Building Gaming Rig...What AMD Proc Should I Buy?

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: OcHungry

Originally posted by: Maethor
You are planning on a new rig from scratch I would say go conroe. You can get a conroe that performs at fx62 level for 316$ and for less you can get something that outperforms all but the best x2's I figure for a full rig with video card if buying half decent quality you can get the entire thing for about 1100 if watching for deals not counting the monitor.

My figure included the video card and Ram

there is no conroe for $153, and a good video card will take care of gaming.
Also on Intel's side, there are not many reasonably priced motherboards w/ all the gaming and overclocking amenities; and there are not too many options available (not to mention price gouging). A good 570 AM2 board will cost ~ $120 and you are good to go till K8L. sAM2 will support K8L which is >40% faster than conroe(according to consensus).
AMD will show off K8L by this year end and conroe bubble will burst. So why buy conroe when less than a year you can upgrade your AM2 mobo to K8L cpu. IMO conroe is a waste of money, unless you are a diehard Intel user who upgrades every 6 months.

That's if he wants to build again in a year when K8L hits. The backwards compatibility of K8L with the AM2 sockets out right now may be limited by the mobo (HTT Bus, etc.).

Honestly, the difference is really in the chip / mobo - a decent Conroe Mobo - the Biostar TForce 965 Deluxe goes for about $135 and hits some pretty respectable Overclocks. Then you have Conroe - and even for an E6600, you won't spend more than $350. So you're really looking at a $200 price difference overall. The question is - is it worth it to you to spend that?

Now, if you're looking to Overclock, you need to consider the headroom on each chip. I think Conroe wins that battle. As far as the GPU bottlenecks, I don't know much about that, but I do think that the newer multithreaded games that we'll be seeing in the next year will mix things up a bit.

Anyone who is looking to build is probably better off sitting tight until K8L, but for those who can't wait, you really have to think about what you need.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: GamingDaemon


Ok, as the OP, help me out keysplayr2003. I am building a new rig around a eVGA 7900GT KO and a ViewSonic 1600x1200. Given those items, I am trying to keep my costs down and am looking for the best bang for the buck that will last me playing games for the next year or two.

That's why I am looking at the AMD X2 4200+ for < $200 from monarchcomputers.com. Does this make sense to you?

Also, what mobo would you reccomend? Memory?

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

That X2 4200 from Monarch for under 200 is great considering that yesterday, you couldn't touch an X2 3800 for under 250.00. However, for about the same money (@ 200.00) The Core 2 Duo model E6300 is a more powerful processor. NUMEROUS online reviews show the E6300 performing mostly in between X2 4400 and X2 4600 CPU's, and on some occasions, even approaches AMD's flagship FX62 (above X2 5000+) performance.

Believe me when I say, that I am not knocking AMD A64 CPU's here. Not in the slightest. They are fine chips as they have demonstrated for the past few years. But now, there is something that performs faster clock per clock, uses less power, highly overclockable (if that's your thing) but not necessary to do so.

Ok, for your mobo. That Gigabyte DS3 965 I linked to seems really nice and got some good raves over at Xtreme Systems. This is the same board that they have dropped that Quad Core Kentsfield chip into and it performed beautifully. It's going for 149.00 at newegg. You may find it cheaper if you shop around.

For the memory, check Gigabytes website for a compatability list for memory tested with that mobo. That is your best bet to purchase memory that is known to work fine with that board.

CPU: Conroe E6300 or E6400. Whichever one you can do.

Here is my logic, but forgive me as I am still on my first cup of coffee this morning:

For gaming purposes, and the video card you posess currently, you will not notice a difference in gaming performance between the AM2 system or the Core 2 Duo system at least until superior GPU's arrive, (Septemberish). Even in gaming due to GPU bottleneck, but evidently superior and rivaling or surpassing higher end AMD CPU's in ALL other aspects of computing. Now that you are armed with this knowledge, knowing that I am not here to steer you wrong, why would you settle for less at around the same price tag?

Gaming:

AMD = Conroe when GPU limited (Your case with single 7900GT)
AMD << Conroe for everything else. And I mean everything.
AMD < Conroe by about 50 to 60 dollars. But that 50 to 60 dollars give you performance of AMD systems that would be 100 to 200 dollars more.

Conclusion: Buy the Conroe system.

