Building new PC - I read too much and I'm confused... please help

[Daru2707]

Hi everyone, it won't be a typical "please help build my PC" thread. I read so many topics about hardware, so many GPU tests, gazillions of different opinions that my eyes finally popped out. I'm going to give you all the details about my case ( so forgive me the length of this, I'm really in serious need of help ) :

I wanted to build a gaming PC ( without monitor, without any peripherals, just the guts and case ) for around 700$ ( note - my native currency is different, so it's an estimate, but pretty accurate ). Ended up putting some more money into it ( around 730$ ) to get this ( I'm just going to list the most important components ) :

- CPU i5 3470
- Motherboard MSI B75A-G43
- GPU HD7850 1GB

I decided to buy the whole thing on hire purchase, so I said to myself - why not get something slightly better - it won't hurt too much when buying that way. So I built a setup with OC capability ( for around 810$ ) :

- CPU i5 2500K
- Motherboard Asrock p67 Pro3
- GPU HD7850 2GB

The important thing is that my screen's native resolution is 1600x900, so I won't be playing in FullHD - so according to tests a HD7850 would suit me well to max pretty much all games. But then AGAIN, I thought that with hire purchase I might add even more cash and go for a HD7950. That's because I thought it might be a bit future-proof, since it has 3GB Vram and a 384-bit bus, which apparently matters a lot ( well I'm a noob at this, just heard that it's important ).

But then I thought that I'm an idiot and I can't afford everything I want. So my direct question to you comes in parts :

1) Is it really possible to tell how long is a GPU ( well, combined with CPU ) going to perform well and max out games?

2) If so - is a HD7950 worth the cash and "safe" for the future?

3) Is a HD7850 a good choice given the fact that I'm going to play ( at most ) at 1600x900, but probably lower res ?

4) Is it really worth getting an i5-2500K - I mean, is getting a CPU with OC capability that much of a possible upgrade considering future years? ( NOTE : I don't plan to change my pc anytime soon )

5) Or is it a gambling business all the time? I mean, I just read that HD8xxx series is coming out early 2013. I also read that DirectX 12 is going to land probably around the time those new cards are released, and that PS4 and new Xbox are probably going to arrive in a year or so.

This is where I can't deal with it anymore. Should I buy an i5+HD7850, or go crazy on the budget with i5+HD7950, or just wait for 8xxx series, or even next gen? Is anything really future-proof? Are today's graphic cards going to be able to run with DirectX 12?

I know that's a lot and those questions might be retorical, but I also believe that there are certain "good" times to buy a new pc, and that people with far better knowledge than mine are able to predict those times. Sorry for lots of text, I wanted you to know everything

Please give me some advice !

 

[frozentundra123456]

Hi everyone, it won't be a typical "please help build my PC" thread. I read so many topics about hardware, so many GPU tests, gazillions of different opinions that my eyes finally popped out. I'm going to give you all the details about my case ( so forgive me the length of this, I'm really in serious need of help ) :

I wanted to build a gaming PC ( without monitor, without any peripherals, just the guts and case ) for around 700$ ( note - my native currency is different, so it's an estimate, but pretty accurate ). Ended up putting some more money into it ( around 730$ ) to get this ( I'm just going to list the most important components ) :

- CPU i5 3470
- Motherboard MSI B75A-G43
- GPU HD7850 1GB

I decided to buy the whole thing on hire purchase, so I said to myself - why not get something slightly better - it won't hurt too much when buying that way. So I built a setup with OC capability ( for around 810$ ) :

- CPU i5 2500K
- Motherboard Asrock p67 Pro3
- GPU HD7850 2GB

The important thing is that my screen's native resolution is 1600x900, so I won't be playing in FullHD - so according to tests a HD7850 would suit me well to max pretty much all games. But then AGAIN, I thought that with hire purchase I might add even more cash and go for a HD7950. That's because I thought it might be a bit future-proof, since it has 3GB Vram and a 384-bit bus, which apparently matters a lot ( well I'm a noob at this, just heard that it's important ).

But then I thought that I'm an idiot and I can't afford everything I want. So my direct question to you comes in parts :

1) Is it really possible to tell how long is a GPU ( well, combined with CPU ) going to perform well and max out games?

