Building on website vs. shopping at dealer

[Juddog]

For those of you in the know - is it better to build the vehicle on the manufacturer's website and have it shipped to the dealership, or purchase at the dealership directly based upon their current stock?

I was shopping around for Mazda 3's, and if I build a vehicle on the website it's about $1,500 to $2,500 cheaper than what the dealership is offering. I am told though that if I build it on the website I would have to wait as much as 6 months for the car to be shipped to the dealership after it was made.

So is it better to wait and have the car shipped there directly for less money? Will the dealership still offer the same financing that they would otherwise (for example 1.9 % APR)?

 

[BassBomb]

Website is normally MSRP, dealers may have their own markups

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Its usually chepaer to buy from dealer stock as they offer discounts. On the web you pay MSRP - any rebates.

If your dealer is charging a mark-up find another dealer or proceed to haggle with them. Only a fool would pay the additional dealer mark-up on a non-limited production car.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
Its usually chepaer to buy from dealer stock as they offer discounts. On the web you pay MSRP - any rebates.

If your dealer is charging a mark-up find another dealer or proceed to haggle with them. Only a fool would pay the additional dealer mark-up on a non-limited production car.

Yeah that's the part that confused me - I would have thought the dealer would be below MSRP, not above. Basically the same car built on the website has $2k added onto the price at the dealership, and this is supposedly with discounts. :roll:

 

[vi edit]

Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: vi edit
Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

Well this dealership supposedly had a discount for the company I work for. When their rep was visiting our cafeteria she said they could offer the car at about $1,000 above dealer invoice.

Examples:
I found the following listed on consumerguideauto for the "i Sport 4-door sedan".
MSRP Dealer Invoice Destination Charge
$13,995 $13,115 $650

If I build it direct on the manufacturer website, price is listed as $14,645 which includes destination charge - so that's perfectly in-line with the other consumerguideauto prices listed above. If I go through search inventory through the manufacturer website, and then go to that dealership, they have the exact same car listed as $16,425 MSRP with all of the exact same features. Yet if I go to the dealership's site itself, which is a separate site but lists the same inventory that links in through the manufacturer website, the MSRP for the same exact car is $18,145!

So basically the dealership is jacking up the cost by literally $4,000, and they list it as MSRP. They're also being all shady when I try and ask for a direct price through e-mail that's $600 over dealer invoice + destination charge, instead wanting me to come in and what-not. I would think they would take advantage of the instant sale at a slight loss to profit.

ARgh car shopping is so confusing!

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: vi edit
Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

Well this dealership supposedly had a discount for the company I work for. When their rep was visiting our cafeteria she said they could offer the car at about $1,000 above dealer invoice.

Examples:
I found the following listed on consumerguideauto for the "i Sport 4-door sedan".
MSRP Dealer Invoice Destination Charge
$13,995 $13,115 $650

If I build it direct on the manufacturer website, price is listed as $14,645 which includes destination charge - so that's perfectly in-line with the other consumerguideauto prices listed above. If I go through search inventory through the manufacturer website, and then go to that dealership, they have the exact same car listed as $16,425 MSRP with all of the exact same features. Yet if I go to the dealership's site itself, which is a separate site but lists the same inventory that links in through the manufacturer website, the MSRP for the same exact car is $18,145!

So basically the dealership is jacking up the cost by literally $4,000, and they list it as MSRP. They're also being all shady when I try and ask for a direct price through e-mail that's $600 over dealer invoice + destination charge, instead wanting me to come in and what-not. I would think they would take advantage of the instant sale at a slight loss to profit.

ARgh car shopping is so confusing!

It has extra options that are listed on the sticker, you just didn't see them. I have never seen a sticker that didn't match the price when built online. I have seen seperate stickers next to the factory one that lists an dealer accessories added.

 

[fbrdphreak]

$1000 above invoice? On a Mazda 3? That's not exactly a steal....

 

[ElFenix]

$1,000 above dealer invoice isn't a discount.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
$1,000 above dealer invoice isn't a discount.

What is considered a discount, $600 over dealer invoice? Their rep told me the lowest I could possibly get, on some models only, was around $600 - $700 over dealer invoice. This is for the Mazda3 (not mazdaspeed 3).