 

[GamingDaemon]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Gaming:

AMD = Conroe when GPU limited (Your case with single 7900GT)
AMD << Conroe for everything else. And I mean everything.
AMD < Conroe by about 50 to 60 dollars. But that 50 to 60 dollars give you performance of AMD systems that would be 100 to 200 dollars more.

Conclusion: Buy the Conroe system.

I think you meant AMD = Conroe when not GPU limited, correct?

Ok, I wanted to get your unbiased opinion without muddying it with a time factor. I need to build this rig this week (so my wife can have her own PC...remember make wife happy).

Given the time factor, I am forced to go the AMD route, but realize that I will most likely be building again in 2007 or 2008...which I just have to accept.

Given that, which AMD 939 mobo would you choose? And which DDR memory?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: GamingDaemon

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Gaming:

AMD = Conroe when GPU limited (Your case with single 7900GT)
AMD << Conroe for everything else. And I mean everything.
AMD < Conroe by about 50 to 60 dollars. But that 50 to 60 dollars give you performance of AMD systems that would be 100 to 200 dollars more.

Conclusion: Buy the Conroe system.

I think you meant AMD = Conroe when not GPU limited, correct?

AMD = Conroe when it IS GPU limited. Once the GPU limitation is removed, Conroe walks away.

Ok, I wanted to get your unbiased opinion without muddying it with a time factor. I need to build this rig this week (so my wife can have her own PC...remember make wife happy).

Given the time factor, I am forced to go the AMD route, but realize that I will most likely be building again in 2007 or 2008...which I just have to accept.

Given that, which AMD 939 mobo would you choose? And which DDR memory?

Ah, it's too bad you are rushed into a decision like that. Why does your wife "need" the PC ASAP? Hope you don't mind me asking. And what about the husband being happy knowing he bought the smartest he could? Anyway, ASUS A8N is a nice Nforce 4 board. ASUS is my fav. And a X2 3800 would be nice if your wife needs Dual core for any reason. Get some DDR 400. Again, check out memory compatability with the motherboard manufacturer.

 

[imported_inspire]

I just wanted to add to what I alluded to earlier. I got to thinking about it. I know kentsfield is coming and conroe is here. But, when you really think about all the stuff AMD has in the oven, I'd say 'just wait for K8L' or 'if you have to upgrade, just get something that can hold you until K8L'

And I think I can say that because I'm in the same situation. I'd like to start building a new box in the next few weeks. But when I think of all the shinies that are within 12 month's reach, it makes me sad because I don't build or upgrade very often.

I'm not even talking about 4x4 - I think that's really just a quick fix, and maybe it will lay some benchmarking pavement for how AMD's quad core implementation will stack up to Intel's. What I am talking about is the K8L, the AM3 socket, the Torrenza platform, DX10 gfx cards, and HTX slots (that link coprocessors directly to the HTT bus 0_0) - if all these come at the same time, we can expect a lot of things to change - especially graphics bottlenecks (not that they'll go away, but they'll definitely open up considerably). I think AMD's recent acquisition of ATi was strategic, and I think that in a year or so, you'll see DX10 cards that fit into such an HTX slot from ATi.

I would hazard that the next 12 months will be some of the fastest the consumer-level computing industry has seen.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: inspire
I just wanted to add to what I alluded to earlier. I got to thinking about it. I know kentsfield is coming and conroe is here. But, when you really think about all the stuff AMD has in the oven, I'd say 'just wait for K8L' or 'if you have to upgrade, just get something that can hold you until K8L'

And I think I can say that because I'm in the same situation. I'd like to start building a new box in the next few weeks. But when I think of all the shinies that are within 12 month's reach, it makes me sad because I don't build or upgrade very often.

I'm not even talking about 4x4 - I think that's really just a quick fix, and maybe it will lay some benchmarking pavement for how AMD's quad core implementation will stack up to Intel's. What I am talking about is the K8L, the AM3 socket, the Torrenza platform, DX10 gfx cards, and HTX slots (that link coprocessors directly to the HTT bus 0_0) - if all these come at the same time, we can expect a lot of things to change - especially graphics bottlenecks (not that they'll go away, but they'll definitely open up considerably). I think AMD's recent acquisition of ATi was strategic, and I think that in a year or so, you'll see DX10 cards that fit into such an HTX slot from ATi.

I would hazard that the next 12 months will be some of the fastest the consumer-level computing industry has seen.

I am anxious myself to see how the Torrenza platform pans out.

