Building Desktop for 3ds max / maya

[mumpay]

Hi all!

My friend and I are building a desktop for me, I'm going in to a 1 year program for 3D modelling and visual effects. This took a lot of research, and for that reason we'd love to get some more experienced input (here!).

canadian prices, canadian suppliers (tigerDirect and Ncix)

Any advise or tips would be warmly appreciated!

CPU $350
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Quad Core Processor LGA775 2.66GHZ Yorkfield 1333FSB 12MB Retail Box
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...9450&manufacture=Intel


Graphics Card $180
XFX GeForce 9800 GTX Video Card - FREE Company of Heroes PC Game, 512MB DDR3, PCI Express 2.0, SLI Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, HDMI Support, Dual VGA Support
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/appl...ails.asp?EdpNo=3747036

I would have LIKED a workstation card, but cost was an issue, and many reviews from real world users say they dont run into problems on the 9800 until they reach ridiculous polygon counts. Not to say I'll never hit that, but I know the project line up, and it's mostly small object based, not large scene based. At $180 too, I can pop this in to my old desktop without cringing at the loss and upgrade / drop buckets of money later.


MoBo $340
EVGA Nforce 790i Ultra LGA775 ATX DDR3 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2PCI SATA2 RAID Sound GBLAN 1394 Motherboard
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...79-A1&manufacture=eVGA


Heat Sink $61
Thermaltake TMG i1
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/appl...pNo=2932376&CatId=1588


Ram $200
Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB 2X2GB PC3-10666 DDR3-1333 CL7-7-7-20 Dual Channel
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...LK&manufacture=Patriot


O/S (own already)
XP 64 bit (the school uses xp32 so no vista for me)


Case $244
Antec P182 Black Mid Tower Case & Antec Truepower Trio 650W Power Supply Bundle - good reviews, large fans, quiet.
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...-650&manufacture=ANTEC



2 Hard Drives in Raid 0 $128
2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...AS&manufacture=Seagate
Plus a Backup Portable 500GB USB2.0 for later purchase (every day will be a backup to bring to school).


DVD burner $25
Lite-On LH-20A1S SuperAllwrite SATA OEM DVD Burner - 20x DVD±R Burn, 16x DVD±R Read, 8x DVD+RW, 6x DVD-RW, 8x DVD±R DL, 12x DVD-RAM, 48x32x CD-R/RW, No Software
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/appl...pNo=3189552&CatId=1624



Total (not counting the ext. HD for later purchase) : $1528 + tax + shipping from 2 suppliers (~$1800).

Are there some serious flaws you can see? swaps that might be a good idea? this will be low to nill gaming, just 3ds max work. I was figuring $2k max.

 

[IlllI]

EVGA Nforce 790i Ultra

that mobo is probably overkill unless you plan on adding another video card for sli

 

[Spicedaddy]

Intel P35 or P45 board, and I'd go for a Radeon 4850.

 

[Stiganator]

I would personally go for a DDR2 board since it is way cheaper you can get 8 GB. Personally, I would go for slightly cheaper processor too since that one has a bit of a premium. You could get a cheap quadro card instead, like a FX560.

 

[Stiganator]

Look at Kaido's threads in All Things Apple. He has an 800 quad core, that can also boot Leopard if you're interested in Final Cut Pro.

 

[slugg]

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
Intel P35 or P45 board, and I'd go for a Radeon 4850.

^^ Agreed on the chipset, but don't go with ATI for your purposes. ATI's OpenGL implementation for consumer grade cards is very low precision. All consumer grade cards are low precision, but Nvidia's is generally more friendly with all your content creation apps, like 3D Studio Max and Maya.

I don't know if this is still around, but there used to be a hack that let the Geforce cards operate at higher "Quadro" precision. Obviously, this slowed down the performance quite a bit, but at least you wouldn't have any problems when dealing with complex geometry. Still, the 9800 should be fine for most work.

You're on a 32 bit operating system - you're only gonna see about 3 out of those 4 gigs of memory. Just letting you know in case you didn't already.