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: vi edit
Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

Well this dealership supposedly had a discount for the company I work for. When their rep was visiting our cafeteria she said they could offer the car at about $1,000 above dealer invoice.

Examples:
I found the following listed on consumerguideauto for the "i Sport 4-door sedan".
MSRP Dealer Invoice Destination Charge
$13,995 $13,115 $650

If I build it direct on the manufacturer website, price is listed as $14,645 which includes destination charge - so that's perfectly in-line with the other consumerguideauto prices listed above. If I go through search inventory through the manufacturer website, and then go to that dealership, they have the exact same car listed as $16,425 MSRP with all of the exact same features. Yet if I go to the dealership's site itself, which is a separate site but lists the same inventory that links in through the manufacturer website, the MSRP for the same exact car is $18,145!

So basically the dealership is jacking up the cost by literally $4,000, and they list it as MSRP. They're also being all shady when I try and ask for a direct price through e-mail that's $600 over dealer invoice + destination charge, instead wanting me to come in and what-not. I would think they would take advantage of the instant sale at a slight loss to profit.

ARgh car shopping is so confusing!

It has extra options that are listed on the sticker, you just didn't see them. I have never seen a sticker that didn't match the price when built online. I have seen seperate stickers next to the factory one that lists an dealer accessories added.

I added every possible accessory you can add, including moonroof and beefed up stereo system and it still doesn't come close to matching their MSRP on their the dealer's separate website.

 

[JDMnAR1]

You are forgetting the 'dealer installed options' like undercoating and scotchguard on the fabric. Some dealers load up these 'extras' on every vehicle that hits their lot as a way to make a few extra bucks from people who won't shop around for vehicles without them.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
You are forgetting the 'dealer installed options' like undercoating and scotchguard on the fabric. Some dealers load up these 'extras' on every vehicle that hits their lot as a way to make a few extra bucks from people who won't shop around for vehicles without them.

That doesn't show on the factory sticker that I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot of factory stickers.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: vi edit
Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

Well this dealership supposedly had a discount for the company I work for. When their rep was visiting our cafeteria she said they could offer the car at about $1,000 above dealer invoice.

Examples:
I found the following listed on consumerguideauto for the "i Sport 4-door sedan".
MSRP Dealer Invoice Destination Charge
$13,995 $13,115 $650

If I build it direct on the manufacturer website, price is listed as $14,645 which includes destination charge - so that's perfectly in-line with the other consumerguideauto prices listed above. If I go through search inventory through the manufacturer website, and then go to that dealership, they have the exact same car listed as $16,425 MSRP with all of the exact same features. Yet if I go to the dealership's site itself, which is a separate site but lists the same inventory that links in through the manufacturer website, the MSRP for the same exact car is $18,145!

So basically the dealership is jacking up the cost by literally $4,000, and they list it as MSRP. They're also being all shady when I try and ask for a direct price through e-mail that's $600 over dealer invoice + destination charge, instead wanting me to come in and what-not. I would think they would take advantage of the instant sale at a slight loss to profit.

ARgh car shopping is so confusing!

It has extra options that are listed on the sticker, you just didn't see them. I have never seen a sticker that didn't match the price when built online. I have seen seperate stickers next to the factory one that lists an dealer accessories added.

I added every possible accessory you can add, including moonroof and beefed up stereo system and it still doesn't come close to matching their MSRP on their the dealer's separate website.

Huh?

Apparently I have just bent the laws of the Internet, then.

MAZDA3 i Sport 4-Door $14,895

Destination $650

ABS/SAB/SAC PACKAGE$395
AIR CONDITIONING - CFC FREE$880
CD CHANGER W/ MP3, IN-DASH 6-DISC$500
FOG LIGHTS$300
REAR WING SPOILER$375
SIRIUS SATELLITE RADIO$430

Total MSRP:$18,425*

 

[JDMnAR1]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
You are forgetting the 'dealer installed options' like undercoating and scotchguard on the fabric. Some dealers load up these 'extras' on every vehicle that hits their lot as a way to make a few extra bucks from people who won't shop around for vehicles without them.

That doesn't show on the factory sticker that I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot of factory stickers.

