Bus Powered Firewire 800 External HDD Enclosure?

[firefighter4443]

Hello,

I wasnt sure whether this falls under Peripherals, or Memory and Storage, but anyway.

I'm trying to find a 3.5 inch external HDD enclosure that's bus powered through IEEE 1394b. This website: http://www.firewire-1394.com/what-is-firewire-800.htm says Firewire 400 and 800 can provide about 45 watts (1.5 amps at 30 volts), which should be more than enough for a 5400 RPM 3.5 inch drive.

Its hard enough to find good enclosures that offer Firewire 800, but for me, its proven nearly impossible to find a good, bus powered Firewire 800 3.5 inch enclosure.

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks!

eSATA is not possible. I am running a 2010 Macbook Pro i7 w/ 4GB RAM. Right now, it has a 500GB 5400RPM internal HDD, but if I can find the bus powered enclosure I'm looking for, I'd replace the internal with a 60-120 GB SSD. I've got an unused 1TB 3.5" WD Caviar Green (not sure of the specific Model Number) I'd like to put in the bus powered enclosure, if I can find one.

After some more searching, I've found a discontinued enclosure very close to what I'm looking for, but it had an internal IDE connection.
http://www.wiebetech.com/products/ultragbplus.php

I also currently have a LaCie d2 Quadra. It originally came with a 500GB drive, but the 500GB died, so I put a 1TB WD (same one as above) in the enclosure. I love the enclosure, but as far as I know, it requires the AC adaptor. I would try just plugging it into my Mac, but it's back in the States, and I'm currently in Iraq. Anyone know if this enclosure supports bus power through Firewire 800? I'm about to e-mail LaCie support and ask. I'll make sure to post the results.

Forget asking LaCie. I have to register the product, which requires a serial number, which is back in the states...

 

[Old Hippie]

I have never seen/heard of a bus powered 3.5" external enclosure until you posted that link.

This is an industry first, and WiebeTech exclusively sells UltraGB+, the only product with this feature for 3.5" IDE drives

I guess it was the first, only, and last one.

AFAIK, there are no other 3.5" bus powered external HD enclosures.

 

[RebateMonger]

I have never seen/heard of a bus powered 3.5" external enclosure until you posted that link.

Same here.

The likely problems are:

1) Firewire 800 never really made it to Windows because of driver issues, so Firewire 800 enclosures aren't that widely available.

2) Pretty much all Firewire 800 enclosures for 3.5-inch disks also had a USB connection. USB connections could usually not provide enough power to run a 3.5-inch disk, so probably nobody bothered putting in the option for bus-powered connections.

 

[firefighter4443]

So, to summarize so far:

1) The Firewire 400 and 800 standard is capable of powering most 3.5 inch 5400RPM drives. (awesome $$$/GB)
*AND*
2) It never happened, because there is not a large enough market.

EPIC FAIL.

 

[firefighter4443]

So here's my plan then:

Keep looking for a Bus Powered Firewire 800 External HDD Enclosure, because it would be awesome.

And until that awesome device comes along:

I've got a Mid-2010 Macbook Pro i7, GeForce 330M w/ 512MB GDDR5, and a TOSHIBA MK5055GSXF ((http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=StorageSolutions/PCNotebookHardDrives/MKxx55GSXSeries/MKxx55GSXSpecs) 500GB Hard Drive.

I currently use about 360GB's of the space. I rip my DVD's to the computer, and encode them, so when I travel to Iraq for work (like now) I dont have to lug all the DVD's with me. (Netflix downloading and iTunes Streaming are not options, because the internet, while mostly reliable, is slow, and while traveling, forget any probability of a connection)

Therefore, I have a need to store hundreds of GBs of media on portable storage. If I can get the $/GB down low enough, I would like to keep the DVD images as they are, without compression. (from hundreds of GBs to TBs for the same number of movies)

I do not like the idea of lugging around 2 or more external HDDs. However, I do not mind the idea of lugging around One external bus powered HDD, for mass storage. With a 3.5 inch drive, I could get 2TB (soon 3TB), but there's no Bus Power, and when waiting on a flight from Kuwait to Baghdad, the power outlets are few and far between.

Anyway, here's my plan:

1) I'll replace the internal HDD with a decent 60-120GB SSD (preferably less than 2$/GB)
2) I'll put the TOSHIBA MK5055GSXF into an aftermarket 2.5 inch bus powered firewire 800 enclosure.

Got any suggestions for an enclosure? Gotta fit these minimum requirements:
1) Bus Powered through Firewire 800 (no need for anything else, sharing my movies is illegal)
2) SATA II support
3) 9.5mm form factor (12.5mm is ok, but 9.5mm, in an ideal world, would create a smaller, slimmer package)
3) Small (no extra fan or huge protrusions, just a "sleek and slim" enclosure)

Here's one that seems alright, save for the price:
SATA II, up to 12.5mm, FW 800&400, USB 2.0, $64.95
Comes with 9to9 Pin 800, 6to6 pin 400, and USB Cable
http://oyendigital.com/hard-drives/store/CB2-M.html

 

[tweakboy]

It is going to be slow even though its firewire 800. If you want to retain the hard drive speed you need External SATA connection. Much much faster then firewire and as fast as your local hard drive. GL and GB,

 

[firefighter4443]

Two things prevent me from using eSATA:

1) I do not have an eSATA port on my computer
2) eSATA does not currently carry power. Any device connected through eSATA would require an external and independent power supply.

