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Bush Adviser Warns of Social Security Cuts

BBond

Diamond Member
"No free lunches"??? After government raided Social Security funds for years. Despicable. We had a surplus and an opportunity to plan for the retirement of the baby boom generation. But the surplus was better spent enriching the already rich.

I sincerely hope all the retirees who voted for Bush enjoy choosing between working until they drop or starving.

Bush Adviser Warns of Social Security Cuts

By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

Published: December 3, 2004

WASHINGTON, Dec. 2 - Calling the current system of Social Security benefits unsustainable, a top economic adviser to President Bush on Thursday strongly implied that any overhaul of the system would have to include major cuts in guaranteed benefits for future retirees.

"Let me state clearly that there are no free lunches here," said N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, at a conference on tax policy here.

"The benefits now scheduled for future generations under current law are not sustainable given the projected path of payroll tax revenue," he added. "They are empty promises."

Mr. Mankiw's remarks suggested that President Bush's plan to let people put some of their Social Security taxes into "personal savings accounts" would have to be accompanied by changes in the current system of benefits.

Throughout the presidential campaign and in remarks after he was re-elected, Mr. Bush focused almost exclusively on these accounts as a crucial way to shore up Social Security. Most experts have said that the accounts must be accompanied by other belt-tightening measures. When asked about cuts in future benefits, Mr. Bush, however, has said only that any overhaul should make no changes in the benefits for people in retirement or near retirement. The president has said that overhauling the Social Security system would involve "costs," but so far he has not indicated what those might be.

In his speech, Mr. Mankiw flatly rejected raising taxes as a means of saving the federal retirement system, which government actuaries say is on track to become insolvent by 2042 if no changes are made to the current law. Instead, he took particular aim at a specific feature of current law under which retirement benefits are linked to the rise in wages rather than the rise in consumer prices.

"Each generation of retirees receives higher real benefits than the generation before it," Mr. Mankiw said. Because wages typically climb faster than inflation, he said, an average worker retiring in 2050 would get benefits that are 40 percent higher, after inflation, than a comparable worker who retires this year.

Mr. Mankiw emphasized that Mr. Bush has yet to decide on a specific proposal for fixing Social Security, except that it would have to include personal accounts and that it would not include raising taxes. But the issue he highlighted is at the center of a major debate within the administration and among Congressional Republicans.

Policy analysts say changing the way benefits are calculated could save trillions of dollars in decades to come. But it would imply significant reductions from the benefits promised under today's laws. The idea behind personal accounts is that workers, by making investments in stocks and bonds, could more than make up the difference with extra earnings.

In what seemed an effort to anticipate complaints that a new system would reduce future benefits, Mr. Mankiw warned that the benefits promised under current law are fictitious because they cannot be afforded.

"Be wary of comparisons between a new, reformed Social Security system and current law," Mr. Mankiw said. "Unless a listener is discerning, empty promises will always have a superficial appeal."

Claire Buchan, a White House spokeswoman, said Mr. Bush had not decided on a specific plan and refused to comment on any need for reductions in future benefits.

"The president is committed to strengthening Social Security for younger workers so they don't face the massive tax increases or benefit reductions that are certain with inaction," Ms. Buchan said.

The specific issue that Mr. Mankiw highlighted on Thursday, though seemingly obscure, involves the level at which a person's initial benefit is set at the time he or she retires. Under the current formula, which was established by Congress in 1978, the annual benefit is pegged to increases in average wages while the person was working.

The idea was to keep retirement incomes in line with overall wages from generation to generation, and analysts said the formula was far more generous than simply pegging benefits to inflation.

Kent Smetters, a former Treasury official under President Bush who is now an associate professor at the Wharton School of Business, said linking benefits to inflation would in itself save trillions of dollars. But Professor Smetters said the idea was not as tame as it sounded. Although retirement incomes would not be eroded by inflation, the guaranteed benefits of retired people would be lower, and lower than average incomes, as time went on.

 
I think America is going to be facing a real crisis in the next 20 years. We have over 50 million people who are going to be over 65 years of age. How is the government going to take care of these people? Where is the money going to come from and how are we going to give these people the medical attention that they are going to desperately need? It's scary to even think about it and the in-action on this matter is appalling.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
"No free lunches"??? After government raided Social Security funds for years. Despicable. We had a surplus and an opportunity to plan for the retirement of the baby boom generation. But the surplus was better spent enriching the already rich.

I sincerely hope all the retirees who voted for Bush enjoy choosing between working until they drop or starving.

You make it sound like the tactic of buying US Treasury bonds with SS surpluses is something unique to Bush. 😛

And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.
 