No, it doesn't, but could very easily be included on the 'sticker' at the dealer's site.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
You are forgetting the 'dealer installed options' like undercoating and scotchguard on the fabric. Some dealers load up these 'extras' on every vehicle that hits their lot as a way to make a few extra bucks from people who won't shop around for vehicles without them.

That doesn't show on the factory sticker that I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot of factory stickers.

No, it doesn't, but could very easily be included on the 'sticker' at the dealer's site.

He said he went to the dealer. I guess that could mean physically or went to their site.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
You are forgetting the 'dealer installed options' like undercoating and scotchguard on the fabric. Some dealers load up these 'extras' on every vehicle that hits their lot as a way to make a few extra bucks from people who won't shop around for vehicles without them.

That doesn't show on the factory sticker that I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot of factory stickers.

No, it doesn't, but could very easily be included on the 'sticker' at the dealer's site.

He said he went to the dealer. I guess that could mean physically or went to their site.

I was referring to their web site.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: vi edit
Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

Well this dealership supposedly had a discount for the company I work for. When their rep was visiting our cafeteria she said they could offer the car at about $1,000 above dealer invoice.

Examples:
I found the following listed on consumerguideauto for the "i Sport 4-door sedan".
MSRP Dealer Invoice Destination Charge
$13,995 $13,115 $650

If I build it direct on the manufacturer website, price is listed as $14,645 which includes destination charge - so that's perfectly in-line with the other consumerguideauto prices listed above. If I go through search inventory through the manufacturer website, and then go to that dealership, they have the exact same car listed as $16,425 MSRP with all of the exact same features. Yet if I go to the dealership's site itself, which is a separate site but lists the same inventory that links in through the manufacturer website, the MSRP for the same exact car is $18,145!

So basically the dealership is jacking up the cost by literally $4,000, and they list it as MSRP. They're also being all shady when I try and ask for a direct price through e-mail that's $600 over dealer invoice + destination charge, instead wanting me to come in and what-not. I would think they would take advantage of the instant sale at a slight loss to profit.

ARgh car shopping is so confusing!

It has extra options that are listed on the sticker, you just didn't see them. I have never seen a sticker that didn't match the price when built online. I have seen seperate stickers next to the factory one that lists an dealer accessories added.

I added every possible accessory you can add, including moonroof and beefed up stereo system and it still doesn't come close to matching their MSRP on their the dealer's separate website.

Huh?

Apparently I have just bent the laws of the Internet, then.

MAZDA3 i Sport 4-Door $14,895

Destination $650

ABS/SAB/SAC PACKAGE$395
AIR CONDITIONING - CFC FREE$880
CD CHANGER W/ MP3, IN-DASH 6-DISC$500
FOG LIGHTS$300
REAR WING SPOILER$375
SIRIUS SATELLITE RADIO$430

Total MSRP:$18,425*

Ok I rescind what I said about MSRP not adding up then. I guess you can load on the car and not display much of which packages you put on there until you go in and see for yourself. Their website is rather vague on the upgrades.

 

[vi edit]

Yeh, I wouldn't trust the dealer website. Lots of bad info there. They either fail to list trim levels or not include options in the web listing.

With Mazda you can do a vehicle search on the website and pull up the actual window sticker for each car in the dealer inventory that will itemize out each option/accessory included from the factory.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: vi edit
Call a different dealer. There's no magic behind car prices. When you "build" online you are shown MSRP of the base model + plus all options. They will also tack on a delivery fee and you will be responsible for all additional taxes and paperwork.

The price they show you online should be the same exact price that is on the window sticker of the car. The only way that it would be less online is if they are including any available rebates in the price.

One of the following is happening:

1) You are not doing an exact comparison between models/trim/options
2) The online one is factoring in rebates and not including destination & TTL
3) The dealer is tossing in TTL on top of the MSRP and not factoring in rebates

I still think you need to call a different dealer or three and get some more quotes. Car sales are in the crapper right now. Any dealer that is marking up beyond MSRP is pure sleaze.

Well this dealership supposedly had a discount for the company I work for. When their rep was visiting our cafeteria she said they could offer the car at about $1,000 above dealer invoice.