Firewire 800 is perfect for me because:

1) I have a Firewire 800 port built into my computer
2) It supports bus powered devices.
3) I do not need extremely high transfer speeds.

The only program I ever use which needs a lot of bandwith is Time Machine, when I first set it up.

Otherwise, my DVD Rips and Compressed Video files are between 8-9 and 1-2 GBs each. Through Firewire 800 peak speeds, this converts to a transfer time of ~90 seconds and ~20 seconds each, both of which are well within acceptable ranges, and a lot faster than my current USB 2.0 transfers of ~180 seconds and ~40 seconds.

I have no need for extremely fast performace, and am not looking for a connection type that will max out the performance of my HDDs. Just a resonable, if unique, solution for a portable media storage solution which does not require an outside power source.

 

[firefighter4443]

I went with a OWC Mercury On the go Pro-Firewire 800 and USB 2.0 for $65 + $15 shopping. Now I need to order the SSD to go in the MBP.

Suggestions?

Specifications
60GB min
2.5inch SATA
Low Price is more important than performance. (I kinda threw this last requirement out the window when I purchased the 160GB Intel X-25M. I just couldnt convince myself to go smaller, or with a worse controller. Add the fact that it will be the only HDD permanently attached to the computer, I just had to get the 160GB. I dont want to cripple the computer when the external is not present.)

I use my computer for WoW, DVD Ripping, encoding, playback, internet surfing, and other normal tasks. I have no need for the top of the line SSD. Just a good one.

Budget is pretty much unlimited for ONE drive, but lets call it $200.

 

[Dark Shroud]

You're not going to beat this drive.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231377

If you don't mind spending more then this is good through a lot more for only 20gigs.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231398

If you don't mind the rebate then Intel won't be as fast but still a top notch drive.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167023

 

[wpcoe]

2) eSATA does not currently carry power. Any device connected through eSATA would require an external and independent power supply.

Interesting. I thought eSATA did power a device.

No wonder I couldn't get my shiny new 3.5" eSATA external drive enclosure to work. I had to use the USB (2.0) cable to get the drive to work. When I bought it I asked specifically if I needed an external power supply for eSATA, since there is a connector on the rear of the drive, and was told no. There is no power cable included with my drive enclosure, either.

Okay, I just did a Google search, and granted Wikipedia is not necessarily the best resource, especially for technical facts, but they have a page for SATA which includes info about "eSATAp" (powered) vs "eSATA" (unpowered):

Does anybody know if that's accurate? My mobo back panel, the drive enclosure and its included cable sure look like the connector on the left.

 

[CurseTheSky]

eSATAp is a real thing. I have it on my Envy 14, and it works flawlessly to power my 2.5" 7200 RPM hard drive. It's fairly rare and very hard to find enclosures and cables for, though. Geeks.com sells one from time to time.

I've seen some standard eSATA ports that look similar to an eSATAp port. The best way to tell is to take a standard USB 2.0 device and try (GENTLY) plugging it into the slot. eSATAp combines eSATA (for data) + USB 2.0 (for power), but can accept any of the three (USB 2.0, eSATA, or eSATAp). So, if the USB 2.0 device works fine and is detected by Windows, you have an eSATAp port.

 

[firefighter4443]

Thanks for the suggestions on the SSD's, I'll let you know what I finally go with.

Also, thanks for the eSATA data. I've heard of USB 2.0/eSATA ports, but I had no idea they provided power over eSATA. Good to know.

 

[firefighter4443]

Anything wrong with this one? Its 100GB for $199

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231362

 

[corkyg]

I have an eSATAp port on my new notebook - Lenovo T510. That will work only on a 2.5" external. My 3.5-in Vantec NexStars still require their own power source. Lenovo's term for that port is "Combo USB/eSATA."

 

[RebateMonger]

I have an eSATAp port on my new notebook - Lenovo T510. That will work only on a 2.5" external. My 3.5-in Vantec NexStars still require their own power source. Lenovo's term for that port is "Combo USB/eSATA."

The specifications for a WD 500 GB 3.5-inch disk include 450mA at 12V and 650mA at 5V.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=301&language=en

A comparable WD's 2.5-inch disk requires 500mA at 5V.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=506&language=en

A USB 2.0 cable doesn't carry a 12V signal and the current for a single USB connector is limited to 500mA at 5V. Maybe a eSATAp connection has a 12V line and can deliver more than 500mA?


Wikipedia.org about eSATAp on MacBook:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp

"Expresscard

An Expresscard is for mobile computer users. Notebook users or 17" MacBook Pro users may use expresscard to get eSATAp functionality. eSATAp on notebook can only be used to self power up 2.5" HDD/SSD (5v). Larger devices like 3.5" or 5.25" devices may require a separate power supply."