You could also probably save some money with a slower CPU, but that's your call. Nothing wrong with the one you picked

 

[mumpay]

Beauty, let me look in to what ncix and tiger have in the way of a lower mobo, I dont think I'll be doing SLI any time soon. thanks!

As for the grahpics cards, I've been all over the map and am still on the fence.

I would prefer nvidia because it seems to be stronger for 3dsmax and maya, plus I have heard about softmodding it to a quadro like slugg said. However, that 4850 goes for the same price and has higher specs and is strongly recommended by others in the field too, over the 9800 gtx (gx2 is out of my budget, just like the 4870).

as for the workstation card, I was looking at the firegl3600, which seemed to outpreform the fx560 in benchmarks
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...t/firegl-quadrofx.html
But then, in the 3dsmax 9 tests the 9800 beat them both, by quite a bit. Just not in specviewperf10 though. it's basic specs are much lower though than the two gamer cards as well...


Is there really no real benefit to (less) DDR3 ram versus (more) DDR2?

the q9300 was $30 cheaper. the q6600 though... hmm... $140 cheaper. I shall confer with the friend/computer expert (i am not one lol).

I won't be doing any animation; final cut pro, while a very delicious ap and I do miss the mac interface, would be an unnecessary distraction, heh.

This is great feedback people, thank you!

 

[gaiden2k5]

my 2cents would be 2x4850 CFX on a x38/x48 board but then again there's nothing wrong w/ a 9800gtx.

there is one problem however... ya it's a nice antec case with a PSU... but your choice of mobo makes ppl think that you will stick another 9800 for sli in the future. Thought it works, I would never suggest such config in a "concealed mid-tower" like that. you want a "wind tunnel" setup on a "full-tower" to maximize that airflow because, afterall, nvidia chips are set to run hotter. that mid case would be nice for a nice mid-grade config. yours isnt. dont undercut on the PSU, having a good one will save you lots trouble in the future, especially for upgrading. you need at least a 750w brand-name IMO - Corsair/PCP&C/Silverston/Seasonic/TT, Coolermaster aren't bad either.

this is from T.D. it's not bad and you get what you paid for - more airflow, and more room for hot air to go around inside: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/appl...pNo=3495972&CatId=1510


gl

b

 

[mumpay]

ya i won't be SLI'ing. just one graphics card for me here. I think I do want DDR3 though, I mean the 4gb of it is cheap enough, versus 8gb ddr2...

ive been searching for a different motherboard all day, i'm in a jumble of links from using
http://www.shopbot.ca/
(nice list of canadian sellers, can sort by price, lists all the specs. v handy).

I think all I need is:
DDR3 ram
Raid
Sata2
on board sound (i dont need/want a sound card)
it can handle the processor (45nm socket 775)

i can get either the ATI 4850 or the Nvidia 9800 if it suits a particular board more than another. I'm still utterly on the fence.

The prices vary so much for these motherboards, from $180 to $350, I'm SO lost in the features and flavours.

 

[Stiganator]

I would say 64 bit XP (Or Vista if you must), since 3dsmax 2009 has very stable 64 bit version. The extra RAM will actually go to use which is useful for large scenes. 32 bit XP can only address 3 GB total, and only 2GB per application. 64 bit can address like 16TB. Last time I checked DDR3 was slower than DDR2 and its more expensive. You really shouldn't waste your money on DDR3. Doesn't Newegg ship to Canada? I'll post a build shortly.

 

[IlllI]

i second that Stiganator. if i had a choice to get 8gb of ddr2 vs 4gb ddr3 at roughly the same price, it would be a nobrainer

 

[Stiganator]

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131196 $149
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115017 $209
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231121 x 4 $164
GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127329 $164
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817341002 $125
RAID: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16816115029 $109
HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822148136 x4 $320
DVD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827106073 $30
CASE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811119068 $50

TOTAL: $1320 USD/CAD

These are all very, very good components. You get a lot more with this build IMHO.

