Building first watercooling system some advice requested

[Lazien]

Hmmm that is very suprising Hard Warrior. I saw in other forums that the PolarFLO TT was a great block that's why I picked it first, suggestions here made Me rethink that decision and got for the swiftech storm. Now I'm thinking of going back to PolarFLO hehehe.

The only thing I dont like about the PolarFLO is the 3 barb design because it makes the system look sloppy. Although I saw in the gruntville review they will be having a 2 barb version out soon, I'd wager that the performace will take a hit and push it under the storm's performance, but that is merely speculation on My part.
I guess I should google the 2 barb PolarFLO TT and see if anyone has reviewed it yet.

Thanks for the suggestions Hard Warrior.

 

[Lazien]

What do You mean about being VERY careful about my coolant Hard Warrior? Are You talking about mix ratio's? or do I have to strain it or something lol?

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Lazien
Hmmm that is very suprising Hard Warrior. I saw in other forums that the PolarFLO TT was a great block that's why I picked it first, suggestions here made Me rethink that decision and got for the swiftech storm. Now I'm thinking of going back to PolarFLO hehehe.

The only thing I dont like about the PolarFLO is the 3 barb design because it makes the system look sloppy. Although I saw in the gruntville review they will be having a 2 barb version out soon, I'd wager that the performace will take a hit and push it under the storm's performance, but that is merely speculation on My part.
I guess I should google the 2 barb PolarFLO TT and see if anyone has reviewed it yet.

Thanks for the suggestions Hard Warrior.

I'm rocking in the same boat. I'm itching for a swifty storm too, but the TT's performance, price, looks and comparatively low maintenance are nothing to sneeze at. Plus, I've always thought that triple titters were kinda sexy. If you find a 2-barb let me know. I'll be looking as well. I mentioned coolant because it's a very important aspect of water-cooling, and I hadn't noticed much emphasis placed on it in this thread.

 

[Lazien]

Yea I really like the look of the PolarFLO TT blocks. I'm deadset now on getting them for My GPU cooling since they look so damn sweet!
Then again that Storm block looks pimp also.

I read a bunch of reviews on the two-barb PolarFLO TT and they said the difference between the 2 and 3 barb versions was negligible. So I'm sold on the 2 barb PolarFLO TT if I can only find someone selling them now, so far google has yet to turn up a vendor and www.polarflo.com doesn't even list it.

Final thought on the Storm. On Swiftech's website it says it could have a potential C/W of about .12 but the pressure drop of it is perty drastic. Conversly the PolarFLO TT has a C/W of about .14 but a very low pressure drop.

Well I just found this article that has Me thinking that the PolarFLO TT might be the better all around choice. http://www.overclockers.com/articles1050/

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Mrvile]

Yes, the TT is sexy, I almost purchased it when shopping for my watercooling setup, but I really didn't like 3 barbs (more places to leak), and I also read that the TDX and the TT had almost the same performance, so I stuck with the DD too.

 

[wasserkool]

hey lazien..why don't you take a look at the german watercooling kits..they are very very good:

it provides the best cooling capability and it is very well engineered...here is an review from a very reputable source

http://www.procooling.com/reviews/html/alphacool_nexxxos_xp_waterbloc.php

overall, german design does not require thick tubing or insane flow rate, yet cools the same or even better than american blocks

i myself have this radiator:
http://www.watercool.de/cms/forum/threa...2&sid=1e671620ca51e3455266ece81e4006e7

and it is the finest rad i've ever seen

even their graphics card cooling are superior:

choose the appropriate block for the GPU die:
http://www.alphacool.de/perl/shop.pl?s=...w_art&menu_id=2&prod_id=120&art_kz=122

and the blocks for eACH INDIVIDUAL RAM!! (these people are just the best at watercooling)

http://www.alphacool.de/perl/shop.pl?s=...2&prod_id=120&art_kz=112&art_id=22207#

 

[Mrvile]

Wasserkool...for some odd reason I think you're advertising...I've seen you post the same stuff about that German watercooling stuff at least four or five times...

 

[wasserkool]

lol ok i am not advertising, nor am i related to that company whatsoever, i have their products and speaking from my own experience

i just really like the products and want the general forum members to know more about german kits which are truly VERY good..

 

[Lazien]

I checked these guys out the first time You posted them. I just have reservations about ordering from outside the USA, I mean how long will it take to get My stuff? I dont want to pay a fortune just to get it here in less than a week lol. Also everything is in Euros so I have to google all the prices just to know what I'm spending, and the language barrier worries Me also.

BTW were would You put that radiator? it looks HUGE from the pictures, everything is in german so I can't read what it's size is but it looks like it can take NINE fans...D A M N ! ! !

As for their waterblocks, they perform good, but are just too damn restrictive for what I think I want. While their copper blocks look perty sweet, I prefer the look for the PolarFLO TT and the Swiftech Storm over their blocks and they both out perform the ones from Alphacool.

I just couldn't imagine running all those lines for individual ram chip cooling. I can just imagine the pump one would need to supply all those waterblocks low pressure or otherwise.