Wikipedia.org on SATA (including eSATAp):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATA#eSATA

"eSATAp

1 cable solution. An eSATAp HDD enclosure from Delock.eSATAp is also known as Power over eSATA or eSATA/USB Combo. eSATAp port combines the strength of both eSATA (high speed) and USB (compatibility) into a single port. eSATAp devices are now capable of being self powered. On a desktop workstation, eSATAp port can supply 12 V to power up a 3.5" hard disk drive (HDD) or a 5.25" DVD-RW without needing separate power source as compared to eSATA and USB 2. On a notebook eSATAp port can supply 5 V to power up a 2.5" HDD/SSD as compared to eSATA. Many notebooks are now equipped with this combo port. A list of notebooks with this new port is available here [3["

 

[corkyg]

Thanks, Rebate Monger for the specifics. I keep my two laptops backed up to 2 Vantec externals (WDC 3.5-in HDDs). Shown here is the T510 with the eSATAp port connected to the Vantec. The T60 uses the eSATA Express card connection. Both do the job at about the same speed. All drives are 320GB. Complete clone job takes 9 minutes in either directio9n.

And this is a closeup of the eSATAp port along with a pair of USB ports and a Firewire data port. (Note that Lenovo marks it as eSATA+USB symbol.)

 

[firefighter4443]

Well, I could probably set up a combo thing. Here's what I'm thinking:

1) go with what I've got planned,

 

[Dark Shroud]

Anything wrong with this one? Its 100GB for $199

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231362

That's a better deal than the 80gig. If the 60gig version isn't big enough for you & you don't mind the price than no nothing should be wrong with it. Just be aware that the 100gig doesn't appear to have a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter.

 

[firefighter4443]

I decided to go the extra mile, and went with a 160GB Intel X-25M.

After reading anandtech.com's review on all things you should know about SSD's from the ground up, it seemed like a simple choice to go for Intel. And I really didn't want to have to struggle with what to put on the SSD and what not to.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167024

I'll let you know how awesome it is when I get it though! Just gotta wait the 4-6 weeks for APO shipping to Iraq.

 

[wpcoe]

I've seen some standard eSATA ports that look similar to an eSATAp port. The best way to tell is to take a standard USB 2.0 device and try (GENTLY) plugging it into the slot. eSATAp combines eSATA (for data) + USB 2.0 (for power), but can accept any of the three (USB 2.0, eSATA, or eSATAp). So, if the USB 2.0 device works fine and is detected by Windows, you have an eSATAp port.

I tried to insert a USB 2.0 cable, and it doesn't fit.

If all eSATAp ports accept a USB 2.0 cable, then there would have been no need for them to put a separate USB port on the unit, either. So that, along with that DC/IN port, convinces me now that I have a non-powered eSATA port.

Here's a pic of my enclosure's ports:

 

[corkyg]

Yes, that is a pure eSATA port, not the eSATAp.

"If all eSATAp ports accept a USB 2.0 cable, then there would have been no need for them to put a separate USB port on the unit, either."

Not necessarily. In addition, there are other USB devices that may be required at the same time, such as a mouse, an external keyboard, a thumb drive, etc., etc. My T510 has 3 USB 2 ports and the one eSATAp. All are used.

 

[firefighter4443]

How do you delete a post?

 

[firefighter4443]

Yes, that is a pure eSATA port, not the eSATAp.

"If all eSATAp ports accept a USB 2.0 cable, then there would have been no need for them to put a separate USB port on the unit, either."

Not necessarily. In addition, there are other USB devices that may be required at the same time, such as a mouse, an external keyboard, a thumb drive, etc., etc. My T510 has 3 USB 2 ports and the one eSATAp. All are used.

I didnt know you could use an external HDD's extra ports as a USB hub. The keyboard, mouse, HDD and thumb drive all communicate with the computer through the eSATAp cable?

 

[firefighter4443]

So I've found what could be a good solution, but it still does not give me a 3.5 inch drive in a bus powered enclosure

The Lacie Little Big Disk: http://www.lacie.com/download/manual/lbd_quadra_en.pdf

It supports RAID 0 and 1 built off of two 2.5 inch drives, bus powered over Firewire 800 or 400. USB 2.0 and eSATA both require the power brick.

RAID 0 would be perfect for me. This portable external storage would be used primarily for on the go movie watching and stuff. There would be a backup of all the information at my residence. If one drive failed, I'd purchase a replacement, stick it in, rebuild the RAID 0 array off the backup when I get a chance, and go without the portable movie and media.

Cool. To bad I already ordered the OWC Mercury On the Go Pro. I do happen to have a spare 120GB 2.5 inch looking for an enclosure though...

 

[corkyg]

I didnt know you could use an external HDD's extra ports as a USB hub. The keyboard, mouse, HDD and thumb drive all communicate with the computer through the eSATAp cable?

I don't think you understand. All 4 ports can be used at the same time - not talking about a HDD hub - am referring to the 4 separate ports on the T510 - one of which is the eSATAp.