Bush approves only of heterosexual marriage

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Well they can always say no and not accept the fee for the use of the church and usually a hall for the reception.

 

[Encryptic]

Originally posted by: Netopia

The people who should be concerned with making sure their marriage works are the people getting married in the first place.

Well, considering the divorce rate in this country it doesn't look like they are quite up to the task, does it?

The minister doesn't have any business telling people to get counseling before they get married, nor should he be placed in charge of doing so.

You're speaking about what you don't even know about. Did it ever occur to you that the congregations WANT their ministers to do these things? Mine does and the church WANTS him to. The ONLY marriage that I know of where the couple was told they shouldn't get married went elsewhere and had it done... and were divorced within a couple years. It's ONLY the third divorce I know of out of people at my church in the last 15 years.

If I lied to "God" by saying "I do", then I don't really care. I wasn't lying to my wife, however and that's all that really matters to me. We affirmed our commitment in the eyes of the law at a wedding chapel in Vegas because that was the quickest and easiest way for us to get married.

The point wouldn't be who you lied to, so much as it would be an indication of charecter for you to be willing to lie to have a "church" wedding. To be honest, the point may be moot since I've no idea what sort of a "religious person" was in the Vegas Wedding Chapel. Again... I don't think your marriage is less of a marriage, but your hypocricy in using a religious symbol/institution when you don't even believe speaks volumes.

Joe

Oh, I see your point now. Let's just legislate a law forbidding people to make mistakes. Also, trusting in a religious leader to tell you what to do is not always the wisest choice you can make. Look at David Koresh, for example. If your church wanted the minister to ah heck little kids, would you think that was OK because "the church wants him to"? What if he told prospective married couples to sleep around instead?

So I "lied" to get married. Oh dear me, I'm soooooo dishonest now. You're taking one example and blowing it completely out of proportion. I simply took the most expedient path to get married and legitimize our union in the eyes of the law. If that had been by going to a justice of the peace, then I would have done that rather than "profane" your "sacred" ritual. Forgive me, Jerry Falwell.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Good fvcking grief!! It's not a sacred ceremony of religion! Maybe they picked the church for its architectural beauty or was the only place available for a ceremony.

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

It's all Pomp and Ceremony Joe, there is no Hipocrasy. If you don't believe in the Mythology then you aren't lying to any Diety.

Quite possibly to an unbeliever who decides to join in, but it is very disrespectful to the people whose religion is being used... and I'm using "used" in the most negative manner possible. And I still think it's hypocritical.

Joe

How are you being used?

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

I suppose.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

It's all Pomp and Ceremony Joe, there is no Hipocrasy. If you don't believe in the Mythology then you aren't lying to any Diety.

Quite possibly to an unbeliever who decides to join in, but it is very disrespectful to the people whose religion is being used... and I'm using "used" in the most negative manner possible. And I still think it's hypocritical.

Joe

How are you being used?

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

I suppose.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

Well, sure...and convert a few heathens along the way, too.

😉

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

It's all Pomp and Ceremony Joe, there is no Hipocrasy. If you don't believe in the Mythology then you aren't lying to any Diety.

Quite possibly to an unbeliever who decides to join in, but it is very disrespectful to the people whose religion is being used... and I'm using "used" in the most negative manner possible. And I still think it's hypocritical.

Joe

How are you being used?

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

I suppose.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

Well, sure...and convert a few heathens along the way, too.

😉

Hey if they can so be it!🙂

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

It's all Pomp and Ceremony Joe, there is no Hipocrasy. If you don't believe in the Mythology then you aren't lying to any Diety.

Quite possibly to an unbeliever who decides to join in, but it is very disrespectful to the people whose religion is being used... and I'm using "used" in the most negative manner possible. And I still think it's hypocritical.

Joe

How are you being used?

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

I suppose.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

Well, sure...and convert a few heathens along the way, too.

😉

Hey if they can so be it!🙂

But...won't be any same-sex heathens, though.

😛

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

It's all Pomp and Ceremony Joe, there is no Hipocrasy. If you don't believe in the Mythology then you aren't lying to any Diety.

Quite possibly to an unbeliever who decides to join in, but it is very disrespectful to the people whose religion is being used... and I'm using "used" in the most negative manner possible. And I still think it's hypocritical.