2.4 GHz Quad core, 8GB RAM, 8800GT, Hardware RAID 5 (or 0 if that's your thing) with 4x 500GB SATAII, Great stable PSU.

*** PCI-E RAID cards sometimes have issues with x16 PCI-E slots since the first implementation of PCI-E was graphics only. I have the RocketRAID 2300 working fine, so I'll assume the 2310 will also work fine. But normally, if it doesn't work you can just send it back and the performance and redundancy is worth it I think.

PS. Case is up to you. I just use integrated audio. This one has a nice air tube, which does help with temps and noise. I have a P180 and its ok, but nothing spectacular IMO. You can always get some aftermarket noise damping to put in the case if noise is an issue.

If you really want an aftermarket heatsink, this has lots of good reviews.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835186134

EDIT: I just priced it all out on NCIX.com and it came to about $1360. I don't see a way to save the wishlist though. Choose Patriot 2 sets of Patriot 2x2GB 444-12, 4x Seagate 7200.11 with 32MB, EVGA 8800GT, RocketRAID 2310, so a bit of an upgrade from the Newegg links.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17990
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...sku=27144&promoid=1051
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22959
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18185
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=27704
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...sku=26701&promoid=1051
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...sku=22211&promoid=1051
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=27760
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=13954

It you have cash burning a hole in your pocket, I would step up the CPU to a slightly faster Yorkfield model, then video card, better RAID card or bigger harddrives in that order.

There is really nothing else I'd upgrade, unless you were to look at a dual processor board, in which case I recommend the intel 5400 chipset the only downside is FB-DIMMs which are a little more expensive

 

[Stiganator]

You could spend some money on a digitizer tablet and a big 24" LCD or a nice wireless mouse keyboard combo. Maybe pickup a 500GB USB drive for backup/portable data.


Tips:
Install service packs before anything else if possible (put them on a flash drive,exception being the RAID drivers which you might need to load during Windows installation).

Then install drivers, chipset is first....always! Then other hardware in pretty much any order. If you've never built your own system before, to prevent problems, get the newest drivers direct from the companies that make the hardware, so intel, nvidia, highpoint, broadcom, etc. Not from Retailers like EVGA etc. The manufacturers drivers won't have any bloated apps attached.

When you first start up, make sure to tweak the recycling bin and sytem restore settings to off preferably or very low. They each default to 10% of disk space which at 1.5TB is significant.

Disable startup items with msconfig

Disable visual effects because this is a work machine.

Find low resource apps like Foxit Reader, Firefox 3 (no low but safer and better), Thunderbird, MirandaIM, Notepad++, VLC, Antivir (Symantec/Norton/McAfee is very bad) etc.

Remove windows bloat: MSN Explorer, Windows Messenger, Outlook Express.
Disable unnecessary services, by default about 30-35 will be running, my rigs only run about 10 and it speeds up booting, logging off and responsiveness.

Optional (But very useful): Image the system with Ghost or TrueImage, with RAID it might not be easy or possible. Then you can just slap the image back on when the system starts getting sluggish.

Feel free to post or PM if you have questions.

 

[mumpay]

oh my gosh THANK you so much! oh wow, you're such a huge help, this is so helpful!

ya i'll definetly go for 8gb ddr2 on 64 bit. good call, thanks for the link to ncix on a good make, ill get that ram.

for the motherboard, that one you sent is good, but reading a few reviews about the p35, im thinking p45 might be better.
what do you think of this guy
ASUS P5Q ATX LGA775 P45 DDR2 PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN 1394 Motherboard
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...n=P5Q&manufacture=ASUS

should be just about the same thing i think? i'd put the 4580 in there i believe. and yeah the cash is burning enough to upgrade the cpu, since slow rendering times is going to drive me nuts.

oh wow this post just above here is going to be so handy when I go to install, I've messed up enough reinstalls to know i need a list of steps. Thank you SO SO much stiganator!!!!

