Building new system for someone else

[PrinceofWands]

For general use systems or gaming I'm pretty much fine on my own, but this is a specialty system in an area I don't know so I thought I'd beg a little advice.

The person wants a work computer to do sound editing. They DJ, and do a variety of other sound/music related work. The system might also do minor graphics or video editing, but it would be very low-end in this respect. Another factor for them is noise...they want the system quiet.

They have no parts to reuse (other than speakers), and are hoping to come in under $1400 including a monitor (preferably something in the 19-22" range).

The system would be shipped to, and assembled/used in the NW USA.

ATI is banned here (personal issues). Vista is likewise not going to be used ever. I'm leaning towards Intel love at the moment, but for a good reason I'd build AMD again.

No overclocking. I have 1-2 weeks to shop for parts.




**cliffs**
System for sound editing
Should run as quiet as possible
$1400 soft cap

 

[DSF]

The Antec SOLO is a case with very good noise-reduction features, and it's carrying a $50 rebate right now at Newegg.

 

[Blain]

The noise reduction features of the SOLO are mainly for sales promotion.
I've got one and it all boils down to the fans used.
The case is a bit too snug for my tastes. The external dimensions are similar to other cases. But with the support bar spanning the inside, it gets tight. The wide HD bays make things snug also.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Ok, so I've been doing research all over and think i've got most of it nailed down. I'm still not sure on motherboard, case, or power supply.

I know i'm gonna do an e8400, and i'll handle sound with a xonar d2x. I'll pick up an 8800gt, just because they're so cheap right now. Drives are covered also. I'll probably want to stick with DDR2 just because of price, unless there's a compelling need for DDR3 that someone can explain to me.

Given that, any motherboard recs?

Seems like the solo is getting mixed reviews from people, so is there a better sound dampening case out there, and if so is there a quietish power supply to match that can keep this system stable?

Oh, and any good monitor deals out there right now for this system?

Yet another last minute thought - is there any benefit or difference between 2 2GB sticks, and 4 1GB sticks when it comes to ram? In reality I'd only need 3GBs, since it will never run Vista, only XP...then again he might mess around with Linux some day.

 

[DSF]

The E8400 is a good choice. Picking up a quiet heatsink might not be a bad idea. I've heard people say the stock Intel cooler is quiet, and I've heard some people say it isn't. You're on the right track with DDR2 - there's no benefit to be had right now from DDR3. Your best bet is probably 2x2GB. If you ever feel the need to expand in that area you'll have slots open that way. You'll want to look at the P35 chipset for your motherboard. It's nice and stable, and you really don't need to pay for any of the extras of an X38/48 board.

What features do you need in the motherboard? You can get a very solid P35 motherboard for less than $100 like the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L or Abit IP35-E unless you need higher-end features like the following:
-Native firewire support
-More than 4 SATA ports
-eSATA support
-Integrated WiFi
-Multiple PCI-express x16 slots

As far as graphics, it doesn't sound like he even needs an 8800GT. If this isn't used for any kind of gaming or 3d graphics work you could save $100 or so and get something like an 8600GT.

 

[chronox]

Just as a precaution: the GA-P35-DS3L board has a DPC latency issue that is currently being worked on by Gigabyte via BIOS updates (thread here).

I have this board myself and have been very happy with it. I actually saw the thread above by chance as I have not been seriously afflicted by the DPC latency. I don't even know 100% if the occasional "skips" when listening to .mp3s can be attributed to this issue.

Edit: Since you mentioned audio work: in serious cases, DPC latency can lead to audio signal loss, which is why I thought you'd might like to know about this issue that is being resolved.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: DSF
The E8400 is a good choice. Picking up a quiet heatsink might not be a bad idea. I've heard people say the stock Intel cooler is quiet, and I've heard some people say it isn't. You're on the right track with DDR2 - there's no benefit to be had right now from DDR3. Your best bet is probably 2x2GB. If you ever feel the need to expand in that area you'll have slots open that way. You'll want to look at the P35 chipset for your motherboard. It's nice and stable, and you really don't need to pay for any of the extras of an X38/48 board.

What features do you need in the motherboard? You can get a very solid P35 motherboard for less than $100 like the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L or Abit IP35-E unless you need higher-end features like the following:
-Native firewire support
-More than 4 SATA ports
-eSATA support
-Integrated WiFi
-Multiple PCI-express x16 slots

As far as graphics, it doesn't sound like he even needs an 8800GT. If this isn't used for any kind of gaming or 3d graphics work you could save $100 or so and get something like an 8600GT.