Joe

How are you being used?

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

I suppose.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

Well, sure...and convert a few heathens along the way, too.

😉

Hey if they can so be it!🙂

But...won't be any same-sex heathens, though.

😛

I guess those Buggerers will have to go to the Unitarian Church!

 

[Netopia]

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

Not just my belief system... whomever's belief system was involved. It's two faced. It's like making fun of homosexuals and then being really nice to a homosexual because you want to get him to purchase something from your business and then going back to making fun of them... it is quite simply, lacking in integrity and moral fiber. And no, I'm not perfect and I do things I shouldn't sometimes too, and at those times I shouldn't be doing whatever it is I may have been doing... i.e. I'm not trying to act "holier than thou" as much as point out the hypocricy of non-believers using the trappings of belief for their personal pleasure.

Also, trusting in a religious leader to tell you what to do is not always the wisest choice you can make.

I'd agree... fortunately good couseling doesn't consist of someone telling you what to do as much as asking questions and helping to bring what might be future issues out into the fore.

Look at David Koresh, for example. If your church wanted the minister to ah heck little kids, would you think that was OK because "the church wants him to"? What if he told prospective married couples to sleep around instead?

I go to a congregational style church... the people have power and rule via vote constrained by a constitution (sort of like our Government). If a pastor were to do those things we would have him removed.

So I "lied" to get married. Oh dear me, I'm soooooo dishonest now. You're taking one example and blowing it completely out of proportion. I simply took the most expedient path to get married and legitimize our union in the eyes of the law. If that had been by going to a justice of the peace, then I would have done that rather than "profane" your "sacred" ritual. Forgive me, Jerry Falwell.

Dude... take a valium! I was just trying to make a point!

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

I would say not... which I alluded to in my post.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

Funny you should mention that. To the best of my knowledge, my church doesn't charge anyone for those services... they consider performing a sacred ceremony like that (and funerals and stuff) a part of their duty as ministers. I think sometimes people may give a gift as a "thanks" but nothing is ever required or asked for in any way, shape or form.


If I don't get a chance to post again, I hope everyone has a great weekend! If I do... well... see you then!

Joe

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Netopia

Because a person who gets married in a church (with its religious overtones) but cares nothing of religion and doesn't believe in God is raping his belief system. He's offended.

Not just my belief system... whomever's belief system was involved. It's two faced. It's like making fun of homosexuals and then being really nice to a homosexual because you want to get him to purchase something from your business and then going back to making fun of them... it is quite simply, lacking in integrity and moral fiber. And no, I'm not perfect and I do things I shouldn't sometimes too, and at those times I shouldn't be doing whatever it is I may have been doing... i.e. I'm not trying to act "holier than thou" as much as point out the hypocricy of non-believers using the trappings of belief for their personal pleasure.

Also, trusting in a religious leader to tell you what to do is not always the wisest choice you can make.

I'd agree... fortunately good couseling doesn't consist of someone telling you what to do as much as asking questions and helping to bring what might be future issues out into the fore.

Look at David Koresh, for example. If your church wanted the minister to ah heck little kids, would you think that was OK because "the church wants him to"? What if he told prospective married couples to sleep around instead?

I go to a congregational style church... the people have power and rule via vote constrained by a constitution (sort of like our Government). If a pastor were to do those things we would have him removed.

So I "lied" to get married. Oh dear me, I'm soooooo dishonest now. You're taking one example and blowing it completely out of proportion. I simply took the most expedient path to get married and legitimize our union in the eyes of the law. If that had been by going to a justice of the peace, then I would have done that rather than "profane" your "sacred" ritual. Forgive me, Jerry Falwell.

Dude... take a valium! I was just trying to make a point!

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

I would say not... which I alluded to in my post.

I doubt Joe would consider it raping. I don't know about his church but there are many who perform the services for monetary gains (to support the Church and it's programs) Don't get me wrong as I think that is a reasonable way to help raising funds and supplementing the Ministers income.

Funny you should mention that. To the best of my knowledge, my church doesn't charge anyone for those services... they consider performing a sacred ceremony like that (and funerals and stuff) a part of their duty as ministers. I think sometimes people may give a gift as a "thanks" but nothing is ever required or asked for in any way, shape or form.


