Bush and Walker already arguing on when to start a war with Iran.

[JSt0rm]

Really? You think Iran would have their entire country nuked to nuke Israel? That seems a little far fetched.

 

[JSt0rm]

Also the Sunnis are the more hardliners region. Shiats are more moderate.

 

[Indus]

I had a long reply written out explaining the difference between a border skirmish (India and Pakistan) vs an existential threat (US invading Iran,) but then I remembered that you're that idiot from the Tom Selleck thread. What a surprise, you're an anti-semite as well.

Personal attacks about anti-semitism from a guy with a Nazi resembling avatar over an actual logical reply. But anyways..

If you mean caring about my fellow Americans over another country makes me an idiot in your mind.. then yes I am proudly.

Great logic there.. you should be able to be voted congressman with that!

Personally for me “An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ”

What has Israel ever done for us? Have they fought a war for us, alongside us? Have they helped us pay off the national debt? Have they given us aid? Name 5 reasons why Israel is an ally worth keeping and worth fighting wars for.

Who's the idiot again?

 

[Nebor]

Not wanting to spend american blood and treasure makes you a antisemite? Good to know.

It's not in the best interest of anyone but Iran for Iran to develop nuclear weapons. We have shared interests with Israel in this case. A nuclear armed Iran becomes an exponentially more powerful regional influence, and will almost certainly guarantee Saudi Arabia announces nukes in response. When Iran no longer has to fear regime change, they can do whatever they want. They no longer have to live under the spectre of US military might destroying their infrastructure and deposing their leaders. This has economic, political and religious ramifications.

 

[JSt0rm]

It's not in the best interest of anyone but Iran for Iran to develop nuclear weapons. We have shared interests with Israel in this case. A nuclear armed Iran becomes an exponentially more powerful regional influence, and will almost certainly guarantee Saudi Arabia announces nukes in response. When Iran no longer has to fear regime change, they can do whatever they want. They no longer have to live under the spectre of US military might destroying their infrastructure and deposing their leaders. This has economic, political and religious ramifications.

Ok so this stops them for like 20 years. Or should we bomb them into the stone age so they wont have them for 300 years? Most reasonable people dont consider that a solution.

 

[nickqt]

Listen, guys.

Many countries out there would probably like nuclear weapons.

In order to stop them from potentially using a nuclear weapon or selling a nuclear weapon, we should preemptively destroy their country, possibly with nuclear weapons of our own (!!!!!).

Just to be safe

The cognitive dissonance of some people is hilarious and very disturbing.

 

[JSt0rm]

Listen, guys.

Many countries out there would probably like nuclear weapons.

In order to stop them from potentially using a nuclear weapon or selling a nuclear weapon, we should preemptively destroy their country, possibly with nuclear weapons of our own (!!!!!).

Just to be safe

The cognitive dissonance of some people is hilarious and very disturbing.

The first time we did that a bunch of countries would develop nukes quickly because they know once they have them we wont attack them.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's not in the best interest of anyone but Iran for Iran to develop nuclear weapons. We have shared interests with Israel in this case. A nuclear armed Iran becomes an exponentially more powerful regional influence, and will almost certainly guarantee Saudi Arabia announces nukes in response. When Iran no longer has to fear regime change, they can do whatever they want. They no longer have to live under the spectre of US military might destroying their infrastructure and deposing their leaders. This has economic, political and religious ramifications.

I'm continuously amazed at the presumption that Iran can produce weapons grade materials under IAEA supervision, or that IAEA supervision ends when the rest of the agreement phases out way down the road.

It does not. The agreement allows Iran to increase supervised production of LEU to meet the needs of their planned reactor program. Those reactors & all phases of nuclear material handling will remain under IAEA supervision as well, just as it does for all NPT member nations.

Therein lies the fatal flaw in all the presumptive fear mongering. No weapons grade materials, no weapons.

What's really happened here is that Iran has successfully challenged our long standing policy of regime change with their nuclear program. They forced a choice, a nuclear armed Iran or some other way. We & the rest of the 5+1 chose wisely, found another way.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm continuously amazed at the presumption that Iran can produce weapons grade materials under IAEA supervision, or that IAEA supervision ends when the rest of the agreement phases out way down the road.

It does not. The agreement allows Iran to increase supervised production of LEU to meet the needs of their planned reactor program. Those reactors & all phases of nuclear material handling will remain under IAEA supervision as well, just as it does for all NPT member nations.