 

[Stiganator]

Check out the P5Q-E, if I recall correctly the E versions are revisions of the first and are generally better. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong???

One thing you might want to look at is that some Nvidia cards can be flashed to the quadro version of the card. You can get significant gains in viewport renders with the quadro drivers then. Though for your purposes I don't think it matters all that much.

 

[mumpay]

good call, i took your suggestion on both the mobo and graphics. i looked in to it and couldnt find anything about softmodding the 9800 just yet, but i can imagine it'll come out sooner or later. I did not like how that HD4850 overheats either.

the final lineup (thank you again all for your great suggestions!). the only huge deviation was the nine hundred mid tower after reading how good it is at keeping things cool. i do hope ya'll like.


Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Quad Core Processor (willing to pay the premium for faster render times)

Thermaltake / TMG i1 / Socket 775 / Copper Base / CPU Cooler (1.5 lbs)

ASUS P5Q-E ATX LGA775 P45 DDR2 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN eSATA 1394 Motherboard

Antec Nine Hundred Mid Tower Gamer Case 900 ATX 9 Drive Bay No PS Top USB2.0 1394 Audio

OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V Power Supply 100 - 240 V

2 x Mushkin SP PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-18 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel (8gb)

2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive

LG GH20NS10 Super Multi SATA Drive - 20x DVD±R, 8x DVD±RW, 12x DVD±R DL, Black (3 lbs)


XFX GeForce 9800 GTX Video Card - FREE Company of Heroes PC Game, 512MB DDR3, PCI Express 2.0, SLI Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, HDMI Support, Dual VGA Support (3.35 lbs)


final price after taxes and shipping: $1415

phew! now lets see how long shipping takes from vancouver, ha.

thank you all so much again! you guys are shockingly helpful, i cant thank you enough. ill let ya'll know when the system arrives and is up and running! Thanks!

 

[mumpay]

It had all arrived a few weeks ago, I was waiting on some software upgrades I had purchased seperately later on. Now everything's installed and it's working beautifully. It's running XP 64. It loads 3ds max in at most 1/4 the speed as my old computer, really probably much faster than that, even. It renders caustics at about 1/2 the speed at most, probably more like 1/4 the speed as the old one though (hard to remember exact minutes). A glass_phen (mental ray) teapot with caustics on, 2 light sources, and a simple blinn plane all on default settings takes about 2 to 4 minutes versus 15 to 20 I used to get.

I want to thank you all again for all your help, this is a GREAT forum full of really great people. Thank you so much! I can't wait for school in a month

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: mumpay
Hi all!

My friend and I are building a desktop for me, I'm going in to a 1 year program for 3D modelling and visual effects.

I would have LIKED a workstation card, but cost was an issue, and many reviews from real world users say they dont run into problems on the 9800 until they reach ridiculous polygon counts.

...

Are there some serious flaws you can see? swaps that might be a good idea? this will be low to nill gaming, just 3ds max work. I was figuring $2k max.

Vancouver Film School ?

i started with 3D in 1988. then, the expensive workstation cards were
a must. about $4000 each.

since then, i've had a variety of video cards, using gaming cards
(ATI X850XT, nVidia 7600, 8600) at home, and Dell workstations
with SCSI (expensive) and ATI FireGL (expensive) in jobs or
situations where my workstation was provided by someone else.

i've never found that the workstation cards were any faster than
their equivalent gaming cards (you can get some info. about the
GPU by looking at the heatsink, ATI & nVidia don't usually tell
customers "our expensive card uses the same GPU as the gaming
card you can buy for 1/5 the price".)

BUT - a driver issue can be a real pain in the tush.

i suggest going for a good video card (like the 9800GTX) and then
testing it on different 3D Max features (caustics (for modelling glass),
sub-surface scattering (helps simulate skin)), just basically exercising
the video card when you first get it.

then, if there is a problem, your maximum cost is a 15% re-stocking fee
(plus your time.)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=23
^ tech & Hardware forum at CGTalk, another CG forum. basically
people asking the same questions about video cards.