Already budgeted $50 towards a new cpu fan system, just in case the stock is too noisy. I figured I'd get it up and running and give a listen before spending the money up front.

With the 8800gt being 130 right now at newegg, wouldn't you say it's worth the extra $50 over an 8600gt...just for system resale if nothing else? Providing I'm not hitting a wall on price that is.

He won't need too much on the board I'm thinking...sound is covered already, can always add a wireless nic, and I don't imagine he'd be going dual video cards. That being said there is a lot of benefit to having good external options, especially with a guy that does a lot of music, so it would probably be beneficial to keep options open with regards to firewire, esata, etc...wouldn't you think?

I don't know this, I'm just trying to logic it out. I'd certainly like to avoid the $225 cost of something like a P5E if I don't need it, but at the same time if there's performance gains, or if it seems like future expansion or resale would be greatly enhanced by spending the extra $100 on a motherboard, then I'm all for it.

As it sits right now I'm $980 out of a $1400 soft cap, with only the motherboard, case, and power supply left to decide on. Assuming case/ps price around $200, that still leaves me $220 on the motherboard. Mind you, that may all change depending on recommendations and available deals.

 

[DarkRogue]

If you can, the P180/P182 is a very good case for sound dampening (3 layer walls with different materials.)
If you won't overclock, I'd suggest the Scythe Ninja Plus for the CPU heatsink and the Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 for the VGA heatsink as both of them can be run passively, and thus, zero noise.

A quite PSU like those made by Seasonic or Corsair will be off on its own, and the built in fan can also double as cooling for 1-2 hard drives in the lower bay of the P180/182 reducing the need for yet another fan. Really, all you need is one exhaust fan with that case, and if you want to go the extra mile, pick up some sound dampening material and spread it around inside your case. I don't think that's quite necessary though. SilentPCReview would help you out with quieting your PC after you're done picking out parts here, search them up for the P182 intake mod to increase airflow, and they also have recommendations to seal up certain other vents to reduce noise and direct airflow.

E8400 and 8800GT are good, although I question the need for the latter since it won't be used very much. As far as sound goes, that's up to you, my own audiophilic friend usually prefers the more pro-soundcard offerings by M-audio and E-MU.

Motherboard, others have covered. I like the Gigabyte ones, but as mentioned, there is currently a known DPC latency issue with them and Gigabyte is working on a BIOS fix. Some boards have it worse than others; I have zero problems even though I am spiking to moderate levels. Others have stuttering because it's spiking extremely high.

There shouldn't be any drawbacks to using 2or 4GB of RAM, but with DDR2 as cheap as it is, why not pick up 4GB just in case?

Hard drive you should pay special attention to. It's one of the loudest and most difficult to quiet parts of the system, and my friend constantly complains about it. I don't have many suggestions here as HD noise wasn't an issue for me, but it can affect audio recording.

 

[PrinceofWands]

DarkRogue...thanks for putting me on to the M-Audio products. He originally wasn't planning on doing the recording on the system, just the editing work, but after showing him the product line he was all over it. Even raised my spending limit a bit to cover it.

Ok, so I've found everything I 'think' I'll use...except the motherboard. It turns out the firewire is a fairly big deal for him, as some of his stuff uses it. So I need firewire support. Otherwise I just to support the hardware listed below, and I need it to be stable. I noticed that neither of the suggested boards have firewire support, so they're out.

Case ? P182
Power Supply ? Corsair CMPSU-650tx
Fans ? 2 Nexus D12SL-12
Heatsinks ? Arctic Cooling Accelero S1
Thermalright Ultra-120
CPU ? Intel Wolfdale E8400
RAM ? G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 1000
Video ? EVGA 512mb 8600gt
Sound ? M-Audio Delta 1010LT or Audiophile 192 - up to him
DVD ? Samsung SH-S203N DVD w/LightScribe x2
HDD ? WD Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB
Wireless NIC - ??? probably any
Monitor ? Acer AL2216wbd
Motherboard - ???

 

[DSF]

The higher-tier models of the two suggestions would have firewire support. Those would be the IP35-Pro and the Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P. There should be some good offerings from ASUS that would fit the bill as well. I would stick with the P35 chipset.

