and he knows the specific locations of labs/factories.

Now, the WMD weren't the issue.

Who's revisionist now?

They and the CIA documented like 2000+ locations of WMD's... you would THINK that if the iraqi regime hid them, they would've messed up a few times and left some evidence to vindicate our RIGHTEOUS leader.
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
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Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Sounds like a harsh critique of the Bush method of handling (or should I say not handling) problems.

Harsh indeed. Boy is my face red. What a burn.

What the hell makes you think this was in reference to anything you had to say?

I wasn't taking it literally as a reference to me. Solidarity.... C'mon that's the Dem's only good quality these days so you must be familiar. I'm with bush. Critique of him against his supporters, that sort of thing. :) That's all.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,861
6,396
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Come to think of it, I've never seen Bush and the Iraqi Information Minister in the same location. :eek: Perhaps this is all a ruse to overthrow Saddam and then Bush/Info Minister take his place.

It's more likely though that Bush was impressed with the Info Ministers leet communication skills and is now attempting to learn from the Master. :D

I expect those kinds of comments to come from some AT Lamma, not the "Leader" of the Free World. Bush is teh Llamma!
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
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What's his claim? I don't get it...who exactly are 'revisionists' and why? Because they asked questions? Is that a bad thing to do?
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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Bush may be remembered as "master of irony". He attacked Gore with "fuzzy math" and then showed himself to be master of it with his budget and tax cuts. He derides "revisionist historians" as he works to master the art himself to justify a war that is losing its luster.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
I want a show of hands,

Everyone that has blasted the waste and money spent on the Homeland Security Department and also completely agrees with the article "Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror" please raise your hand.

I could take the time to go back through the threads but I'd like to see who here has the courage to admit it.

Thanks for your time, I'm looking forwards to your response.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
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Originally posted by: etech
I want a show of hands,

Everyone that has blasted the waste and money spent on the Homeland Security Department and also completely agrees with the article "Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror" please raise your hand.

I could take the time to go back through the threads but I'd like to see who here has the courage to admit it.

Thanks for your time, I'm looking forwards to your response.

Creating & dumping money into the Homeland Securtity Department doesn't meant it's fulfilling its purpose effectively. Assuming its purpose is to actually make the homeland more secure, as opposed to just giving the appearance so.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
2
0
Originally posted by: etech
I want a show of hands,

Everyone that has blasted the waste and money spent on the Homeland Security Department and also completely agrees with the article "Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror" please raise your hand.

I could take the time to go back through the threads but I'd like to see who here has the courage to admit it.

Thanks for your time, I'm looking forwards to your response.

Not sure exactly which article you're talking about, but can I ask for my own show of hands? How many blasted the squandering of money on education, proclaiming that simply throwing money at the problem wouldn't help, but derided those who say the same thing about the Homeland Security Dept.?
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Come to think of it, I've never seen Bush and the Iraqi Information Minister in the same location. :eek: Perhaps this is all a ruse to overthrow Saddam and then Bush/Info Minister take his place.

It's more likely though that Bush was impressed with the Info Ministers leet communication skills and is now attempting to learn from the Master. :D

I expect those kinds of comments to come from some AT Lamma, not the "Leader" of the Free World. Bush is teh Llamma!

San you are getting too close to the truth, we may have to send a squad to silence you.

but before you die, you can know the whole truth though, Saddam was the info minister, and Bush as well........
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: konichiwa
Originally posted by: etech
I want a show of hands,

Everyone that has blasted the waste and money spent on the Homeland Security Department and also completely agrees with the article "Former Aide takes aim at War on Terror" please raise your hand.

I could take the time to go back through the threads but I'd like to see who here has the courage to admit it.

Thanks for your time, I'm looking forwards to your response.

Not sure exactly which article you're talking about, but can I ask for my own show of hands? How many blasted the squandering of money on education, proclaiming that simply throwing money at the problem wouldn't help, but derided those who say the same thing about the Homeland Security Dept.?