 

[GamingDaemon]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Ah, it's too bad you are rushed into a decision like that. Why does your wife "need" the PC ASAP? Hope you don't mind me asking. And what about the husband being happy knowing he bought the smartest he could? Anyway, ASUS A8N is a nice Nforce 4 board. ASUS is my fav. And a X2 3800 would be nice if your wife needs Dual core for any reason. Get some DDR 400. Again, check out memory compatability with the motherboard manufacturer.

Well, it is a long story, but we will both be very happy if I build myself a new machine next week. I think I will go with an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium for $139 and CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2x1GB) for $185 (-$30 rebate).

Thank you to everyone who helped me out!

 

[Skott]

Well, if it has to be this week then the AMD chip should win in cost vs performance category if AMD makes the price cuts everyone expects tomorrow. In a stock vs stock comparison the 3800 X2 edges out the E6300 by a small amount. The E6300 is supposed to debut at $183. Not sure what the 3800 X2 is to be cut down to. If the 3800 X2 is cheaper tomorrow then it'll win in the cost vs performance category in stock form between the two chips. Now, if you want to figure OCing potential then things could slide over to the E6300's favor because a 3800 X2 can maybe hit 2800GHz on aircooling if you got the right setup. The E6300 can do 3GHz with the right setup. No one knows for sure yet because the current Conroe mobos cant do the chip justice. The mobos max out before the chip does apparently. I'm guessing for your wife's PC OCing is not planned? Wait and see what prices do Monday, July 24th before you make a final decision.

P.S. I completely understand about making the wife happy. The happier she is the less stress for you. ;-)

 

[misanthropy]

Originally posted by: Skott
In a stock vs stock comparison the 3800 X2 edges out the E6300 by a small amount.

Blantant falsehood. Even at stock it beats the 3800. Like everyone else said, it compares closer to the 4400 and 4600.

 

[oRdchaos]

I wouldn't purchase any DDR memory these days...

If you need a system now, and plan on using the memory down the line, better to get a DDR2 system...

I upgraded a month ago and got the Foxconn 590 board back when it was $180 and a Athlon 3000+. My last motherboard was an Asus A7N8X Deluxe I purchased at release back in the day, so hopefully this one will last me that long.

 

[Furen]

I'd say you guys should wait for the damn chip to be released before making recommendations based on "performance/dollar". As I said in another thread I've heard that the Allendales will launch a bit later than Conroes and that the non-XE Conroes would launch on Aug 7. Then there's the fact that we still dont know just how much Core 2s will be when they're actually launched.

To OP, I'd wait 'till the intial Conroes are launched before deciding. If you can't wait that long then at least wait 'till Tue/Wed to let AMD's price cuts settle down.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

x2 3800+
since your going for a bueget rig.

does the price cut affect the s939 X2s.
if so and you can find a x2 3800+ s939 for 150 go with that. s939 mobo typically cost 60-70 bucks and perfroms very well.

 

[OcHungry]

I think you should consider AM2 platform because in less than year your upgrade will be just CPU (K8L). SAM2 is compatible w/ K8L cpu's, and you dont need HT3. The Ht2 @ 1000mhz is plenty for K8L and quad cores.
I would suggest buying Asus M2n-SLI Delux or a cheaper Epox EP-MF4ULTRA
would be plenty.
Also, You dont need DDR2 800- DDR2 533 w/ tighter timing give you better performance than DDR2 800 looser timings (EX: 11x265=2915 overclocked using 1:1 ratio).
This DDR2 533 has great timings and would give perfect 1:1 ratio for that AM2 4200 2x (11x multiplier).
But if really want DDR2 800, then Corsair or
this Gskill
are good choices.
Or you can buy DDR2 667 and have better memory timings and speed options than DDR2 533.
This DDR2 667 OCZ is only $147 after rebate and has good timings.
But If you want to go s939 and DDR, then I recommend this Patriot DDR500 for only $156.
I have seen this do DDR580.