You really don't need a 650W power supply for that setup. With the relatively weak graphics card (8600GT) a 450W power supply would be more than enough, even if you added several hard drives. Corsair's 450VX is a good unit if you want to stick with that company. Also, I would consider going with the WD Caviar 640GB. It's just over $100 and offers better performance and twice the capacity of the one you've picked out.

 

[DarkRogue]

Glad that suggestion helped you out, PrinceofWands. As DSF mentioned, the Gigabyte EP35-DS3P does come with Firewire and is the one I'm using atm, and was largely the reason I bought it too, because my old 3rd generation iPod still uses firewire. However, as I mentioned before, Gigabyte currently has a known DPC latency issue with most, if not all of their boards, but their engineers are working on a BIOS fix. If it's serious audio editing, I would have to reluctantly advise against the Gigabyte board until this issue gets resolved.

I second DSF's PSU suggestion, 650w is overkill for such a system, anything over 500w is really only needed for dual-video card setups. 380-450w should cover you nicely, so grab that Corsair 450 or a Seasonic 430.

I'm not entirely sure on the HD recommendation though, while it is fast and big, I haven't seen anything about its noise yet. I'll have to take a look at that since many people are recommending them now.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: DarkRogue
I'm not entirely sure on the HD recommendation though, while it is fast and big, I haven't seen anything about its noise yet. I'll have to take a look at that since many people are recommending them now.

I don't personally own one, but I've heard they're fairly low-noise.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Case P182
Power Supply Corsair CMPSU-450vx
Fans 2 Nexus D12SL-12
Heatsinks Arctic Cooling Accelero S1, Thermalright Ultra-120
Motherboard Abit IP35 Pro
CPU Intel Wolfdale E8400 BX80570E8400
RAM G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 1000
Video EVGA 512-p2-n756-tr 8600gt
Sound M-Audio Audiophile 192
DVD 2 Samsung SH-S203N DVD w/LightScribe
HDD WD Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
Wireless Linksys wmp54g
Monitor Acer AL2216wbd

So that looks like the final build. Total price: $1210.85 (and $55 in rebates)

 

[Modelworks]

The only change I might would make would be to change the sound card to something that has better professional connectors or even better a breakout box.
Its a bit more , but I think its well worth it:
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-MII-FW410-LIST

 

[DarkRogue]

Well, I couldn't really find any reviews about the WD6400AAKS regarding noise but some forum posts on the SPCR forums seem to indicate the drive is fairly quiet. There's quieter, but it is about as quiet as you can get with such a fast drive.

The parts look good from here, I'm assuming you'll be removing all 3 Antec Tri-cools that come with the P182 as they are incredibly loud even at low. I would suggest sealing up the top vent with some tape or something, put a Nexus on the back exhaust, and the other one wherever you feel you need it most. Try as few fans as possible first though, every additional fan increases the noise. (IIRC the formula was something like +3dB for every fan running at the same specs on top of the loudest fan's initial dBA rating.)

I question having 2 DVD drives, but I understand they have their uses. I don't know what to look for in an LCD so I'll leave that alone, you could ask about it over in Video Cards and Graphics for more information about that, but it looks like you've decided already.

As far as a better soundcard is concerned, my friend seems to be hunting for the elusive E-MU 1212M - I don't know why, but audiophiles must think alike, lol. If a breakout box is important to your friend, he should look into those options as well, although I think the best setups are generally where you buy each part separately to get the best of every world (at the expense of cash in wallet.)

Are you going to be trying to run that TRU passively?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: DarkRogue
Well, I couldn't really find any reviews about the WD6400AAKS regarding noise but some forum posts on the SPCR forums seem to indicate the drive is fairly quiet. There's quieter, but it is about as quiet as you can get with such a fast drive.

The parts look good from here, I'm assuming you'll be removing all 3 Antec Tri-cools that come with the P182 as they are incredibly loud even at low. I would suggest sealing up the top vent with some tape or something, put a Nexus on the back exhaust, and the other one wherever you feel you need it most. Try as few fans as possible first though, every additional fan increases the noise. (IIRC the formula was something like +3dB for every fan running at the same specs on top of the loudest fan's initial dBA rating.)

I question having 2 DVD drives, but I understand they have their uses. I don't know what to look for in an LCD so I'll leave that alone, you could ask about it over in Video Cards and Graphics for more information about that, but it looks like you've decided already.