If I don't get a chance to post again, I hope everyone has a great weekend! If I do... well... see you then!

Joe

See ya Buddy!

 

[HardwareAddicted]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Good fvcking grief!! It's not a sacred ceremony of religion! Maybe they picked the church for its architectural beauty or was the only place available for a ceremony.

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

Maybe you missed it, but that is what a sacred thing becomes, when man defiles it.

It is sacred, and it always has been. It was MAN that changed it.

And it was MAN that decided to give tax breaks & heath care benifits to those who got married.....
hence the same sex groups that now want the same tax breaks and health care.

But of course, they defile the ceremony by making it a "drive thru" .... like Elvis and Las Vegas do every day.

I'm sure our Heavenly Father will take it for what it's worth ..... nobody is fooling him.

~ Mark

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: HardwareAddicted

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Good fvcking grief!! It's not a sacred ceremony of religion! Maybe they picked the church for its architectural beauty or was the only place available for a ceremony.

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

Maybe you missed it, but that is what a sacred thing becomes, when man defiles it.

It is sacred, and it always has been. It was MAN that changed it.

And it was MAN that decided to give tax breaks & heath care benifits to those who got married.....
hence the same sex groups that now want the same tax breaks and health care.

But of course, they defile the ceremony by making it a "drive thru" .... like Elvis and Las Vegas do every day.

I'm sure our Heavenly Father will take it for what it's worth ..... nobody is fooling him.

~ Mark

You see the last line in your post is where we differ. To us there is no diety who we have to answer too and we don't believe that others who don't believe as you do should have to either.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: HardwareAddicted

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Good fvcking grief!! It's not a sacred ceremony of religion! Maybe they picked the church for its architectural beauty or was the only place available for a ceremony.

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

Maybe you missed it, but that is what a sacred thing becomes, when man defiles it.

It is sacred, and it always has been. It was MAN that changed it.

And it was MAN that decided to give tax breaks & heath care benifits to those who got married.....
hence the same sex groups that now want the same tax breaks and health care.

But of course, they defile the ceremony by making it a "drive thru" .... like Elvis and Las Vegas do every day.

I'm sure our Heavenly Father will take it for what it's worth ..... nobody is fooling him.

~ Mark

So...let's see...the ancient Egyptians, Native Americans, Aborigines, etc. all were finding lifetime partners and getting 'married' in whatever fashion their culture was for religious reasons?

'twas MAN that created religion (out of ignorance of science and fear of the unknown).

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: HardwareAddicted

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Good fvcking grief!! It's not a sacred ceremony of religion! Maybe they picked the church for its architectural beauty or was the only place available for a ceremony.

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

Maybe you missed it, but that is what a sacred thing becomes, when man defiles it.

It is sacred, and it always has been. It was MAN that changed it.

And it was MAN that decided to give tax breaks & heath care benifits to those who got married.....
hence the same sex groups that now want the same tax breaks and health care.

But of course, they defile the ceremony by making it a "drive thru" .... like Elvis and Las Vegas do every day.

I'm sure our Heavenly Father will take it for what it's worth ..... nobody is fooling him.

~ Mark

So...let's see...the ancient Egyptians, Native Americans, Aborigines, etc. all were finding lifetime partners and getting 'married' in whatever fashion their culture was for religious reasons?

'twas MAN that created religion (out of ignorance of science and fear of the unknown).

Didn't the Polynesians (Hawains) have an open attitude about sex until the Christian Missionaries set upon them and made their lives a living hell?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: HardwareAddicted

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Netopia

How are you being used?

I'm not... the religious organization is, be it Hindu, Buddist, Pagan or Christian. It isn't right to enter into the sacred ceremonies of a religion that you don't believe in.

Joe

Good fvcking grief!! It's not a sacred ceremony of religion! Maybe they picked the church for its architectural beauty or was the only place available for a ceremony.

Is a road-side marriage chapel filled with Elvis impersonators a sacred temple?

Maybe you missed it, but that is what a sacred thing becomes, when man defiles it.

It is sacred, and it always has been. It was MAN that changed it.