I don't know, who said that the Homeland Security Dept. is overfunded but also said they agree with the author of that article?
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
I don't believe that I've ever weighed in on the Dept. of Homeland Security in these forums before. I have no idea what the funding level should be yet. I don't have enough information to make an informed decision. I do know that there are several things wrong with it. First of all, I believe that it's primary purpose is as a tool for furthering the radical agenda of Bush and co. to deprive us of our rights. Bush keeps the fear of terrorism alive but tells us he has taken these measures to make us safer. Actually not a bad idea overall if it worked as advertised. We saw immediately that Bush wanted to create a large group of Federal employees that would not be represented by Civil Service or unions. So from the beginning I felt that much more than just national security was considered when they formulated this idea. You also have to realize that creating an organization of this size with little planning and no precedent would undoubtedly have many initial inefficiencies built in. Division of labor and management hierarchies done with the best of intentions are more failure prone when done by design than those that develop over time. I have no reason to believe that givin the short period of time allotted to creating this agency, the best people were selected for the management positions. Checks and balances were not built into the program. Dick Armey should be under arrest for abusing the agency in the Texas gerrymandering fiasco. We can expect more abuses if there are not immediate and harsh penalties for such abuse. I worry that with people like Ashcroft in power, the agency could morph into a domestic version of the SS. There may also be behind the scenes pressure to produce headline grabbing results to demonstrate the good works of the agency which will result in problems from cutting corners or overagressive behavior. It has yet to be seen whether this agency will be a good thing or not.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
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From New York Times Op/Ed

Text:

Last Thursday a House subcommittee met to finalize next year's homeland security appropriation. The ranking Democrat announced that he would introduce an amendment adding roughly $1 billion for areas like port security and border security that, according to just about every expert, have been severely neglected since Sept. 11. He proposed to pay for the additions by slightly scaling back tax cuts for people making more than $1 million per year.<!-- BIGAD ad not targeted -->
The subcommittee's chairman promptly closed the meeting to the public, citing national security ? though no classified material was under discussion. And the bill that emerged from the closed meeting did not contain the extra funding.
It was a perfect symbol of the reality of the Bush administration's "war on terror." Behind the rhetoric ? and behind the veil of secrecy, invoked in the name of national security but actually used to prevent public scrutiny ? lies a pattern of neglect, of refusal to take crucial actions to protect us from terrorists. Actual counterterrorism, it seems, doesn't fit the administration's agenda.
Yesterday The <ORG idsrc="NYSE" value="WPO"><ALT-CODE idsrc="NYSE" value="Washington Post Company" />Washington Post</ORG> printed an interview with Rand Beers, a top White House counterterrorism adviser who resigned in March. "They're making us less secure, not more secure," he said of the Bush administration. "As an insider, I saw the things that weren't being done." Among the problem areas he cited were homeland security, where he says the administration has "only a rhetorical policy"; failure to press Saudi Arabia (the home of most of the Sept. 11 terrorists) to take action; and, of course, the way we allowed Afghanistan to relapse into chaos.
Some of this pattern of neglect involves penny-pinching. Back in February, even George W. Bush in effect admitted that not enough money had been allocated to domestic security ? though (to the fury of Republican legislators) he blamed Congress. Yet according to Fred Kaplan in Slate, the administration's latest budget proposal for homeland security actually contains less money than was spent last year. Meanwhile, urgent priorities remain unmet. For example, port security, identified as a top concern from the very beginning, has so far received only one-tenth as much money as the Coast Guard says is needed.
But it's not just a matter of money. For one thing, it's hard to claim now that the Bush administration is trying to hold down domestic spending to make room for tax cuts. With the budget deficit projected at more than $400 billion this year, a few billion more for homeland security wouldn't make much difference to the tax-cutting agenda. Moreover, Congress isn't pinching pennies across the board: last week the Senate voted to provide $15 billion in loan guarantees for the construction of nuclear power plants.
Furthermore, even on the military front the administration has been weirdly reluctant to come to grips with terrorism. It refused to provide Afghanistan's new government with an adequate security umbrella, with the predictable result that warlords are running rampant and the Taliban are making a comeback. The squandered victory in Afghanistan was one reason people like myself had a bad feeling about the invasion of Iraq ? and sure enough, the administration was bizarrely lackadaisical about providing postwar security. Even nuclear waste dumps were left unguarded for weeks.
So what's the explanation? The answer, one suspects, is that key figures ? above all, Donald Rumsfeld ? just didn't feel like dealing with the real problem. Real counterterrorism mainly involves police work and precautionary measures; it doesn't look impressive on TV, and it doesn't provide many occasions for victory celebrations.
A conventional war, on the other hand, is a lot more fun: you get stirring pictures of tanks rolling across the desert, and you get to do a victory landing on an aircraft carrier. And more and more it seems that that was what the war was all about. After all, the supposed reasons for fighting that war have turned out to be false ? there were no links to Al Qaeda, there wasn't a big arsenal of W.M.D.'s.
But never mind ? we won, didn't we? Maybe not. About half of the U.S. Army's combat strength is now tied down in Iraq, facing what looks increasingly like a guerrilla war ? and like a perfect recruiting device for Al Qaeda. Meanwhile, the real war on terror has been neglected, and we've antagonized the allies we need to fight that war. One of these days we'll end up paying the price. </NYT_TEXT><BR clear=all>