As far as a better soundcard is concerned, my friend seems to be hunting for the elusive E-MU 1212M - I don't know why, but audiophiles must think alike, lol. If a breakout box is important to your friend, he should look into those options as well, although I think the best setups are generally where you buy each part separately to get the best of every world (at the expense of cash in wallet.)

Are you going to be trying to run that TRU passively?

The place I got the P182 from changes the stock fans with Nexus fans. I had them put one in the back and one in the front. Should equalize well and move the air very well. Depending on how the cpu aligns with the flow of the fans I may try to run the ultra passively, at least as a test. If it doesn't look good I'll probably pull the Nexus out of the front and put move it to the front edge of the heatsink (providing it aligns that way). If not, well, I'll figure something out.

The top vent area is actually going to serve a purpose in future upgrades. If he wants a breakout box with additional audio adapters I told him I can mount it on the top rear of the case.

I don't ever build a system with only 1 drive. Granted, it doesn't have to be two that nice, but I HATE not being able to copy directly and since the prices are so low, why not. He actually talked about possibly having even more and finding a way to burn to multiple drives at once since LS takes so bloody long. I convinced him to stay at 2 until he's sure how everything is going to work.

The LCD was a 'cheapest option that will work'. Because of the spending cap of $1400 I had to cut corners in some places if I wanted to get paid for building it. As it is I'll barely be making my requisite $15/hr on the job.

The choice of the M-audio was purposeful for three reasons: 1. I couldn't find a 1212 from a vendor I trusted. 2. He preferred the interface on the M-audio products. 3. If he decides he needs more audio options (pc surround, or recording) he can get the Revolution 7.1, and any of the Delta products and have it all mesh together.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input and help.

 

[DarkRogue]

It sounds like you've got all your bases covered - good luck.

On another note, regarding the P182, running your system passively requires good airflow through the case. The reason I suggested sealing up that top vent (at least until you get around to installing a breakout box, which will effectively also cover it anyway) is that you want the air being pulled from the front of the case to the rear to cool everything you have (including that Accelero.) With the top vent open, air may tend to take that "shortcut" through the case from the top vent and straight out the back exhaust, and your system won't get much air unless you use the intake fan to force air into your case (which means more noise since you're utilizing more fans.) It may be a non-issue if you've planned and accounted for this, but I just thought I'd bring ti up, passive cooling depends heavily on the efficiency of surrounding case airflow.

As far as the heatsink on the CPU is concerned, the P182 was designed so that the exhaust fan will serve as a part CPU cooler as well, so it's perfectly aligned with the CPU for me, My Scythe Ninja sits almost next to it and I have it set up in a push-pull configuration with an undervolted CPU fan and the case exhaust fan.

 

[nineball9]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Case P182
Power Supply Corsair CMPSU-450vx
Fans 2 Nexus D12SL-12
Heatsinks Arctic Cooling Accelero S1, Thermalright Ultra-120
Motherboard Abit IP35 Pro
CPU Intel Wolfdale E8400 BX80570E8400
RAM G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 1000
Video EVGA 512-p2-n756-tr 8600gt
Sound M-Audio Audiophile 192
DVD 2 Samsung SH-S203N DVD w/LightScribe
HDD WD Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
Wireless Linksys wmp54g
Monitor Acer AL2216wbd

So that looks like the final build. Total price: $1210.85 (and $55 in rebates)

Any budget for an operating system and sound editing software?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: nineball9

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Case P182
Power Supply Corsair CMPSU-450vx
Fans 2 Nexus D12SL-12
Heatsinks Arctic Cooling Accelero S1, Thermalright Ultra-120
Motherboard Abit IP35 Pro
CPU Intel Wolfdale E8400 BX80570E8400
RAM G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 1000
Video EVGA 512-p2-n756-tr 8600gt
Sound M-Audio Audiophile 192
DVD 2 Samsung SH-S203N DVD w/LightScribe
HDD WD Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
Wireless Linksys wmp54g
Monitor Acer AL2216wbd

So that looks like the final build. Total price: $1210.85 (and $55 in rebates)

Any budget for an operating system and sound editing software?

No, he already has that himself. I just do hardware. When I build for others I just install Ubuntu (for desktops) or FreeBSD (for servers), unless they ask me to leave it blank or give me another OS to install (provided it's not Vista...that's not allowed in my work or home).