Ok I'm sold on this reservoir...it's absolutely pimp!!! It just looks like a mother to mount, how do You mount that thing to a case? http://www.alphacool.de/perl/shop.pl?s=...=2&prod_id=150&art_kz=157&art_id=15110

Thanks for the post Wasserkool, You solved My reservoir search because that is a thing of beauty for sure.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: wasserkool
lol ok i am not advertising, nor am i related to that company whatsoever, i have their products and speaking from my own experience

i just really like the products and want the general forum members to know more about german kits which are truly VERY good..

I've been aware of German WC products for some time, mostly from looking at SNTsystems' site. I have to say that I've been impressed by the engineering and how different it is from what I think of as American water-cooling. I agree with Lazien though, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of international credit card purchases.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Lazien
Mrvile I read from other forums that the PolarFLO WB's were the best (besides some "whitewater" WB which has like a 3month wait list)...does the MCW6002 and DD TDX perform better then they do?

Also I went to Danger Den and found these 2 Radiators but I'm at a loss for which is better according to the given spec's.

ThermoChill HE120.3 --- http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=46&cat=15&page=1 This one says 550W heat dissipation.

Black Ice XtremeIII Radiator --- http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=4&cat=13&page=1 This one says 9702 BTU per hour.

Does anyone know of a conversion so that I can get these both to the same units. I mean how does BTU/hour compare to Watts LOL ???

Thanks for any help

The Whitewater hasn't had a waiting list for a long time. You can get it at dtek customs. It has been slightly surpassed by Swiftech's 6000 series, and Cathar's other designs, the Storm series (G4/G5). The difference isn't huge though, but the main advantage to the newer blocks is that they require less hookups. As far as radiators go, a good heatercore will almost always surpass a good custom rad from a company like black ice. However, a dual custom might be better than a single heatercore (perhaps, just speculating). But again, then a double heatercore will win against a double custom rad. The specialty/custom rads however have a few advantages:
1. generally smaller, so easier to find a place for
2. often look better (although you can buy finished heatercores such as Dtek's procore


As far as my system is concerned, I'm seriously considering going with Dtek's Flowmaster kit, as they have a 10% off sale going right now that will bring down the price of a serious water cooling system down to about $165 shipped for me. That is a hell of a deal for what it comes with (the new CSP-mag pump, tubing, the whitewater block, the HDPE res, coolant additive, clamps, and the procore rad).

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: wasserkool
hey lazien..why don't you take a look at the german watercooling kits..they are very very good:

it provides the best cooling capability and it is very well engineered...here is an review from a very reputable source

http://www.procooling.com/reviews/html/alphacool_nexxxos_xp_waterbloc.php

overall, german design does not require thick tubing or insane flow rate, yet cools the same or even better than american blocks

i myself have this radiator:
http://www.watercool.de/cms/forum/threa...2&sid=1e671620ca51e3455266ece81e4006e7

and it is the finest rad i've ever seen

even their graphics card cooling are superior:

choose the appropriate block for the GPU die:
http://www.alphacool.de/perl/shop.pl?s=...w_art&menu_id=2&prod_id=120&art_kz=122

and the blocks for eACH INDIVIDUAL RAM!! (these people are just the best at watercooling)

http://www.alphacool.de/perl/shop.pl?s=...2&prod_id=120&art_kz=112&art_id=22207#

The German stuff is certainly nice, but a high end American setup will beat a high end German setup on temps. There was extensive discussion of this on the procooling forums. The German stuff often spanks the American stuff in other areas, such as looks, ease of use/tube routing, and features (check out some of Aquacomputers goodies to see what I mean here). Unfortunately, it also spanks around the American stuff on price, and not in a good way either.

 

[HardWarrior]

I'd wait for some field data on the CSP MAG, Sparky. The first version got off to a good start in terms of reviews but turned out having lots of problems. I hate to bring this up, being that the topic has caused so many arguments in the past, but the jury is still out on whether a core is better than a rad. I've yet to see an apples v. applles comparison of the two, and in the final analysis this is a game of numbers. At any rate, a 3x120 rad\core isn't going to be challenged in terms of dissipation, even by hottest gamer rig.

 

[Lazien]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
I hate to bring this up, being that the topic has caused so many arguments in the past, but the jury is still out on whether a core is better than a rad. I've yet to see an apples v. applles comparison of the two, and in the final analysis this is a game of numbers. At any rate, a 3x120 rad\core isn't going to be challenged in terms of dissipation, even by hottest gamer rig.

That is exactly what I was hoping to hear from someone Hard Warrior. This entire thread really got Me thinking on all the unknowns in PC water cooling. If You try to compare and seriously quantify results from other people online (be it users or a webmaster) there has to be a common ground that is missing in just about every post I've ever read on the subject. That missing information is the accuracy (+/-% or units) of the test measuring equipment. Were I work we routinely calibrate all of our equipment so that we can get repeatable results. The certificate of calibration plainly stats the environmental conditions (which should always be around 70F and 50%RH for calibration) at time of calibration, the accuracy of the standard, the accuracy range of the unit being calibrated (+/- something) and finally the results of said calibration.