2) If so - is a HD7950 worth the cash and "safe" for the future?

3) Is a HD7850 a good choice given the fact that I'm going to play ( at most ) at 1600x900, but probably lower res ?

4) Is it really worth getting an i5-2500K - I mean, is getting a CPU with OC capability that much of a possible upgrade considering future years? ( NOTE : I don't plan to change my pc anytime soon )

5) Or is it a gambling business all the time? I mean, I just read that HD8xxx series is coming out early 2013. I also read that DirectX 12 is going to land probably around the time those new cards are released, and that PS4 and new Xbox are probably going to arrive in a year or so.

This is where I can't deal with it anymore. Should I buy an i5+HD7850, or go crazy on the budget with i5+HD7950, or just wait for 8xxx series, or even next gen? Is anything really future-proof? Are today's graphic cards going to be able to run with DirectX 12?

I know that's a lot and those questions might be retorical, but I also believe that there are certain "good" times to buy a new pc, and that people with far better knowledge than mine are able to predict those times. Sorry for lots of text, I wanted you to know everything

Please give me some advice !

Obviously, it is impossible to accurately predict how long any component will last. I am not sure what the "for hire" part means. Did you buy the parts and hire someone esle to assemble them?

In any case, I would go with the i5 and HD 7850, especially at your relatively low resolution. The money you would spend to upgrade to a HD7950 I would think would be better spent to upgrade to a nice 1080p IPS monitor. If you are dissatisfied with the HD7850 in a year or two you could upgrade to a stronger card. There will be a new generation of cards out by then anyway.

 

[mfenn]

I am not sure what the "for hire" part means. Did you buy the parts and hire someone esle to assemble them?

Yeah I was wondering about that as well.

OP, to answer your questions:

1. Nope. Anybody who tells you that they can is either a liar or an idiot.

2. We don't have enough information to give good advice. What are the prices of the 7850 2GB, 7870 2GB, 7950 3GB, GTX 660, and GTX 660 Ti where you live?

3. You won't be as likely to run into VRAM issues at that resolution. Obviously more shader power is better, but it really comes down to the relative pricing on the cards (see above).

4. Not in my opinion, especially if it forces you to get an old chipset like the P67. Z77 too expensive where you are?

5. Yes, there is always a certain element of chance. You will always get something better and cheaper by waiting. It all comes down to how much value you assign to your gaming time between now and X. where X the release date of <insert shiny new hardware here>. Side note, I don't expect new consoles to have as much of an impact as they have in the past because they are both essentially PC architecture this time around.

 

[Daru2707]

Obviously, it is impossible to accurately predict how long any component will last. I am not sure what the "for hire" part means. Did you buy the parts and hire someone esle to assemble them?

In any case, I would go with the i5 and HD 7850, especially at your relatively low resolution. The money you would spend to upgrade to a HD7950 I would think would be better spent to upgrade to a nice 1080p IPS monitor. If you are dissatisfied with the HD7850 in a year or two you could upgrade to a stronger card. There will be a new generation of cards out by then anyway.

I'm leaning towards 7850 as well at the moment, also considering a 7870 since I've heard that after overclocking it can equal a HD7950 or better

Yeah I was wondering about that as well.

2. We don't have enough information to give good advice. What are the prices of the 7850 2GB, 7870 2GB, 7950 3GB, GTX 660, and GTX 660 Ti where you live?

4. Not in my opinion, especially if it forces you to get an old chipset like the P67. Z77 too expensive where you are?

Well :

2) In my country ( Poland ) :
- HD7850 2GB is around 240$
- HD7870 2GB is 280-330$
- HD7950 is 390-400$
- GTX660 is generally around 280$, or a few $ cheaper
- GTX660 Ti is around 370$

4) You mean it's not really worth it overall or not worth it with older motherboards? The Z77 vary in prices dramatically, the most expensive ones reach around 450$ or more, the least expensive ones equal Asrock P67 Pro3 in price ( which is around 100$ ). Though people often recommend an Asrock Z77 Extreme 4 ( dunno if they're right about it ) , which is around 158$ here ( a bit too much for me at the moment, considering that I want to put as much as I can into GPU ).