Examples:
I found the following listed on consumerguideauto for the "i Sport 4-door sedan".
MSRP Dealer Invoice Destination Charge
$13,995 $13,115 $650

If I build it direct on the manufacturer website, price is listed as $14,645 which includes destination charge - so that's perfectly in-line with the other consumerguideauto prices listed above. If I go through search inventory through the manufacturer website, and then go to that dealership, they have the exact same car listed as $16,425 MSRP with all of the exact same features. Yet if I go to the dealership's site itself, which is a separate site but lists the same inventory that links in through the manufacturer website, the MSRP for the same exact car is $18,145!

So basically the dealership is jacking up the cost by literally $4,000, and they list it as MSRP. They're also being all shady when I try and ask for a direct price through e-mail that's $600 over dealer invoice + destination charge, instead wanting me to come in and what-not. I would think they would take advantage of the instant sale at a slight loss to profit.

ARgh car shopping is so confusing!

It has extra options that are listed on the sticker, you just didn't see them. I have never seen a sticker that didn't match the price when built online. I have seen seperate stickers next to the factory one that lists an dealer accessories added.

I added every possible accessory you can add, including moonroof and beefed up stereo system and it still doesn't come close to matching their MSRP on their the dealer's separate website.

Huh?

Apparently I have just bent the laws of the Internet, then.

MAZDA3 i Sport 4-Door $14,895

Destination $650

ABS/SAB/SAC PACKAGE$395
AIR CONDITIONING - CFC FREE$880
CD CHANGER W/ MP3, IN-DASH 6-DISC$500
FOG LIGHTS$300
REAR WING SPOILER$375
SIRIUS SATELLITE RADIO$430

Total MSRP:$18,425*

Ok I rescind what I said about MSRP not adding up then. I guess you can load on the car and not display much of which packages you put on there until you go in and see for yourself. Their website is rather vague on the upgrades.

My posts were all assuming you actually went to the lot, which you should be doing. Dealer websites are usually useless when it comes to options.

 

[vi edit]

Also - for the price of that decked out 'iSport", price out what an "S" trim will run you. They will include many of those options and may not require you special ordering.

 

[Juddog]

So what is considered a "good deal" as far as dealer invoice +X amount of cash? Meaning if you straight up offered the dealer invoice + options +$600, is it feasible for them to take it or will they say no way?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Juddog
So what is considered a "good deal" as far as dealer invoice +X amount of cash? Meaning if you straight up offered the dealer invoice + options +$600, is it feasible for them to take it or will they say no way?

Me personally...I try and shoot for invoice + 2%. In the case of 17,000 invoice, that's around $340 over. People can walk out for less, but I refuse to sit around and dicker over a hundred bucks or so. It's not worth my time, and I take no enjoyment in it.

I'd simply email out or call around to a handful of dealers and say "I want X car with XYZ options, the Mazda special financing, what's your best offer?"

If the lowest one comes in close to that 2% mark it's a deal. If it doesn't, I take the lowest offer and make a few calls to see how willing they are to game.

The last couple cars I bought, I spent more time going through the paperwork in the finance office than I did hammering out a price.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Juddog
So what is considered a "good deal" as far as dealer invoice +X amount of cash? Meaning if you straight up offered the dealer invoice + options +$600, is it feasible for them to take it or will they say no way?

Me personally...I try and shoot for invoice + 2%. In the case of 17,000 invoice, that's around $340 over. People can walk out for less, but I refuse to sit around and dicker over a hundred bucks or so. It's not worth my time, and I take no enjoyment in it.

I'd simply email out or call around to a handful of dealers and say "I want X car with XYZ options, the Mazda special financing, what's your best offer?"

If the lowest one comes in close to that 2% mark it's a deal. If it doesn't, I take the lowest offer and make a few calls to see how willing they are to game.

The last couple cars I bought, I spent more time going through the paperwork in the finance office than I did hammering out a price.

Nice. Teach me more, sensei. Last time I bought a new car I got ripped, because basically I didn't know what I was doing, to be honest. I found out later that I could have gotten it for about $3k cheaper. So this time I'm trying to research as much as possible before buying a new one.

 

[BassBomb]

My dad used a website which basically goes out and finds which dealer will give you the cheapest price for the options you want, and will help make the purchase happen.

We bought a Lexus ES350 with the first package for the price of no package