Building frustration

[261great]

Hi,

I am new to the process of building a computer. I've done a bunch of research and reading. Which lead to the move to purchase components and try building a computer. Here is a list of the compenents I bought.

Phase 1:
Abit AV8 Via K8T800 Pro 2000Mhz FSB Dual Channel DDR 400 Socket 939 ATX motherboard
Antec 550W true control power supply
Asus AX800 XT/TVD ATI Radeon X800 XT 256MB DDR3 AGP 8X Video Card
(2) Western Digital Raptors 74GB (10000rpm) hard drives
AMD 64fx 53 Athlon 64 939P RT
Dual DDR 1GB PC3200 XLPro corsair RT
Dual DDR 1GB Twin1024 - 3200XL corsair
Pioneer DVR-A08

Assembled - power on, three short beeps, powers off...

Phase 2:
Replaced motherboard with MSI K8N

Assembled - power on... no signal monitor - no screen menu - unable to load OS


Phase 3 :
Called retailers to discuss replacement of motherboard (XPCGear.com) - answer we don't do that since the mb is not defective, you need to replace the power supply or test other components was their reply.

Called retailer to discuss replcement of video card (XPGear.com) - answer contact the man first, we don't replace components that are not defective.

My thinking at this point is that all retailers want me to buy 5 of each component and piece together the systems until I find one that works. Sadly I am not made of money and can't afford to be buying multiple cards at $600 etc.

Can anyone help me figure out what is going on here? I mean these are supposed to be the finest components (with in reason) I am sitting here looking at a computer system worth 4k and so far it's fancy paperweight.

 

[Hyperlite26]

Hey 261, Im not an expert but I would go with the first configuration that you tryed to install but only use 2 of those sticks of RAM that you listed instead of all 4. From what I have read it's important to use memory modules of the same brand & model if possible. I know you have the same brand but they are the same model it seems. This may or may not be the problem but it wont take long to do the test to see.

Hope it helps.

 

[261great]

I purchased the second set of memory as a test to see if memory was the issue. it doesnt seem to have been... So now I own 2GB of memory both corsair just different models.

I tested this system by unplugging everything but the CPU, MB and Vid card. still no luck.
tried one hard drive, vid card, MB still no luck.
re-seated everything. still no luck.

Everything powers up now, just not getting anything on the monitor screen (black).

 

[MrChad]

Do you get any kind of beeps or POST codes displayed on your motherboard? Sometimes these can be helpful in narrowing down the problem.

Also, you did remember to run a power connector to your video card, right?

 

[zigzag03]

have seen similar issues, the simple solution was to reset the bios... give it a shot. zz

 

[mechBgon]

Some new builders overlook their ATX12V cable, did you get that plugged in? Another goof I see every so often is that they don't realize the motherboard needs standoffs underneath it

The top link on this page has more no-POST brainstorms you can check yourself on. Use just one pair of memory modules and put them in the slots that the motherboard's manual says to use. Unplug your drives and all unnecessary cards/etc, and if it still won't run, take it out of the case and benchtest it on cardboard like this. Make sure the AGP card is fully seated in both layers of contacts, not just halfway in.

Good luck

edit: by the way, 1) welcome to the Forums, and 2) there are creditable reports that the Abit has problems with TruePower power supplies, so if you have another high-quality power supply in the 400W area, try that too.

 

[261great]

Thanks! mechBgon I can't get to your website as the browser times out. I would very much like to see these links. Any idea what's going on with the site?

MrChad - When using the abit mb I did get three short beeps right before it powered off. Also the digital code display on the board read 9F.

Also, the mb is connected to the case with little alluminum risers and the screw that goes into the riser through the mb. and yeah I did connect the power supply (molex 4pin) from antec to video card.

Zigzag - I can't reset the BIOS without a screen menu can I? Also I have read that resetting the BIOS can, in some cases, cause more problems. So doing this would be one more step I do not know how to do.

Thanks for the feedback all.

Currently, I have the MSI board in with the Antec 550W power supply, asus ati x800 xt, amd 64 CPU, with both raptors via SATA, the pioneer DVD, and a standard floppy drive, plus three case fans.

Everything powers up, but all i get is a black screen on monitor. Do I need to press f6 on startup or something?

Oh also the monitor is a Viewsonic VP201b and the keyboard is a microft wireless.

 

[mechBgon]

Hmmm, I can't reach my links either I'll have to email my ISP and ask them where'd my stuff go.