And to answer that question which both of you asked - I just google - translated that phrase "hire purchase", because I didn't know how it's really called :$. I meant that I don't want to pay the whole price at once, but pay small portions of it every month for 12 months or so.

Just watched CryEngine 3 tech demo by the way, it's mindblowing... I wonder if current GPU's will be able to handle it

 

[mfenn]

2) In my country ( Poland ) :
- HD7850 2GB is around 240$
- HD7870 2GB is 280-330$
- HD7950 is 390-400$
- GTX660 is generally around 280$, or a few $ cheaper
- GTX660 Ti is around 370$

At those prices, the 7870 or GTX 660 are the best value. Buy whichever you can get for cheaper.

4) You mean it's not really worth it overall or not worth it with older motherboards? The Z77 vary in prices dramatically, the most expensive ones reach around 450$ or more, the least expensive ones equal Asrock P67 Pro3 in price ( which is around 100$ ). Though people often recommend an Asrock Z77 Extreme 4 ( dunno if they're right about it ) , which is around 158$ here ( a bit too much for me at the moment, considering that I want to put as much as I can into GPU ).

I was assuming that you were being forced to go with P67 because you couldn't afford a Z77. There is definitely no reason to get a P67 board if you can get a Z77 for the same price. That being said, I don't think the extra ~$70 for an overclocking capable rig is worth it considering your overall budget.

And to answer that question which both of you asked - I just google - translated that phrase "hire purchase", because I didn't know how it's really called :$. I meant that I don't want to pay the whole price at once, but pay small portions of it every month for 12 months or so.

Ah OK. That's called financing. Essentially you are taking out a loan to buy the parts. I wouldn't recommend that unless the interest rate is 0%.

 

[Daru2707]

I was assuming that you were being forced to go with P67 because you couldn't afford a Z77. There is definitely no reason to get a P67 board if you can get a Z77 for the same price. That being said, I don't think the extra ~$70 for an overclocking capable rig is worth it considering your overall budget.

Actually the interest rate is 1% at the shop I want to buy from. So I decided to go for this way of payment and therefore increase the budget up to around 990$ ( that's because I want to pay like 300$ initially to get lower monthly payments and there won't be that much of a difference between a 800$ rig or 9xx$ one ). And to say more about this motherboard issue I need to show you the components that I'm 100% sure of :

- i5 2500K
- 8 GB ram ( leaning towards goodram ddr3 1333 CL9 )
- HDD : Seagate Barracuda 500 GB
- PSU : Thermaltake Smart 530 W
- DVD : Asus DRW-24B5ST

This all together is around 460$.

Which leaves 530$ to buy a motherboard+GPU+case. The thing is I heard a LOT of people recommending Asrock p67 pro3 for an i5-2500K, justifying it by claiming that a Sandy Bridge doesn't need anything better, and this one is well equipped. They also don't recommend getting any z77 motherboard below ~160$ ( z77 Extreme4 being 158$ for example ). So is getting a cheaper z77 for around 100$ worth it? I heard they are worse equipped and that there are problems with drivers etc...

Z77 motherboards that are around the price of p67 pro3 in my country are those for example :

- Asrock Z77 Pro3
- MSI Z77MA-G43/G45
- Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H

Also I found a Gigabyte 7950 for 365$ which makes me think about it again

But if I wanted it I would have to go with p67 pro3 or one of the cheaper z77 motherboards, which don't get good recommendations, at least in my country ( please correct me if I'm wrong ). With a more expensive z77 like Asrock z77 Extreme 4 - I would have to choose HD7870.

What do you think about those cheaper z77's that I listed? Are they worth getting?

....Or I might listen to your advice and get an i5-3470 without OC'ing. It should last a while too right?

 

[bononos]

You could check the benchmarks btwn the 7950/7850- the link is on the front page of AT, to see if the difference in price/performance makes sense to you. I would think that a z68 board would be cheap enough instead of having to get a p67 but it all depends on availability in your place I guess.

 

[mfenn]

Actually the interest rate is 1% at the shop I want to buy from. So I decided to go for this way of payment and therefore increase the budget up to around 990$ ( that's because I want to pay like 300$ initially to get lower monthly payments and there won't be that much of a difference between a 800$ rig or 9xx$ one ).