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
"No free lunches"??? After government raided Social Security funds for years. Despicable. We had a surplus and an opportunity to plan for the retirement of the baby boom generation. But the surplus was better spent enriching the already rich.

I sincerely hope all the retirees who voted for Bush enjoy choosing between working until they drop or starving.

You make it sound like the tactic of buying US Treasury bonds with SS surpluses is something unique to Bush. 😛

And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

It isn't unique to Bush and my statement says so. But Bush had a surplus to help shore up SS before the baby boomers retired and he decided to give it all away instead.

Fiscal responsibility never was a Bush strong suit.

 
And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

Tell that to the millionaires whose unnecessary budget busting tax bonanza turned surplus into deficit.

They could afford to take a hit for the country better than people reaching retirement age who contributed to Social Security all their lives.

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
"No free lunches"??? After government raided Social Security funds for years. Despicable. We had a surplus and an opportunity to plan for the retirement of the baby boom generation. But the surplus was better spent enriching the already rich.

I sincerely hope all the retirees who voted for Bush enjoy choosing between working until they drop or starving.

You make it sound like the tactic of buying US Treasury bonds with SS surpluses is something unique to Bush. 😛

And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

It isn't unique to Bush and my statement says so. But Bush had a surplus to help shore up SS before the baby boomers retired and he decided to give it all away instead.

Fiscal responsibility never was a Bush strong suit.

Do you want the government to change your diapers too? Would it be too much to ask that people privately save on their own?

He may not have plans to save or improve SS (as if many want him to), but it's not like he made the mess.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

Tell that to the millionaires whose unnecessary budget busting tax bonanza turned surplus into deficit.

They could afford to take a hit for the country better than people reaching retirement age who contributed to Social Security all their lives.

We could point fingers all day long, but unless someone cinches up their belts, nothing's going to happen.
 
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

Tell that to the millionaires whose unnecessary budget busting tax bonanza turned surplus into deficit.

They could afford to take a hit for the country better than people reaching retirement age who contributed to Social Security all their lives.

We could point fingers all day long, but unless someone cinches up their belts, nothing's going to happen.

OK, tell Bush and his rich buddies to start cinching.

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

Tell that to the millionaires whose unnecessary budget busting tax bonanza turned surplus into deficit.

They could afford to take a hit for the country better than people reaching retirement age who contributed to Social Security all their lives.

We could point fingers all day long, but unless someone cinches up their belts, nothing's going to happen.

OK, tell Bush and his rich buddies to start cinching.

Ba dump, tsh.

Brilliant response.
 
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
"No free lunches"??? After government raided Social Security funds for years. Despicable. We had a surplus and an opportunity to plan for the retirement of the baby boom generation. But the surplus was better spent enriching the already rich.

I sincerely hope all the retirees who voted for Bush enjoy choosing between working until they drop or starving.

You make it sound like the tactic of buying US Treasury bonds with SS surpluses is something unique to Bush. 😛

And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

It isn't unique to Bush and my statement says so. But Bush had a surplus to help shore up SS before the baby boomers retired and he decided to give it all away instead.

Fiscal responsibility never was a Bush strong suit.

Do you want the government to change your diapers too? Would it be too much to ask that people privately save on their own?

He may not have plans to save or improve SS (as if many want him to), but it's not like he made the mess.

Cue up the Princess Bride quote, "I don't think that word [or phrase in this case] means what you think it means." Fiscal responsibility isn't the government "changing your diapers", it's not spending billions of dollars that you don't have resulting in an inability to make good on your existing obligations. Whether or not you personally feel Social Security is necessary, the fact remains that it's a program that people count on that is going to have a lot of trouble due in a large part to our government's inability to spend responsibly. Speaking of people saving money, if the government followed your sage advice, they would have the extra money social security will need in the next several years. But they didn't, so they don't.

I personally think Social Security was a stupid idea in the first place...people SHOULD save on their own. But the program is in place now, and people count on it. Just letting it fall apart because we didn't plan well enough seems pretty sketchy to me.
 
My question is in the 30 plus years I have to retirement and all the money I am required to put into SS, what happens when I am supposed to get money back?

Basically what I'm saying is, if I have given the government 50 plus years of SS payements and SS does not exits when I retire, can I sue the government for stealing my money? It was mine after all, they took it to "invest" and lost it. We have no option to not contribute to SS so us 30 somethings are just getting bullied into giving money to the government "mob".

Thoughts?
 
People have paid Social Security taxes all their working lives. They deserve the benefits they paid for and were promised. SS participation was MANDATORY. Our money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it. We had no choice in the matter. Now, just as many of us are about to retire, we're told "there's no free lunch" by the same person who told America the Bush administration would create 2.6 million jobs in 2004.

