Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
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The Eighth Amendment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
The Eighth Amendment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...tics/main3554687.shtml
"There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans," McCain said during a news conference.
And lots of people at the CIA felt that it should be used. What's your point, exactly, other that people have reasonable differences of opinion?
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
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:roll:
Are you patently insane? 'Lots' of other people, amounting to some sadistic fucks from the Imperial Japanese Army circa WW2, and the Khmer Rouge, and the '50s radical ChiComms do something, and suddenly it's not 'unusual' any more? It sure is hell still is inhumane, unnecessary, and pretty much a textbook definition of torture. Thankfully both of our candidates are against continuing this madness, so this is soon to be a moot issue.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
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How is it not unusual? Do we usually waterboard people? Even in terms of criminals, or even just "enemy combatants" or even just terrorists that we've captured, even among these groups, we don't waterboard the majority of them. That alone makes waterboarding "not usually done," therefore a bit unusual, no? And even if you don't think waterboarding is unusual, are you going to claim that it's not cruel? That flies in the face of all logic...
It's a technique limited to certain circumstances and certain individuals. We don't execute every murderer, just those certain individuals under certain circumstances. That doesn't make the death penalty and waterboarding unusual.
It doesn't really matter if its cruel or not; if its not unusual, it can't be both cruel and unusual.
If its so unnecessary, why do so many experts in the CIA favor it, and why has it succeeded at preventing another 911?
Torture is illegal - The US has tried and convicted US soldiers for waterboarding, the US has tried and convicted US citizens for torture, and the US, back in WWII, tried and convicted Japanese soldiers as war criminals for torture and waterboarding. Do you dispute this?
Please explain how weatherboarding magically became legal. A simple link to the appropriate law would be fine. We will all be here waiting for your response.
Why do you believe the CIA? They lie all the time. They lied and said they didn't waterboard. Then they lied and said they only waterboarded one person. Then they lied and said they waterboarded a few. See a pattern here?
Link to proof please? Otherwise you are just spouting BS.
Actually two links please, one for the BS claim that waterboarding prevented another 9/11, and another to show that "many" CIA experts approve of this.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
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The CIA has a long history of problems. Go read up on the family jewels if you haven't already.
Trying to say that the practice waterboarding is responsible for preventing another attack of the scale of 9/11 is ridiculously naive. The fact that we employ waterboarding (and hideous tactics such as rendition), probably increases the risk of attack on US citizens, allies, and interests.
Read the article:
One administration official familiar with the meetings said the CIA made such a convincing case that no one questioned whether the methods were necessary to prevent further terrorist attacks.
The CIA believed then, and now, that the program was useful and helped save lives," said a former senior intelligence official knowledgeable about the events.
"But given the tenor of the times and the belief that more attacks were coming, they felt they had to do what they could to stop the attack."
Quite simple. It was authorized by the President's executive order. Any laws clarifying the legal status of waterboarding were only passed in 2005 or 2006.
Yes I did. So where is the proof? Because the CIA "made a convincing case" doesn't mean jack shit. They could have lied to them, they could be wrong.
Is that the same thing as the "convincing case" that Bush made when he said he knew Saddam has WMD?
So again, link to proof, otherwise it's BS.
Can you read English? It was against the law dating all the way back to 1940. Nothing has changed since then. No new laws were passed.
So you are seriously telling me that the President can ignore the laws of our country? Really? You must have gone to Dick Cheneys high school to believe that.
The reality is that they broke the law, and they know it.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
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So, we have hearsay from an administration official (this administration is not exactly a paragon of virtue or adherence to an honorable America), who says that the 'CIA' (no description of who/how many officials from the CIA attended these meetings), believed that using waterboarding was useful, and then goes on to say that the CIA still believes this.
^^ Pretty clear that they're trying to cover their own asses with whatever they can, but unless you get specific individuals and documents of policy directive on hand, it's just hot air. I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that many CIA analysts and officers don't believe in state-sanctioned torture. Remember, there are an estimated 20,000 employees of the CIA at any given time (payroll, not including various assets probably 10x that number).
Do you think the CIA actively publishes its daily routine? It would be counteractive to its mission.
We do know, at a minimum, that another 911 hasn't happened.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
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lol!
Well, a big fucking asteroid or whatever pulverized the shit out of the dinosaurs sometime back. Since I learned about that, I always carry magnetized rocks in my shoes, so that it doesn't happen again. Because we haven't yet been struck by another gifuckinggantic ball of rock from space, I submit that this tactic is succeeding!
^^ Makes about as much sense as your logical fallacy.
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