 

[OcHungry]

Yes even more than 40%. The 4x4 is showing 80% better performance, and it is not true quad core. The K8L's quad core is at least 80% faster than K8, but I was conservative when said 40% faster than conroe. The link below is INQ, but I have seen direct quote from AMD. Will find the link and post as soon as I find it.
The point is: K8L is going to be tested by the end of this year and hit the market mid 2007. From the way things are materializing today, I bet AMD will expedite K8L to 1Q 07.
Intel prematurely brought conroe to the scene 6 months before actual shipment (so far it appears more than 6 moths because only E6800 may show up in retails by August)
This move by Intel was a mistake (for intel) because 75% of their inventory is netburst that will not sell.
Further more, 3-4 months before conroe?s ES?s showed up, everyone was hyperventilating it. So, I see it fit to anticipate K8L today- the same way conroe was fed to the net and was prepared.
That is why I say conroe is a waste of money. By the time you see E6300 it will be September, and a month later K8L?s ES will be tested (according to AMD " during holidays" which means Halloween or Thanksgiving).
Why would you buy an inferior product in September, when 2 months later, the entire net will be talking about K8L squashing conroe and dragging it by it's tail up and down the block? This king will not have a chance to reign and will be kicked out the door by K8L in less than 4 months from now- So dont waste your breath on it.

Note: I used the same words, terminologies, and phrases that are being used for conroe. So if the description of K8L against conroe upsets you... WELL, JUST TOO BAD. just giving you same treatment.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33081

 

[dmens]

Is that you sharikou? HAHAHA!

Wow, true quad core! Does that come with a certificate of authenticity?

 

[zsdersw]

Originally posted by: OcHungry
Yes even more than 40%. The 4x4 is showing 80% better performance, and it is not true quad core. The K8L's quad core is at least 80% faster than K8, but I was conservative when said 40% faster than conroe. The link below is INQ, but I have seen direct quote from AMD. Will find the link and post as soon as I find it.
The point is: K8L is going to be tested by the end of this year and hit the market mid 2007. From the way things are materializing today, I bet AMD will expedite K8L to 1Q 07.
Intel prematurely brought conroe to the scene 6 months before actual shipment (so far it appears more than 6 moths because only E6800 may show up in retails by August)
This move by Intel was a mistake (for intel) because 75% of their inventory is netburst that will not sell.
Further more, 3-4 months before conroe?s ES?s showed up, everyone was hyperventilating it. So, I see it fit to anticipate K8L today- the same way conroe was fed to the net and was prepared.
That is why I say conroe is a waste of money. By the time you see E6300 it will be September, and a month later K8L?s ES will be tested (according to AMD " during holidays" which means Halloween or Thanksgiving).
Why would you buy an inferior product in September, when 2 months later, the entire net will be talking about K8L squashing conroe and dragging it by it's tail up and down the block? This king will not have a chance to reign and will be kicked out the door by K8L in less than 4 months from now- So dont waste your breath on it.

Note: I used the same words, terminologies, and phrases that are being used for conroe. So if the description of K8L against conroe upsets you... WELL, JUST TOO BAD. just giving you same treatment.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33081

Consider the following:

1. Just because people were hyping Conroe (assuming you're right about the proportions involved) doesn't make it right for you to hype K8L. Your childish if you think that's a valid reason for what you're doing.

2. The fact remains that none of what you've said about K8L's performance is seriously rumored (i.e. listed somewhere other than The Inq).. let alone verified by any sort of testing.

 

[imported_inspire]

Nice links, OC Hungry. Just don't forget that if K8L uses the Torrenza platform, more will be linked to the HTT Bus, and it may become saturated. I think the important thing to note is that even if the OP does go AMD, like you're recommending, he can upgrade in a piecemeal fashion to K8L - if that's his flavor.

As for four months, I understand that K8L will be a late Q2 07 launch - am I mistaken? Or have I misread? I've heard the same reports of 80% performance scales from other sources, but none of those figures were in-house scores - they were released by AMD. I personally find it highly plausible that AMD's CPUs can scale to 80% on a 4x4 platform (Considering the Architecture), and I don't think it's too far-fetched to think that true quad core will have higher yeilds.

But, that is a lot of speculation. All I can say is that I personally find AMD's roadmaps to be more exciting than Intel's. Don't ask me why...

 

[Skott]

Official AMD prices as of today

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3460

 

[GamingDaemon]

Originally posted by: Skott
Official AMD prices as of today

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3460

Cool! I bought it from mwave.com for $188, right on target (well $1 over )...

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Mwave had these prices on Saturday when I was there to will call my mobo.

 

[Skott]

Just to clarify, those are the official AMD list prices. What the vendors charge could be entirely different.

 

[Nightmare225]

Core Duo 2 tommorow!

 

[us3rnotfound]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
Core Duo 2 tommorow!

ready for that x6800, eh?