Burn a koran, go to jail for 70 days.. UK!

[FallenHero]

We have the freedom to say anything as long as we are not spreading hate or in sighting violence. America has a similar system but only for in sighting violence.

I've no idea why america is so pro-hate speech.

Because freedom of speech is the very concept of protecting the very speech that you hate so very much. Otherwise it is just lip service and not truly free.

 

[HAL9000]

Because freedom of speech is the very concept of protecting the very speech that you hate so very much. Otherwise it is just lip service and not truly free.

Hate speech isn't speech worth protecting.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Hate speech isn't speech worth protecting.

You don't get it. I'm sure a couple hundred years ago, your King and parliament thought the colonists were hating on them too. Were they right?

 

[HAL9000]

You don't get it. I'm sure a couple hundred years ago, your King and parliament thought the colonists were hating on them too. Were they right?

You are asking me what people thought a couple of hundred years ago? And to comment on whether they were right?

 

[FallenHero]

Hate speech isn't speech worth protecting.

"Jews aren't worth protecting."
"Blacks aren't worth protecting."
"Speech against liberals isn't worth protecting."
"Speech against conservatives isn't worth protecting."

 

[HAL9000]

"Jews aren't worth protecting."
"Blacks aren't worth protecting."
"Speech against liberals isn't worth protecting."
"Speech against conservatives isn't worth protecting."

You're just saying things now then?

 

[FallenHero]

You're just saying things now then?

It's the same line of thought that you have.

 

[HAL9000]

It's the same line of thought that you have.

Is it? It doesn't seem to be from here.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You are asking me what people thought a couple of hundred years ago? And to comment on whether they were right?

You're missing my point, and I really wish I could say it was a simple misunderstanding and not something else.

The point that you're missing is regarding who defines what constitutes things like "hate" speech. For example, read up on the Nazi book burnings. The logic for those was to burn literature deemed "un-German" and the books represented "decadent and corrupt" ideas. So in other words, Hitler probably would've said those books were exercising a form of hate speech. Do you think Hitler's judgment was right on that point?

Unpopular ideas, throughout history, have eventually sparked revolutionary changes in thought or society. The most prominent examples were the church vs. scientists in the high Middle Ages/early Renaissance. "The sun is in the center of the solar system with earth revolving around it" was considered heretical and by definition, that would be considered hate speech against God. Was the church right?

At the end of the day, people need to quit being babies and learn to ignore ignorant people whose views they don't agree with. I'll leave you with this:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.​

​

 

[0roo0roo]

Just another taste of the weirdness of the uk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3C8J2YQneQ
Young voters question time, they stack the panel with two far leftists who don't respect legitimate debate and reasoning. It is the equivalent if we had the same show and stacked it with right wing talk show hosts...

 

[HAL9000]

You're missing my point, and I really wish I could say it was a simple misunderstanding and not something else.

The point that you're missing is regarding who defines what constitutes things like "hate" speech. For example, read up on the Nazi book burnings. The logic for those was to burn literature deemed "un-German" and the books represented "decadent and corrupt" ideas. So in other words, Hitler probably would've said those books were exercising a form of hate speech. Do you think Hitler's judgment was right on that point?

Unpopular ideas, throughout history, have eventually sparked revolutionary changes in thought or society. The most prominent examples were the church vs. scientists in the high Middle Ages/early Renaissance. "The sun is in the center of the solar system with earth revolving around it" was considered heretical and by definition, that would be considered hate speech against God. Was the church right?

At the end of the day, people need to quit being babies and learn to ignore ignorant people whose views they don't agree with. I'll leave you with this:

Some people can't be ignored, it needs to be stopped before it spreads. The church were wrong. There is a difference between saying "I think the church is wrong, and here is a counter argument" and "Christians are cunts" Hitler was wrong as well.

Morality is defined for a democratic society by the majority, that's what we do.

 

[Robsasman]

Let me explain: you do NOT have freedom of speech. Being allowed to talk doesn't mean you have freedom of speech. Being allowed to say things that are unpopular, offensive, or speak your opinion on any matter IS freedom of speech. You restrict people from expressing their opinion.

Didn't Arizona pass a law stopping WBC from protesting those funerals awhile ago.

 

[FallenHero]

Some people can't be ignored, it needs to be stopped before it spreads. The church were wrong. There is a difference between saying "I think the church is wrong, and here is a counter argument" and "Christians are cunts" Hitler was wrong as well.

Morality is defined for a democratic society by the majority, that's what we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

 

[FallenHero]

Didn't Arizona pass a law stopping WBC from protesting those funerals awhile ago.

I believe those laws were overturned by the court system. I could be mistaken though, as they could currently be making their way through the courts.

 

[HAL9000]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Yup. That's what some people call utilitarianism.

 

[FallenHero]

Yup. That's what some people call utilitarianism.

And you are ok with that?

 

[HAL9000]

And you are ok with that?

I'm OK with it as long as the majority consider the needs of the minority. Yep. I'm fine with it, it's the nature of democracy.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Some people can't be ignored, it needs to be stopped before it spreads.

Excellent, comrade. Please take these individuals to the "re-education" camp.

The church were wrong. There is a difference between saying "I think the church is wrong, and here is a counter argument" and "Christians are cunts" Hitler was wrong as well.

So if little Jimmy calls little Jane and her family "Poopheads," does that constitute hate speech as well?

Morality is defined for a democratic society by the majority, that's what we do.

Well, Hitler became ruler of Germany through a legal process in Germany, being appointed by a democratically elected leader (Hindenburg). So that makes his book burnings OK? After all, he was apparently exercising the will of the "majority," right?

 

[HAL9000]

Excellent, comrade. Please take these individuals to the "re-education" camp.

OK

So if little Jimmy calls little Jane and her family "Poopheads," does that constitute hate speech as well?

No it does not.


Well, Hitler became ruler of Germany through a legal process in Germany, being appointed by a democratically elected leader (Hindenburg). So that makes his book burnings OK? After all, he was apparently exercising the will of the "majority," right?

That's true, but based on my morality, and the morality of the UK (as I understand it) he was wrong.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That's true, but based on my morality, and the morality of the UK (as I understand it) he was wrong.

And based on Hitler's "morality," the UK was wrong.

 

[HAL9000]

And based on Hitler's "morality," the UK was wrong.

True. Morality is subjective. Based on different peoples moral principles different things are considered right or wrong.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

True. Morality is subjective. Based on different peoples moral principles different things are considered right or wrong.

And I'd like to be the one to make my own decision on what is right or wrong rather than the government, thank you very much.

 

[HAL9000]

And I'd like to be the one to make my own decision on what is right or wrong rather than the government, thank you very much.

OK? Well over here we like to make those decisions then turn them into law as and when needed.

 

[davmat787]

You don't get it. I'm sure a couple hundred years ago, your King and parliament thought the colonists were hating on them too. Were they right?

You are asking me what people thought a couple of hundred years ago? And to comment on whether they were right?

UK English to US English translation of HAL9000's comment: "Excellent point IndyColtsFan, I now realize I don't understand free speech!"

 

[HAL9000]

UK English to US English translation: "Excellent point IndyColtsFan, I now realize I don't understand free speech!"

That's a very poor translation, although you got the word "realize" right for the American audience.