Bush Backs Soc. Sec. Bill Without Accounts

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: meanboom

Originally posted by: rockyct

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: ntdz
Good, I'm against the accounts IF they cost the $2 tril they are supposed to cost. I love the idea, but I don't believe it's worth the price for them.

$2trillion now, $10 trillion later.

as they say, pay me now or pay me later.

Private accounts alone do not solve the solvency issue. So, it's $2 trillion now, and you still have to have a plan fixing the $10 trillion later.

do you know how to solve time-value of money equations?
If you do you?ll see that a simple 3% increase in returns will completely fix social security.

2trillion now in private accounts turns into 14 trillion in 40years, which is about 10 trillion better than simple us treasury bonds.

meanboom? you love moonbeam that much?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.
[/quote]

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari


Meh, bad idea, but I'm sure the left will be happy that Bush is willing to compromise. Hopefully they will reciprocate in turn.

Newby-type question: What does "meh" mean? I see it used a lot, but Googling on acroynms and blogging terms doesn't turn up anything.

Text

Edit: From BBonds link:

We are absolutely committed to preserving Social Security. It is a compact across the generations
that has helped tens of millions of Americans live their retirement years in dignity instead of poverty.
Democrats believe in the progressive, guaranteed benefit that has ensured that seniors and people with
disabilities receive a benefit not subject to the whims of the market or the economy. We oppose
privatizing Social Security or raising the retirement age. We oppose reducing the benefits earned by
workers just because they have also earned a benefit from certain public retirement plans. We will
repeal discriminatory laws that penalize some retired workers and their families while allowing others to
receive full benefits. Because the massive deficits under the Bush Administration have raided hundreds
of billions of dollars from Social Security, the most important step we can take to strengthen Social
Security is to restore fiscal responsibility. Social Security matters to all Americans, Democrats and
Republicans, and strengthening Social Security should be a common cause.


I guess we know what they won't do. :disgust: The party of no ideas. Read: We are going to continue to raise the FICA tax and steal from future generations.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.
[/quote]

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

[/quote]

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.
[/quote]

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.
[/quote]

Bush preyed upon the stupid and he hit the mark with you it seems.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.

Bush preyed upon the stupid and he hit the mark with you it seems.[/quote]

You can tell who they are by the yellow bullseyes on their backs. bush hits the mark every time it would seem, no matter what he says or does.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.
[/quote]

I read what they said and zendari quoted it above. They are basically fine with letting SS run into the wall.

 

[zendari]

I guess we are a country of stupid people then, all 56 million of us. Perhaps you should move to France, so you don't have to whine about war

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Jadow
it really fux over workers under 40

Now we KNOW we will have to pay in as much if not more than our parents and grandparents and get LESS in return.

Private account would have allowed me to make a higher rate of return for for my invested portion which would make up for the lesser payment from the old SS system.

When you say "less in return" what do you mean ?

My understanding is that there are plans that reduce the amount of increases, which otherwise will be considerable.

Not quarreling with whether or not it's fair, just want to know if we both have the same understanding.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess we are a country of stupid people then, all 56 million of us. Perhaps you should move to France, so you don't have to whine about war

Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

[zendari]

No, DH. Thanks for illustrating mine. 😛

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.

Bush preyed upon the stupid and he hit the mark with you it seems.[/quote]

:thumbsup:

bullseye

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond
Several Democrats have come forward with plans. And those plans include raising or eliminating the FICA cap. But after asking for any and all ideas, Bush, true to form, tried to ignore all of them and instead increasingly stuck with his destructive, lose-lose plan (but a win-win for his Wall St. buddies).

Now, after wasting months and millions of taxpayer dollars trying to sell America his turkey of a plan, which Bush has now been FORCED to abandon in the face the reality of the situation, you people actually have the tumerity to praise him for compromising???!

Bwahahahahahaha

Even if Democrats didn't have a plan, and they do, no plan would be infinitely better than Bush's plan. Right now, if nothing at all is done, seventy percent of benefits will stil be paid out through Social Security's 75 year horizon. With Bush's plan we'd be lucky to have Social Security at all in 75 years -- but we would have a MOUNTAIN of new debt.

Does anyone besides me sense a theme here?

What is the democrats official plan?

Not to let opld people starve.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari


Meh, bad idea, but I'm sure the left will be happy that Bush is willing to compromise. Hopefully they will reciprocate in turn.

Newby-type question: What does "meh" mean? I see it used a lot, but Googling on acroynms and blogging terms doesn't turn up anything.

Text

Edit: From BBonds link:

We are absolutely committed to preserving Social Security. It is a compact across the generations
that has helped tens of millions of Americans live their retirement years in dignity instead of poverty.
Democrats believe in the progressive, guaranteed benefit that has ensured that seniors and people with
disabilities receive a benefit not subject to the whims of the market or the economy. We oppose
privatizing Social Security or raising the retirement age. We oppose reducing the benefits earned by
workers just because they have also earned a benefit from certain public retirement plans. We will
repeal discriminatory laws that penalize some retired workers and their families while allowing others to
receive full benefits. Because the massive deficits under the Bush Administration have raided hundreds
of billions of dollars from Social Security, the most important step we can take to strengthen Social
Security is to restore fiscal responsibility. Social Security matters to all Americans, Democrats and
Republicans, and strengthening Social Security should be a common cause.


I guess we know what they won't do. :disgust: The party of no ideas. Read: We are going to continue to raise the FICA tax and steal from future generations.

Get used to it. With the inflation that the current war is causing I wouldn't be surprised if your SS taxes go up.