Mankiw doesn't have to worry about his retirement plan. He's won't be depending on Social Security. Funny, he has the nerve to accuse people who paid their SS taxes of wanting a free lunch while government officials like him get the real free lunch in the form of their taxpayer funded retirement plans.

An interesting opinion on Bush's plans to destroy SS from EJ Dionne.

The Price of Imprudent Reform

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, November 30, 2004; Page A19

Telling the truth is underrated in politics. When a president proposes big ideas under the banner of "reform," he needs us to believe what he says about the cost of his grand design.

That's why President Bush carries a heavy burden in trying to sell the country on his plan to carve private accounts out of Social Security. Bush has been pushing privatization since he first ran for the presidency in 2000. But he keeps changing his explanation of how the program will be paid for and what its effect on the deficit will be.

His main opponents four years ago, Sen. John McCain in the Republican primaries and Democrat Al Gore, both tried to call Bush on his claims. Nobody paid much attention then. Everyone ought to now.

The big cost of privatization comes from allowing individuals to keep a share of the Social Security taxes they now pay into the system and use it for private investment accounts. This reduces the amount of money available to pay current beneficiaries. Since Bush has promised the retired and those near retirement that their benefits won't be cut, he needs to find cash somewhere. The only options are to raid the rest of the budget, to raise taxes or to borrow big time.

But don't worry, be happy, Bush insisted four years ago. He could avoid those nasty options, push through a big tax cut and create private accounts because the large budget surpluses built up during Bill Clinton's presidency would allow us to have it all.

"There's enough money to take care of Social Security," Bush said during the 2000 primaries. "There is enough money to meet the basic needs of our government. And there is enough money to give the American people a substantial tax cut, and that's what I intend to do."

During the third debate with Al Gore, Bush was equally confident. "One of my promises is going to be Social Security reform and you bet, we need to take a trillion dollars out of that $2.4 trillion surplus."

Both McCain and Gore tried to insist that free lunches don't exist. "It's fiscally irresponsible to promise a huge tax cut that is based on a surplus that we may not have," McCain told Bush at the time of the 2000 South Carolina primary. "I'm very optimistic about the economic future of this country, but to bank it all on unending surpluses at the possible risk of the Social Security trust fund is our fundamental disagreement."

Gore also challenged Bush on his numbers. "He has promised a trillion dollars out of the Social Security trust fund for young working adults to invest and save on their own, but he's promised seniors that their Social Security benefits will not be cut and he's promised the same trillion dollars to them," Gore said at that third presidential debate. "Which one of those promises will you keep and which will you break, Governor?"

McCain was right that it was a mistake to bank on "unending surpluses." But Bush is about to offer an easy answer to Gore's challenge: More borrowing. Since Bush has not been punished so far for running up the deficit, why not change the argument entirely and add yet more to the debt -- which Bush promised not to do in 2000?

I'm not making this up. Last week The Post's Jonathan Weisman reported that Republicans were considering moving the costs of social security reform "off-budget" so that, on paper at least, they wouldn't inflate the deficit. And Joshua B. Bolten, the director of the White House's Office of Management and Budget, let the cat out of the bag over the weekend in an interview with Richard W. Stevenson of the New York Times. "The president does support personal accounts, which need not add over all to the cost of the program but could in the short run require additional borrowing to finance the transition," Bolten said. "I believe there's a strong case that this approach not only makes sense as a matter of savings policy, but is also fiscally prudent."

A huge new borrowing -- "from hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars over a decade," as Stevenson notes -- is suddenly "fiscally prudent" in the administration's eyes. Funny that Bush didn't try to make that argument to McCain or Gore.

Is it so outlandish to ask the president to square what he's saying now with what he said four years ago? And if Social Security privatization is supposed to be about making "younger workers" better off, as Bush has said, will he please explain why piling yet more debt on their backs should make them grateful?

 
Originally posted by: BBond
People have paid Social Security taxes all their working lives. They deserve the benefits they paid for and were promised. SS participation was MANDATORY. Our money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it. We had no choice in the matter.

SS is a TAX removed from our paychecks - and people have paid TAXES all their working lives. TAX money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it and have no choice in the matter. That's what the gov't does - it taxes you and then spends the tax it collects.
Yes, it's unfortunate that people bought into the SS scam but it's unsustainable and needs to be removed from our system.

The system needs to be fixed. Either now or later. I'm for fixing it now but you are free to want to push the scam on our children and our children's children if you wish.

CsG
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
People have paid Social Security taxes all their working lives. They deserve the benefits they paid for and were promised. SS participation was MANDATORY. Our money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it. We had no choice in the matter.

