Bush a Liberal?

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Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think we have entered an age where the size of govt and the scope of those programs cant be viewed in the simplistic and traditional liberal vs conservative debate.

Bush is a big govt conservative. He is socially conservative and loves to consolidate power via expansion of the fed govt. The author is falling into the trap of labeling all big govt programs and expansion of govt as "liberal" policies. When the simple fact is we have people on the right side of the political debate just as ready to expand govt as on the left side.

The traditional small govt minded classical liberals are hard to find now sadly.

Who are you and what did you do with our Genx87?

I was thinking the same thing. :)
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think we have entered an age where the size of govt and the scope of those programs cant be viewed in the simplistic and traditional liberal vs conservative debate.

Bush is a big govt conservative. He is socially conservative and loves to consolidate power via expansion of the fed govt. The author is falling into the trap of labeling all big govt programs and expansion of govt as "liberal" policies. When the simple fact is we have people on the right side of the political debate just as ready to expand govt as on the left side.

The traditional small govt minded classical liberals are hard to find now sadly.

:thumbsup:

Exactly how I feel, Genx.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think we have entered an age where the size of govt and the scope of those programs cant be viewed in the simplistic and traditional liberal vs conservative debate.

Bush is a big govt conservative. He is socially conservative and loves to consolidate power via expansion of the fed govt. The author is falling into the trap of labeling all big govt programs and expansion of govt as "liberal" policies. When the simple fact is we have people on the right side of the political debate just as ready to expand govt as on the left side.

The traditional small govt minded classical liberals are hard to find now sadly.

That sounds about right. I do wish that we had more politicians in power that desired to make the government more efficient and really put their money where their mouth is. That doesn't necessarily mean smaller all of the time, but there are cases where increasing the efficiency of certain programs will allow for the reduction in their size/cost and possibly even eliminate them and others completely over time if successful.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I am not interested in reinventing the wheel, but I am very interested in refining and optimizing our current wheel. Sometimes this means smaller government. However, most of the time it just means a more efficient government of considerable size but just not too huge.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think we have entered an age where the size of govt and the scope of those programs cant be viewed in the simplistic and traditional liberal vs conservative debate.

Bush is a big govt conservative. He is socially conservative and loves to consolidate power via expansion of the fed govt. The author is falling into the trap of labeling all big govt programs and expansion of govt as "liberal" policies. When the simple fact is we have people on the right side of the political debate just as ready to expand govt as on the left side.

The traditional small govt minded classical liberals are hard to find now sadly.

Who are you and what did you do with our Genx87?

Lets just say the last couple of years has opened my eyes to the failures of my party. In the process has opened my mind to the world not being so black and white. I am not perfect but have tried to take the edge off.

btw I didnt say thanks to you in the other thread. Got home late lastnight, played some WoW, went to bed.

So thanks.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Lets just say the last couple of years has opened my eyes to the failures of my party. In the process has opened my mind to the world not being so black and white. I am not perfect but have tried to take the edge off.

btw I didnt say thanks to you in the other thread. Got home late lastnight, played some WoW, went to bed.

So thanks.

Clearly, a 40 man raid needs to be scheduled to clear the Washington instance. Are you free in November? :laugh:

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think we have entered an age where the size of govt and the scope of those programs cant be viewed in the simplistic and traditional liberal vs conservative debate.

Bush is a big govt conservative. He is socially conservative and loves to consolidate power via expansion of the fed govt. The author is falling into the trap of labeling all big govt programs and expansion of govt as "liberal" policies. When the simple fact is we have people on the right side of the political debate just as ready to expand govt as on the left side.

The traditional small govt minded classical liberals are hard to find now sadly.

Who are you and what did you do with our Genx87?

Lets just say the last couple of years has opened my eyes to the failures of my party. In the process has opened my mind to the world not being so black and white. I am not perfect but have tried to take the edge off.

btw I didnt say thanks to you in the other thread. Got home late lastnight, played some WoW, went to bed.

So thanks.

In an ideal world, we'd all be libertarians without the radical kookiness that they seem to display on some topics.

We'd get to be fiscally conservative and have the govt out of our homes/business without having the rights of others trampled by the majority.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
In an ideal world, we'd all be libertarians without the radical kookiness that they seem to display on some topics.

We'd get to be fiscally conservative and have the govt out of our homes/business without having the rights of others trampled by the majority.

Yup, and this is not an ideal world as we all know. This country tried Libertarianism or at least something that was much closer to it than what we have now a long time ago. What was discovered is that all of the flaws amongst the people (not the government) proved that we as a society (not an isolated individual) are just not responsible enough to handle that kind of power and freedom. The result was tearing each other apart using that freedom and power for our own selfish and greedy desires. The government gradually stepped in and took control of the people who continuously abused such freedoms and power.