This is not a board gear towards financial advice, but my personal opnion is that if you can't afford to pay cash for a low dollar item like a computer, then you can't afford to buy one.

- 8 GB ram ( leaning towards goodram ddr3 1333 CL9 ).

Never heard of them. Could be decent, could be utter crap.

- PSU : Thermaltake Smart 530 W

This is definitely crap. What PSU choices do you have available?

Which leaves 530$ to buy a motherboard+GPU+case. The thing is I heard a LOT of people recommending Asrock p67 pro3 for an i5-2500K, justifying it by claiming that a Sandy Bridge doesn't need anything better, and this one is well equipped. They also don't recommend getting any z77 motherboard below ~160$ ( z77 Extreme4 being 158$ for example ). So is getting a cheaper z77 for around 100$ worth it? I heard they are worse equipped and that there are problems with drivers etc...

Just because a lot of people are saying something doesn't mean that they are right. In this case, they are most certainly wrong. The fact that they cite drivers as an issue proves that they don't know what they're talking about. P67 and Z77 use the exact same drivers.

Somebody who "doesn't recommend getting a Z77 motherboard below $160" is just trying to up sell you. There is no reason that I can think of to pay the same amount of money for an old P67 as you would for a new Z77 Pro3.
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[Daru2707]

You could check the benchmarks btwn the 7950/7850- the link is on the front page of AT, to see if the difference in price/performance makes sense to you. I would think that a z68 board would be cheap enough instead of having to get a p67 but it all depends on availability in your place I guess.

I checked them - I think the difference is quite a lot actually, keeping in mind that apparently there's a lot of OC potential for the 7950

This is not a board gear towards financial advice, but my personal opnion is that if you can't afford to pay cash for a low dollar item like a computer, then you can't afford to buy one.

What PSU choices do you have available?

Just because a lot of people are saying something doesn't mean that they are right. In this case, they are most certainly wrong. The fact that they cite drivers as an issue proves that they don't know what they're talking about. P67 and Z77 use the exact same drivers.

Somebody who "doesn't recommend getting a Z77 motherboard below $160" is just trying to up sell you. There is no reason that I can think of to pay the same amount of money for an old P67 as you would for a new Z77 Pro3.

Actually a bit of cash came in, so I think I'll go for the more expensive build without going bankrupt ^^

And I think I'll get the Z77 Pro3 board then. About the PSU - would an OCZ ZS 550W or a XFX Core 550 W be allright?

 

[mfenn]

The XFX Core 550W is a very good PSU, it will do well for you.

 

[Daru2707]

Thanks a lot and sorry for replying so late, I'm having some connection issues lately

Also I've got a final question here, and it's a tough one I guess because I haven't found an appropriate answer to this, and I've searched a LOT. Trouble is that when people ask about this they tend to present this issue as a minor one, thus they usually don't get an answer :

So :

assuming such a set :

- CPU i5 2500K
- Motherboard Asrock z77 pro3
- GPU HD7950/HD7870
- 4 gb of ram
- DVD asus DRW-24B5ST
- PSU XFX Core 550W
- HDD Seagate Barracuda 3,5" 500GB

what power consumption should I expect monthly considering the worst possible scenario = playing a few hours a day ( let's say around 4 during the week, and more during weekends ) ?

After a few years spent on a laptop I stopped worrying about that, but now I'm really curious. Please share your thoughts

 

[mfenn]

Assuming that you have the system loaded an average of 6 hours per day and mostly idle for the rest, you will see an average daily power usage of (353W * 6 hours + 70W * 18 hours) / = 3.338 kWH. Thats about 101 kWH per month.

 

[Daru2707]

That's totally acceptable, I'm glad !

Thanks a lot for all your advice, I'm going to order soon

 

[Ketchup]

What OS are you running? If 64-bit, 8 GB of RAM will give you a nice increase in performance on the cheap.

Also, good choice on PSU. My 80+ runs much cooler than my last one did.

 

[Daru2707]

What OS are you running? If 64-bit, 8 GB of RAM will give you a nice increase in performance on the cheap.

Also, good choice on PSU. My 80+ runs much cooler than my last one did.

Yep I'm going to use Windows 7 64-bit. I'll get that additional 4 gb of ram then, thanks for the tip