SS is a TAX removed from our paychecks - and people have paid TAXES all their working lives. TAX money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it and have no choice in the matter. That's what the gov't does - it taxes you and then spends the tax it collects.
Yes, it's unfortunate that people bought into the SS scam but it's unsustainable and needs to be removed from our system.

The system needs to be fixed. Either now or later. I'm for fixing it now but you are free to want to push the scam on our children and our children's children if you wish.

CsG
LOL bought into it, like we had a fscking choice. My father paid into it, I paid into it, might as well let future generations pay into it. Why should they not have to pay? Fsck it, we built the country they are living and prospering in..so much so that many can pay into it and still put away money to actually have a decent retirement fund.
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
People have paid Social Security taxes all their working lives. They deserve the benefits they paid for and were promised. SS participation was MANDATORY. Our money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it. We had no choice in the matter.

SS is a TAX removed from our paychecks - and people have paid TAXES all their working lives. TAX money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it and have no choice in the matter. That's what the gov't does - it taxes you and then spends the tax it collects.
Yes, it's unfortunate that people bought into the SS scam but it's unsustainable and needs to be removed from our system.

The system needs to be fixed. Either now or later. I'm for fixing it now but you are free to want to push the scam on our children and our children's children if you wish.

CsG

Nice idea, how do we "fix" it? If we suddenly don't have a Social Security tax any more, currently retired people would be screwed. And if we phase it out to pay for the currently retired but no one else, current working people will have a cow (rightly so) that they will never see any benefit from the money they have paid into social security. And since the government doesn't have enough extra money floating around to keep Social Security going by itself, just what exactly would we do to fix it?
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
People have paid Social Security taxes all their working lives. They deserve the benefits they paid for and were promised. SS participation was MANDATORY. Our money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it. We had no choice in the matter.

SS is a TAX removed from our paychecks - and people have paid TAXES all their working lives. TAX money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it and have no choice in the matter. That's what the gov't does - it taxes you and then spends the tax it collects.
Yes, it's unfortunate that people bought into the SS scam but it's unsustainable and needs to be removed from our system.

The system needs to be fixed. Either now or later. I'm for fixing it now but you are free to want to push the scam on our children and our children's children if you wish.

CsG

Nice idea, how do we "fix" it? If we suddenly don't have a Social Security tax any more, currently retired people would be screwed. And if we phase it out to pay for the currently retired but no one else, current working people will have a cow (rightly so) that they will never see any benefit from the money they have paid into social security. And since the government doesn't have enough extra money floating around to keep Social Security going by itself, just what exactly would we do to fix it?
How about paying back all the money that was taken from us ? I know that would mean that the younger people would have to pay more in taxes until it isachieved but they might as well bite the bullet and take one for the country as they have contributed less to it than the older citizens.

 
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: BBond
"No free lunches"??? After government raided Social Security funds for years. Despicable. We had a surplus and an opportunity to plan for the retirement of the baby boom generation. But the surplus was better spent enriching the already rich.

I sincerely hope all the retirees who voted for Bush enjoy choosing between working until they drop or starving.

You make it sound like the tactic of buying US Treasury bonds with SS surpluses is something unique to Bush. 😛

And may it never be that people should decide to take a hit for the betterment of their country.

It isn't unique to Bush and my statement says so. But Bush had a surplus to help shore up SS before the baby boomers retired and he decided to give it all away instead.

Fiscal responsibility never was a Bush strong suit.

Do you want the government to change your diapers too? Would it be too much to ask that people privately save on their own?

He may not have plans to save or improve SS (as if many want him to), but it's not like he made the mess.

:roll:

Would it be asking too much to expect that the money that has been taken out of your paychecks for the past 40 years to actually BE THERE when you retire? Get a clue.
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
People have paid Social Security taxes all their working lives. They deserve the benefits they paid for and were promised. SS participation was MANDATORY. Our money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it. We had no choice in the matter.

SS is a TAX removed from our paychecks - and people have paid TAXES all their working lives. TAX money was taken from our paychecks before we could save it and have no choice in the matter. That's what the gov't does - it taxes you and then spends the tax it collects.
Yes, it's unfortunate that people bought into the SS scam but it's unsustainable and needs to be removed from our system.

The system needs to be fixed. Either now or later. I'm for fixing it now but you are free to want to push the scam on our children and our children's children if you wish.

CsG

How are poor people like yourself going to pay for your prescriptions?

 
Anyone in GenX counting on recieving SS better be planning their retirement a little better because it will long since be broke at that point. The only possible way to maintain benefits without raising the tax to 50% will be to eliminate our millitary spending nearly completely and wipe out nearly every federal program in existence today.

Don't count on SS if you are under 40 people.
 
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