The ATX12V cable is the square 2 x 2 one with two yellow and two black wires, and typically is used to power the CPU's power circuits. On the K8N Neo2 Platinum, the motherboard's receptacle for this is at the top-left corner of the board, so make sure you didn't overlook that.

You can reset the BIOS with the computer off, and in fact it should be unplugged as well. Your manual shows how. At this point I'd suggest the benchtest approach. Use a regular keyboard to start with, and make sure it's plugged into the keyboard port and not the mouse port (it matters). Hang in there

 

[Sideswipe001]

Make sure you first try to get it to come on with JUST the video/RAM/CPU installed. You might even want to try it out of the case - just sitting on some cardboard or something - to make sure it's not seated incorrectly in the case.

 

[Swylen]

Those are nice parts. I feel bad for you.

Resetting the Bios shouldn't damage anything unless you do it wrong. It sounds like the problem. I would try to reset it. If it's a pin you have to move then it's real easy. Yours is located at JBAT1. Unplug ur power supply move the pin to the reset (clear data) position. Plug it back in and power on the computer for about 10 secs. Kill power and unplug again. Move pin back to original position plug back in and start the computer. Go directly into the bios (press delete at post) and select Load Optomized Defaults on the right side. Select it and press F10 to save. Another thing you could try is to unplug any case fans that are plugged directly into the motherboard. It's an old Epox trick (those crazy monkeys). Read ur manual if your unsure of those steps. Good luck

Here's the latest BIOS. Double check to make sure I pointed to the correct board. Get a floppy and follow Bios update instructions.
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/...php?UID=572&kind=1

 

[261great]

Ok,

I will be working on the system (Friday) since I can take the day off. I'll be setting up the cardboard test and piecing together only the most basic but want to make sure I understand...

power supply
motherboard - after reset of BIOS
video card
CPU

nothing else - test - see what happens - right?

Now Swlyen my question is this: If I get no screen menu at all... how do I update the BIOS via a floppy??
I mean if I can't see anything on the monitor, how will the floppy make a difference?

 

[Swylen]

That's a good question. Hopefully after you set up the basics and reset the CMOS you will get juice and a video signal. Then hookup a hd and floppy. I had to load a new Bios last night. It's kind of a pain. I kept getting the format of the command incorrect.

To make a bios disk. You need to make an old win98 boot disk and put awdflash.exe along with the bios file xxxxxxxx.bin and boot using that disk. The command I had to use was at the A:> prompt

awdflash xxxxxxx.bin /sn/py/cc/
**pay attention to the space after awdflash and bin

Check your manual to make sure format is the same. Or go to msi support site.

 

[261great]

Swyen,

SUCCESS! Cardboard test resulted in powerup and monitor screen menu:
W7025NMS V1.o 070204 10:04:5222222

Main Processor: AMD Athlon 64 FX-53
Mem test 1048576 OK
IDE primary master - none
primary slave - none
secondary master - none
secondary slave - none

thrid - none
fourth - none
fifth - none
sixth - none

CMOS checksum erroe - Defaults loaded

press f1 to continue or DEL to enter setup.

No my basic problem is I have no way to create an "old? wiondows 98 boot disk as I am talking to you on a mac. (don't hold that against me)

 

[261great]

Also, now that I know there is some problem with they way the board is nesting into the case.. what do I do now?

 

[Swylen]

Thats good news. I don't have any experience with the cardboard test. Your using the case standoffs that you screw the motherboard into, correct? Make sure you don't have any extra standoffs and that they line up perfectly with the holes in your motherboard. I remember reading something about putting a tiny piece of electrical tape sticky side down(slightly larget than the screw openining in the standoof) with a hole punched in it for the screw. You can try that later if it still shorts out. Try it without first.

You need a pc for a disk though. goto www.bootdisk.com. I like drdos the best. DL that one and run the exe. make a disk, put awdflash.exe and xxxxxxxx.bin (bios) on disk. Boot with that.

 

[Swylen]

Boot it and press delete to get to bios. Look for Load Optomized Defaults then press F10 to save. That will clear your checksum error.

What kinda standoffs do you have. Brass screw in kind or funky plastic ones.

Do they look like this:Motherboard Install Instructions

 

[IanE]

Is the motherboard mounted on the brass standoffs?

Please say yes.