Heres a plan, how about a 2% raise in SS taxes with 1% going into private accounts.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.

Bush preyed upon the stupid and he hit the mark with you it seems.

You can tell who they are by the yellow bullseyes on their backs. bush hits the mark every time it would seem, no matter what he says or does.

[/quote]

I can't believe how many people out there willing to sell there mothers and fathers down the tubes if it saves them a buck. Coincidently, they all seem to be Bush supporters.

 

[Jadow]

hmm, any plan I've seen won't affect our mothers and fathers.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: Jadow
hmm, any plan I've seen won't affect our mothers and fathers.

Say what? He said only peopler over 55 will not have their benefits changed. Seeing as that many people (on this board) have parents below the age of 55 (like my own ~45) then his plan would very much affect our mothers and fathers. I personally dont have a big problem with SS accounts but lets not confuse the reality of his plan. It will affect our parents. To say otherwise is wrong.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond
Several Democrats have come forward with plans. And those plans include raising or eliminating the FICA cap. But after asking for any and all ideas, Bush, true to form, tried to ignore all of them and instead increasingly stuck with his destructive, lose-lose plan (but a win-win for his Wall St. buddies).

Now, after wasting months and millions of taxpayer dollars trying to sell America his turkey of a plan, which Bush has now been FORCED to abandon in the face the reality of the situation, you people actually have the tumerity to praise him for compromising???!

Bwahahahahahaha

Even if Democrats didn't have a plan, and they do, no plan would be infinitely better than Bush's plan. Right now, if nothing at all is done, seventy percent of benefits will stil be paid out through Social Security's 75 year horizon. With Bush's plan we'd be lucky to have Social Security at all in 75 years -- but we would have a MOUNTAIN of new debt.

Does anyone besides me sense a theme here?

What is the democrats official plan?

Not to let opld people starve.

You think reducing benefits by 20% while running this country into the dirt wont?

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.

Bush preyed upon the stupid and he hit the mark with you it seems.

You can tell who they are by the yellow bullseyes on their backs. bush hits the mark every time it would seem, no matter what he says or does.

I can't believe how many people out there willing to sell there mothers and fathers down the tubes if it saves them a buck. Coincidently, they all seem to be Bush supporters.[/quote]

You may want to research the topic before posting. I know it's too much to ask, but you'll be amazed at the results.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond
Several Democrats have come forward with plans. And those plans include raising or eliminating the FICA cap. But after asking for any and all ideas, Bush, true to form, tried to ignore all of them and instead increasingly stuck with his destructive, lose-lose plan (but a win-win for his Wall St. buddies).

Now, after wasting months and millions of taxpayer dollars trying to sell America his turkey of a plan, which Bush has now been FORCED to abandon in the face the reality of the situation, you people actually have the tumerity to praise him for compromising???!

Bwahahahahahaha

Even if Democrats didn't have a plan, and they do, no plan would be infinitely better than Bush's plan. Right now, if nothing at all is done, seventy percent of benefits will stil be paid out through Social Security's 75 year horizon. With Bush's plan we'd be lucky to have Social Security at all in 75 years -- but we would have a MOUNTAIN of new debt.

Does anyone besides me sense a theme here?

What is the democrats official plan?

Not to let opld people starve.

You think reducing benefits by 20% while running this country into the dirt wont?

Then tell Bush to stop running the country into the dirt.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Genx87


Read this .pdf.

Just search "Social Security".

Do us a favor and link it. You made the claim now back it up.

Forgot to add the link. It's fixed.

Basically they are ready to do nothing while SS crashes into the wall.

Great group of forward thinkers there lol

No wonder they lost the election.

Basically, you don't bother to read.

No wonder Bush "won" the election.

Bush won because of people like you, the best argument against the left.

Bush preyed upon the stupid and he hit the mark with you it seems.

You can tell who they are by the yellow bullseyes on their backs. bush hits the mark every time it would seem, no matter what he says or does.

I can't believe how many people out there willing to sell there sons and daughters down the tubes if it gets them more bucks. Coincidently, they all seem to be democrat supporters.[/quote]

 

[Jhhnn]

Pretty amazing that Bush fans don't, won't, and absolutely refuse to recognize that fiscal responsibility now and on into the future is the only possible way that the situation can work out favorably for the vast majority of Americans.

Which is precisely what all of this smokescreen from the Right is designed to obfuscate. While the specifics of this new "plan" remain shrouded in mystery, none of the plans advanced so far even begin to address what to do in the 2018-2042 timeframe, other than borrow the govt into a position where financial commitments made to the SS trust can't possibly be honored...

Given their way, Current Repub leaders will make sure that the whole issue of benefit reductions in 2042 happens a lot sooner, simply because of the rising cost of maintaining explosive debt, debt that primarily benefits only a very few.

Raising the SS cap, raising contributions, or any variety of other measures won't do anything to change the situation if the increased revenue is merely used to offset more fatcat taxcuts and mask the effects of ongoing structural deficits.

Basically, we're supposed to guard against possible problems 35 years down the road while they engage in a borrowing/looting spree today, thus rendering our efforts moot...

Repubs have definitely become the party of ideas, the same kind of ideas used by conmen and charlatans to fleece others for thousands of years...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Basically, we're supposed to guard against possible problems 35 years down the road while they engage in a borrowing/looting spree today, thus rendering our efforts moot...

:thumbsup:

I've often wondered when I hear that we'll go bankrupt with SS, etc's borrowing, yet we are borrowing BILLIONS EACH DAY just to get by now. Of course, adding to that will make it worse, but it would seem that the billions borrowed NOW are as bad if not worse than borrowing billions in the future.