I can't remember when I've read a "review" of a waterblock or radiator and saw the reviewer state "This test performed in a temperature controlled room at 70degrees F and 50% relative humidity. The accuracy of the probe used to measure the fluid temp's is -60-230F +/- 0.2F." So we really can't say one way or another what block is better when Your looking at temp differances of 1-3C.

I just find it VERY hard to believe that those little thermistors on motherboards have an accuracy any better than +/-3,4C yet You always see people saying WOAH My setup ROCKS...My temps are 28C at load.....XYZ block is AWSOME. For all we know that guy is running his pc in a meat locker and using his finger to measure the water temps

So I decided to hock some equipment from work or just take My pc there and do some quantitative testing. When I get My setup running I will purchase a heatercore from a local store and compare it to the custom rad I buy. We have all calibrated equipment at work so I will be able to state with NIST traceable accuracy which is better. I'm considering on buying both the PolarFLO TT and the Swiftech Storm and do the same test.

I didn't want to get into this because I'm fairly busy (work 10-12 hour days) and prefer to spend any free time doing other things but I think this all needs to be done just so everyone knows what's up and so I know what the best parts are hehehe

Now all I need to know is what heatercore everyone thinks is the best or atleast compareable to Black Ice Xtreme 3.

 

[wasserkool]

Originally posted by: Lazien
I checked these guys out the first time You posted them. I just have reservations about ordering from outside the USA, I mean how long will it take to get My stuff? I dont want to pay a fortune just to get it here in less than a week lol. Also everything is in Euros so I have to google all the prices just to know what I'm spending, and the language barrier worries Me also.

BTW were would You put that radiator? it looks HUGE from the pictures, everything is in german so I can't read what it's size is but it looks like it can take NINE fans...D A M N ! ! !

As for their waterblocks, they perform good, but are just too damn restrictive for what I think I want. While their copper blocks look perty sweet, I prefer the look for the PolarFLO TT and the Swiftech Storm over their blocks and they both out perform the ones from Alphacool.

I just couldn't imagine running all those lines for individual ram chip cooling. I can just imagine the pump one would need to supply all those waterblocks low pressure or otherwise.

Ok I'm sold on this reservoir...it's absolutely pimp!!! It just looks like a mother to mount, how do You mount that thing to a case? http://www.alphacool.de/perl/shop.pl?s=...=2&prod_id=150&art_kz=157&art_id=15110

Thanks for the post Wasserkool, You solved My reservoir search because that is a thing of beauty for sure.

hi lazien, glad that i could help..btw..that website i showed you has english..if you look at the top right hand corner (above the credit card image) u see a british flag, click on it and it it will switch to english version of the website

alphacool is a very reputable german watercooling company on par with innovatek so no need to worry about credit card fraud. They ship with DHL and it takes about a week and cost around Euro 29. I ordered alot of stuff from them which are quiet heavy and the shipping cost is very reasonable

for that radiator, yah..its huge..you can mount 9 120MM fans on it lol for UBER cooling. But for a regular PC you can run it fanless hehe...

this guy has the same rad with pics;
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46213&highlight=MORA

 

[HardWarrior]

You're good, Lazien. I admire a person who takes the analytical approach to a project. :thumbsup: TBH, I'm not aware of a standard core that can be used in comparison to a 3x120 rad. By "standard" I mean a 3x120 equivalent core that will easily mount in or on a computer case. That doesn't mean there isn't one though. You might try asking at ProCooling or Overclockers. There?s a guy at Overclockers named Weapon who fabs cores and is VERY knowledgeable on the subject. Let me know if you need links.

 

[Lazien]

I was already thinking of buying the Black Ice Xtreme 2 because of case space constraints. So I would assume the heatercore alternative to this rad is the 77 bonniville? they are both 2x120 rads from My understanding.

Please post thoughts on what everyone thinks will make the best test products.

 

[HardWarrior]

If I have my names right, the 77 Bonneville is legendary. At least a LOT of people jaw about it like it is.

 

[Lazien]

I think I'm going to buy a bunch of extra tubing also and see if having say 10' of extra tubing in Your case makes any diff on temps. I know that supposedly there is a pressure drop due to increased friction yadda yadda yadda, but at what point is it measureable? at what point will the temps take a hit? can You have only 1' before system performance degrades? or can You have 6' or 2.37'

The only thing I would like to do but have yet to figure out how is max out the system/radiator. If these things are so good and can handle 500W-600W I would like to put that much on the water blocks and see what really happens. Will the heatercore dissipate more heat than the custom radiator? I'm hoping to answer these questions.

 

[Lazien]

Well it's all said and done now....I started ordering the components for the WC system.

As for the testing of the system and components I still need some sort of device/system in which I can deliver an accurate (within +/-1Watt) heat source to the blocks. If anyone has any ideas other than using say a hotplate and measuring the draw I am all ears. The fewer components needed the better since I dont want to introduce more error due to tolerances of various equipment than needed.

Thanks for any suggestions guys