And it was MAN that decided to give tax breaks & heath care benifits to those who got married.....
hence the same sex groups that now want the same tax breaks and health care.

But of course, they defile the ceremony by making it a "drive thru" .... like Elvis and Las Vegas do every day.

I'm sure our Heavenly Father will take it for what it's worth ..... nobody is fooling him.

~ Mark

So...let's see...the ancient Egyptians, Native Americans, Aborigines, etc. all were finding lifetime partners and getting 'married' in whatever fashion their culture was for religious reasons?

'twas MAN that created religion (out of ignorance of science and fear of the unknown).

Didn't the Polynesians (Hawains) have an open attitude about sex until the Christian Missionaries set upon them and made their lives a living hell?

Interesting article here...

 

[CrazyDe1]

That's the problem with this president. He lets his personal bias and his own opinions influence how he does his job. If it were me, personally, would prefer gay people to not be married. Would I want to ban them from doing so? No. The problem is he's willing to infringe on people's freedoms and take away people's rights because of his personal moral stance on something. His job should be to uphold individual freedoms, not infringe on them...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
That's the problem with this president. He lets his personal bias and his own opinions influence how he does his job. If it were me, personally, would prefer gay people to not be married. Would I want to ban them from doing so? No. The problem is he's willing to infringe on people's freedoms and take away people's rights because of his personal moral stance on something. His job should be to uphold individual freedoms, not infringe on them...

WERD!!!

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
That's the problem with this president. He lets his personal bias and his own opinions influence how he does his job. If it were me, personally, would prefer gay people to not be married. Would I want to ban them from doing so? No. The problem is he's willing to infringe on people's freedoms and take away people's rights because of his personal moral stance on something. His job should be to uphold individual freedoms, not infringe on them...

Hear! Hear!

 

[Netopia]

WERD!!!

Ummmm.... second childhood Red? 😉

Joe

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Netopia

WERD!!!

Ummmm.... second childhood Red? 😉

Joe

No Mid-Life Crisis

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

WERD!!!

Ummmm.... second childhood Red? 😉

Joe

No Mid-Life Crisis

Your dyslexia is showing again...it's supposed to be:

Mid-NoLife Crisis




😉

 

[Wuffsunie]

Originally posted by: Netopia

But you fail to understand he is overstepping his bounds with that statement he made.

"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, and I think we ought to codify that one way or another..."

How is the man overstepping his bounds? Let us assume for a moment that he simply had an intrinsic belief that it was wrong; would you be less up in arms because he just "felt" that way rather than having a religious basis for his position?

The problem that people here are seeing is not that he has an opinion, but that he has the power and the already-demonstrated will to enfore those opinions on the rest of the country. You even have the quote "I believe..." as opposed to "The will of the courts says that marriage..." or "The will of the people says that marriage...". While I agree that the whole reason we have leaders in the first place is so that they can make decisions for us, in a democratic society like the US the will of the people should be respected and at the very least inquired upon, on issues that affect core ideas of that society.

For the two countries that legalized gay marriage, I am pretty sure it was done based on various lower court rulings, eventually working its way up to the top level of government. Leaders there simply followed what had been expressed by others and their people. What Bush is doing is trying to ensure that nothing similar can happen in the US by cutting off challenges before they can happen. Even in the worst case for him, with the change eventually being removed, he'll have created years and decades worth of legal tangles that those willing to challenge it would have to work through.

-- Jack

I have great faith in fools -- self confidence my friends call it.
-- Edgar Allan Poe

 

[Netopia]

No Mid-Life Crisis

LOL... time to go, kids are a calling me to watch a movie with 'em.

Joe

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Netopia

WERD!!!

Ummmm.... second childhood Red? 😉

Joe

No Mid-Life Crisis

Your dyslexia is showing again...it's supposed to be:

Mid-NoLife Crisis




😉

Ahahaha..Ahahaha.. wait a second.. Hmmmm DOH!!!!!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Netopia

No Mid-Life Crisis

LOL... time to go, kids are a calling me to watch a movie with 'em.

Joe

Enjoy Bubba.🙂

BTW, all you who enjoy ATOT have Joe to thank for this forum. If it wasn't for him this place might not exist!