While times most certainly have changed, I have no doubt that if we go back to the old ways we would just end up following the same path in a new world. People would get abused in the system. They would gather and demand the abuse to stop. Then a few people would step forth and promise that change. Those people would get elected and granted power through sheer popularity. They would make a bunch of decisions to gain control over the various situations, which is essentially increasing the power and size of the government. Before you know it, we will be right back where we are today in 2008.

No...that is not the answer. People will always be irresponsible. They will always be greedy and selfish and lazy. What we need to do is learn from the past and optimize what we have today. We need to change what we got slowly to make it more efficient. We don't need to wipe it all out and start over. Our country cannot afford to do that anyways. We owe the rest of the world way too much money.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: Genx87
Lets just say the last couple of years has opened my eyes to the failures of my party. In the process has opened my mind to the world not being so black and white. I am not perfect but have tried to take the edge off.

btw I didnt say thanks to you in the other thread. Got home late lastnight, played some WoW, went to bed.

So thanks.
Clearly, a 40 man raid needs to be scheduled to clear the Washington instance. Are you free in November? :laugh:
We'll need several tanks with full bullshit-resist gear.

 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: Genx87
Lets just say the last couple of years has opened my eyes to the failures of my party. In the process has opened my mind to the world not being so black and white. I am not perfect but have tried to take the edge off.

btw I didnt say thanks to you in the other thread. Got home late lastnight, played some WoW, went to bed.

So thanks.
Clearly, a 40 man raid needs to be scheduled to clear the Washington instance. Are you free in November? :laugh:
We'll need several tanks with full bullshit-resist gear.

I'll bring the media-aggro wiping trinket.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
That explains why so many Republicans are disappointed in him and his Presidency.

Too much spending and to many big government programs.

...and if they voted for Kerry back in '04, then with the Rep. control over the house and senate they could have had some deadlock

/oh wait, now some repubs are crying for deadlock now that a democrat steamroller is coming along..

Yeah what a steamroller; after the JFK world tour he's down to about a 3% advantage, after selecting biden he's tied. After the comrade Michelle speach Mccain is starting to show a couple leads...choo choo.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
That explains why so many Republicans are disappointed in him and his Presidency.

Too much spending and to many big government programs.

...and if they voted for Kerry back in '04, then with the Rep. control over the house and senate they could have had some deadlock

/oh wait, now some repubs are crying for deadlock now that a democrat steamroller is coming along..

That last Democratic steamroller lasted all of 2 years (92-94) before giving the GOP full Congressional control, and failed to deliver on its central promise (universal healthcare). We'll see how it works this time around. The GOP is better as a minority party anyway, and is long overdue for some cleansing.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Bush is not a liberal. He is, and I say this seriously, a fascist. Not like Hitler, but like Mussolini, who defined fascism as when "Profit is private and loss is public." He took our government, paid for with our tax dollars, and gave it to his cronies for fat profit under the phony guise of capitalism and free markets. Whenever profit was to be had, it was pocketed, but the slightest loss resulted in a public bail-out. Pretending to call that liberalism (the political ideology of Jefferson et al) just goes to show what sick and twisted lying slimeballs these Republicans are. Apparently they're still not satisfied with their raping of middle America...

Good post....

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."

"Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy."

"The truth is that men are tired of liberty."

"And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace... War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it."

"Let us have a dagger between our teeth, a bomb in our hands, and an infinite scorn in our hearts."

"War is to man what maternity is to a woman. From a philosophical and doctrinal viewpoint, I do not believe in perpetual peace."

"It is humiliating to remain with our hands folded while others write history. It matters little who wins. To make a people great it is necessary to send them to battle even if you have to kick them in the pants. That is what I shall do."

"We become strong, I feel, when we have no friends upon whom to lean, or to look to for moral guidance."

--Benito Mussolini



Learning from both the fascists and the communists who perpetrated atrocities on the Italian people in those days, the Italian people learned to mistrust the govt (something the American people need to do) and decided that the only safe govt was one which did not have enough power or authority to screw over there lives.

When the govt starts taking itself too seriously, they elect a prostitute to their parliament. Americans are weak in self-awareness. Fear is the primal motivating force to control the masses.

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
That explains why so many Republicans are disappointed in him and his Presidency.

Too much spending and to many big government programs.

Yup, and this is the irony of why the left hates him so much. His problem was that he gave in to the liberal bullshit way too many times.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
That explains why so many Republicans are disappointed in him and his Presidency.

Too much spending and to many big government programs.

Yup, and this is the irony of why the left hates him so much. His problem was that he gave in to the liberal bullshit way too many times.

:confused: And here I thought 'the left' was liberal and big government?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
That explains why so many Republicans are disappointed in him and his Presidency.

Too much spending and to many big government programs.

Yup, and this is the irony of why the left hates him so much. His problem was that he gave in to the liberal bullshit way too many times.

As if. This is what happened.