Therein lies the fatal flaw in all the presumptive fear mongering. No weapons grade materials, no weapons.

What's really happened here is that Iran has successfully challenged our long standing policy of regime change with their nuclear program. They forced a choice, a nuclear armed Iran or some other way. We & the rest of the 5+1 chose wisely, found another way.

Whats really amazing is they think the US government cant do anything but somehow the iran government could develop icbm missiles and so much weapons grade uranium while under supervision. Is it just the us government that conservatives think are incompetent or is it all government anywhere? It doesnt make any sense.

 

[nickqt]

Whats really amazing is they think the US government cant do anything but somehow the iran government could develop icbm missiles and so much weapons grade uranium while under supervision. Is it just the us government that conservatives think are incompetent or is it all government anywhere? It doesnt make any sense.

They believe whatever they choose to believe right now, and will effortlessly believe something else when need be. Cognitive dissonance is a son of a bitch.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is no depth to which the pathology of the CBD can't sink. To suggest that you are going to nuke a country on the day you are elected ought to cause the military to make sure you never get to election day. The last thing the human race needs is a psychopath as President of the United States. These imbeciles have gone so far around the bend, and the country with them, that we are marking ourselves as the greatest danger our there to the rest of the human race. I would suggest to any sane mind that can listen, that it's long past time we put on the brakes and nuke the CBD in its tracks. We do not need these total psychopaths at the center of the American Stage.

 

[Nebor]

I just can't imagine that Iran's endgame is anything BUT developing nuclear weapons. It's the only thing that can protect them against Western backed regime change, something we've proven we're more than willing to do.

In order to preserve our ability to carry out said regime changes, I believe it is of paramount importance to ensure Iran does not develop nuclear weapons.

If the agreement accomplishes that, then great. I simply don't trust that Iran only has energy in mind insofar as their nuclear aspirations go.

 

[JSt0rm]

I just can't imagine that Iran's endgame is anything BUT developing nuclear weapons. It's the only thing that can protect them against Western backed regime change, something we've proven we're more than willing to do.

In order to preserve our ability to carry out said regime changes, I believe it is of paramount importance to ensure Iran does not develop nuclear weapons.

If the agreement accomplishes that, then great. I simply don't trust that Iran only has energy in mind insofar as their nuclear aspirations go.

If they developed nukes they would be turned into a north Korea economically. They dont want that what they want is a 1500sq ft home and 2.2 kids.

 

[Nebor]

If they developed nukes they would be turned into a north Korea economically. They dont want that what they want is a 1500sq ft home and 2.2 kids.

North Korea isn't sitting on 10% of the world's oil reserves. And the desires of the Iranian people are oppressed by their democratically elected theocratic government, necessitating exactly the kind of regime change that would be made impossible if Iran develops a nuclear weapon.

 

[JSt0rm]

We have been trying it your way for the last 35 years. We are gonna try a different way now.

 

[Jhhnn]

I just can't imagine that Iran's endgame is anything BUT developing nuclear weapons. It's the only thing that can protect them against Western backed regime change, something we've proven we're more than willing to do.

In order to preserve our ability to carry out said regime changes, I believe it is of paramount importance to ensure Iran does not develop nuclear weapons.

If the agreement accomplishes that, then great. I simply don't trust that Iran only has energy in mind insofar as their nuclear aspirations go.

North Korea isn't sitting on 10% of the world's oil reserves. And the desires of the Iranian people are oppressed by their democratically elected theocratic government, necessitating exactly the kind of regime change that would be made impossible if Iran develops a nuclear weapon.

What if Iran's goal all along has been what's happening now?

We have essentially abandoned the policy of regime change contingent upon Iran's compliance with the agreement. We have granted their govt the legitimacy we've denied them since 1978 in doing so. That's huge. It allows them further normalization of relations with the ROTW & with us as well.

Iranians see this as a great victory, which it is only in that context. If their intent were to create weapons rather than to call our hand, they wouldn't have agreed to mothballing key facilities & downblending stocks of LEU. They let go of those things because they've served their purpose.

It also allows change in their society as well. Their hardliners gain traction only by having Uncle Sam breathing down their necks. Iranians crave liberalization & they'll find a way to have it, much like what happened wrt Russia & China. Those people now enjoy much greater freedom when relieved of our overbearing hostility.