Also, when you didn't get anything on the monitor, it make a difference in which port its plugged into. I mean either the motherboard's VGA or the graphics card's VGA... if the graphics card is in the slot and locked, plug the monitor in that.

I just built my first pc and had no problems whatsoever... and you have most of the same parts I do so it isn't a compatability problem...

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: IanE
Is the motherboard mounted on the brass standoffs?

Please say yes.

$20 says no...
his initial discription(s) sound exactly like the MB is shorting out on the tray.
If he tosses the standoffs in now, and the little rubber/paper washers he should be cool.

 

[IanE]

It should be fine trying to run without the standoffs I'd say a max of 12 times... that's when I would start to seriously worry...

261, did you by chance assemble said dream machine on a carpet floor with socks on? I'm not trying to be a jerk, serious question. Did you make sure to stay grounded while assembling it?

Ian

 

[Swylen]

Not all holes are grounding points. Often times, the one or two holes in the very corners are not grounding points as they are not standard ATX formfactor mounting holes. You can determine whether a mounting hole is a ground by whether or not the tin/solder/metal ring around the holes is present or not. Holes without metal rings around the edges are not grounds and should NOT come into contact with metal stand-offs; insulating material should be used. It's rather unlikely that using the metal stand-off for this corner hole is going to short anything out, but the possibility exists.

Only use metal stand-offs for holes that have metal rings around them and thus are grounds. In that case, it is important to use proper metal stand-offs that will provide a ground for the motherboard.

 

[261great]

The standoffs look to be aluminum to my untrained eye. The come in a plastic bag and I press them through the back of the case to line up with the holes on the mb.

The MSI board box did not come with fiberwashers. I just got back from the store with a few in hand.

The MSI K8N mb has each of the screw holes surrounded by what looks like a little metal circular shield. There are no holes without that shield.

Yes, I was standing on carpet. No, I was not wearing socks. Yes, I was wearing my grounding braclet.

Lord, please let the gods of static leave me alone. I would hate to think of what happens when I mix the two things together...

 

[261great]

Further success!

HD installed
Video Card installed
floppy drive installed
memory installed
DVD/CD installed
CPU installed

System powers up fine now. This is what I am seeing on my monitor screen:

W7025NMS V1.0 070204 10:04:52

Main Processor: AMD Athlon 64 FX-53
Memory Testing: 2097152k OK

IDE Primary Master: Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-108 1.10
IDE Primary Slave: None
IDE Secondary Master: None
IDE Secondary Slave: None
IDE Third Master: WDC WD740GD-00FLA0 21.08U21
IDE Fourth Master: WDC WD740GD-00FLA0 21.08U21

IDE Fifth Master: None
IDE Sixth Master: None
CMOS checksum error - defaults loaded


So how am I doing? Everything seem normal other than the checksum error?

 

[261great]

Status:

When I reset the BIOS, the system starts up fine. But I still get that checksum error...

So I followed your instructions Swylen, I enter SETUP and navidate to LOAD Opt Def then press f10, confirm Y..... nothing happens, the computer is still on but there is no menu on the monitor. And the activity lights on the memory are dark.

In fact.. I tested..

I removed all but one mem stick. reset CMOS. started up, went into SETUP, navigated down to save and exit... no changes made at all.. which should of course restart and push me back to POST right???

Well it doesn't. It leaves me viewing a black monitor screen again. The only way to get the screen up again is to reset CMOS.

I spoke with MSI... The usual chatter about grounding memory, etc.. i told him I had palce fiberwashers on all contact points...

He also said that the BIOS update shouldn't effect wether the board posts or not... But then again you found a post stating that the new boards would not post without the new BIOS...

I am still confused.... Am tempted to take the box down to Fry's and tell the guy I think there is an issue with the motherboard and ask him to flash the BIOS and test the board out. I am so out of snacks and rootbeer...

 

[Swylen]

Sounds like it's time for that Bios update. Do you have internet connectivity? Checksum means some piece of hardware and or a bios setting has changed and is not matching with the old bios. Sometimes resetting bios settings can be tricky. Try to reset cmos with the jumper then when you fire it up go directly into bios and load optomized defaults. Sometimes it doesn't take for some reason. Check your manual maybe you have to reset CMOS after too. I'm not sure.

You may have to try the bios update but give it few more tries first.

 

[261great]

Thanks. I have been trying the reset method for a while now. I think it does need the BIOS update. I just have no way of doing that myself as macs don't use floppies and I dont think I can do it from a CD.. can I?