I doubt any of it means that our other friends in the region can't find ways to profit from it as well. They just have to realize that our feud with Iran is coming to an end no matter how badly they wish it wasn't. Should Iran hold up their end of the bargain, we won't be goaded into aggression against Iran to serve others' purposes as we were w/ Iraq. No more wag the dog.

 

[trenchfoot]

What if Iran's goal all along has been what's happening now?

We have essentially abandoned the policy of regime change contingent upon Iran's compliance with the agreement. We have granted their govt the legitimacy we've denied them since 1978 in doing so. That's huge. It allows them further normalization of relations with the ROTW & with us as well.

Iranians see this as a great victory, which it is only in that context. If their intent were to create weapons rather than to call our hand, they wouldn't have agreed to mothballing key facilities & downblending stocks of LEU. They let go of those things because they've served their purpose.

It also allows change in their society as well. Their hardliners gain traction only by having Uncle Sam breathing down their necks. Iranians crave liberalization & they'll find a way to have it, much like what happened wrt Russia & China. Those people now enjoy much greater freedom when relieved of our overbearing hostility.

I doubt any of it means that our other friends in the region can't find ways to profit from it as well. They just have to realize that our feud with Iran is coming to an end no matter how badly they wish it wasn't. Should Iran hold up their end of the bargain, we won't be goaded into aggression against Iran to serve others' purposes as we were w/ Iraq. No more wag the dog.

Great post. :thumbsup:

 

[sandorski]

At least Bush shows some nuance to his stance. Walker's position is just blind bloodlust not interested in any contrarian details one might receive once in the position of power.

 

[JSt0rm]

But how does trump, the front runner feel?

 

[dawheat]

North Korea isn't sitting on 10% of the world's oil reserves. And the desires of the Iranian people are oppressed by their democratically elected theocratic government, necessitating exactly the kind of regime change that would be made impossible if Iran develops a nuclear weapon.

OMFG - necessitating regime change. I honestly can't believe what I read sometimes. It wouldn't just be Iraq, but Iraq x10 to accomplish that and for what?

Spend a fraction of that amount and get the US economy off imported oil. Then use the threat of overwhelming annihilation and crippling sanctions if they happen to develop a nuke decades down the road. Their government is far more rational than say Pakistan or our favorite NK.

Economic prosperity and iphones will bring about regime change sooner than that. My kids will be watching the rich kids of Tehran on TV.

 

[sportage]

Walker is ahead in iOwa republican polls.
THAT should tell you everything you need to know. LOL haha hehe

 

[dank69]

I just can't imagine that Iran's endgame is anything BUT developing nuclear weapons. It's the only thing that can protect them against Western backed regime change, something we've proven we're more than willing to do.

In order to preserve our ability to carry out said regime changes, I believe it is of paramount importance to ensure Iran does not develop nuclear weapons.

If the agreement accomplishes that, then great. I simply don't trust that Iran only has energy in mind insofar as their nuclear aspirations go.

Or, and I know this sounds a little crazy but, maybe we shouldn't be in the business of regime changes? Maybe is isn't any of our fucking business?

 

[Jaskalas]

Or, and I know this sounds a little crazy but, maybe we shouldn't be in the business of regime changes? Maybe is isn't any of our fucking business?

The motivation is stopping nuclear proliferation. You act like we have no reason. You act like you don't give a !@#$ who has nukes, religious zealots with radiation and bombs is something that works for you?

 

[dank69]

The motivation is stopping nuclear proliferation. You act like we have no reason. You act like you don't give a !@#$ who has nukes, religious zealots with radiation and bombs is something that works for you?

Yes. That's right. All these other countries have nukes and it doesn't affect my life in the slightest. People that are that worried about it are basically like old ladies in a sewing circle in a rich suburb worried about crime rates in cities they will never visit in their life.

 

[Spungo]

This would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous.

What's fucked up is that nobody sees how fucked up it is. Can you imagine presidential candidates talking about rape in such a casual way?
"I think we should rape 10,000 women."
"I disagree. We should rape at least 30,000 women."
People would be horrified. Change it to "We should kill at least one million civilians" and people agree with the statement. It's unbelievable. People were upset when Clinton slept with his secretary. Where were those people when Bush and Obama killed thousands upon thousands of civilians? Clinton was nearly kicked out of office for having sex and lying about it. Bush was elected for a second term after he lied to the world so he could murder thousands of people; current estimate is up around 500,000 deaths. It's not like these were centuries apart. These were within ~5 years of each other.