Building an apartment in a 12' x 28' space

[endscape]

Hey folks-

My grandfather is looking down the barrel at some very terminal cancer. He's got about 6 months to live, but that's neither here nor there. My grandmother has mentioned that she would like to not live in the house she shares with my grandfather once he is gone, and I cant really blame her. She doesn't want to sell it, as its being passed down to her only grandson (that would be me), and she would like it to stay in the family. My parents have a very large work shop (total dimensions are somewhere in the 12' x 96' iirc) with a single, separated bay at one end. Its right about 12' x 28'. My dad and I are planning on turning it into a small apartment.

We want to build it in two stages:

Stage 1: Use existing structure
- Small kitchenette (microwave, medium sized fridge, toaster oven) Possibly a small stove and sink if we can find something the right size and find the space for it.
- Small bathroom (toilet, sink, small shower)

Stage 2: Add 14' x 14' (or 14' x 28') addition
- Full sized kitchen, add a tub to the bathroom
- Back deck/ patio

Stage 2 will happen sometime next year more than likely. Sooner if finances allow.

Has anyone ever built an apartment that is both functional and SMALL? We are planning on basically making one wall basically all windows (it looks out over green space and a pond), which is also the south facing wall, so there will be plenty of light. I've been scanning Craigslist for cabinets and appliances, and have come up with some great stuff. I'm planning on experimenting with some home automation setups, as well as some custom LED lighting, but that's for another thread.

Anyone ever lived somewhere that small? I realize that lots of apartments are in the 300 square foot range, but they're usually slightly squarer. I'm doing some layouts in sketchup, I'll post them tomorrow.

Any advice would be appreciated. Or websites dealing with making the most of small spaces.

 

[sdifox]

err, why not just a bedroom? rest is available in the house no?

your problem is 12' wide.


where is the door? if in the middle of the whole length, maybe a pull down bed? then you can put kitchen on one side and bathroom in the other and middle is the living room/bedroom.

 

[bart1975]

err, why not just a bedroom? rest is available in the house no?

your problem is 12' wide.

Grandparents usually smell funny so they probably want her to have her own apartment.

 

[DrPizza]

Kitchen/dining room/living room: all one big area. Bedroom can probably be on the small size; ditto the bathroom - just large enough to be functional. Since it's your grandmother and not your teen-aged son, I'd recommend a tub (in case you were thinking of something like a corner shower.) Because there may easily come a point where sitting to bathe becomes a necessity. (Definitely ask your grandmother for her opinion on this one though.) The size, 12x28, is definitely going to be a challenge, depending on where doors are, but should be doable. The waste plumbing may very well be your biggest challenge - if the workshop is on a slab without waste plumbing already roughed in, have fun. I'm doing a very similar project - turning our garage into an apartment for our son. But, at roughly 650 square feet, I've got a bit more room. But, I've been waiting for months for my bro-in-law (plumber) to have free time to help tie into the septic line located 4 feet below the cement slab. I don't have the tools to cut through the concrete & rebar, etc.

 

[vi edit]

How tall are the ceilings? If you could build up a ramp instead of stairs then you could loft up a bedding/living area up there and leave more room below for kithen/bath.

 

[imported_noonedoes]

You might want to check out ikea for ideas. Last time i went to one of their stores, they had designs for small area living. You might get some ideas on what to do and where to put things. For example, this one looks around the same size

http://www.ikeafamilylive.com/stories/be-smart-with-your-small-space/explore

Hope that helps a little.

 

[skyking]

12x28 is plenty big enough for a nice place. What is the window/wall situation? It needs windows to work.
12'x8' bedroom-- 9' x 6'6" bath-- 12' x 11'6" kitchenette/sitting room combo.
Hallway is in front of bathroom, 3' x 6'6"
Wrap the cabinets along the bathroom common wall and along the side for 4'6".
30" reefer 24" counter 30" sink 24" counter to corner--30" range

 

[highland145]

12x28 is plenty big enough for a nice place. What is the window/wall situation? It needs windows to work.
12'x8' bedroom-- 9' x 6'6" bath-- 12' x 11'6" kitchenette/sitting room combo.
Hallway is in front of bathroom, 3' x 6'6"
Wrap the cabinets along the bathroom common wall and along the side for 4'6".
30" reefer 24" counter 30" sink 24" counter to corner--30" range

😛

 

[skyking]

Oh you go there Grandma! No pain, No pain!

 

[the DRIZZLE]

12x28 is plenty big enough for a nice place. What is the window/wall situation? It needs windows to work.
12'x8' bedroom-- 9' x 6'6" bath-- 12' x 11'6" kitchenette/sitting room combo.
Hallway is in front of bathroom, 3' x 6'6"
Wrap the cabinets along the bathroom common wall and along the side for 4'6".
30" reefer 24" counter 30" sink 24" counter to corner--30" range

I was going to suggest something like this. The trick is basically not having a hallway that wastes space. I live in 575 sq feet but my setup is very space inefficient compared to this.

 

[marvdmartian]

12 x 28 is basically just a studio apartment. Here's what I'd envision in a space like that:

Where the top part is the bedroom (10 x 12), short hallway going past the bathroom (6 x 9) and linen closet, bottom is the living/eating area. Set up that last area right, and your eventual addition can be a larger living/entertainment area.

Of course, it's difficult to plan exactly, without knowing where important things like doors and windows are located, but you can play with that idea a little bit. Depending on how old your grandma is, you might opt to do a walk-in shower stall the same size as a bath tub, with a fold-down seat. Remember to install niceties like grab bars in the bathroom, as she will likely eventually need them.

 

[Humpy]

Grandma's going to live in the garage?

Make her sell the house and get her into a real apartment. Save the money from remodeling her garage stall to send her on a cruise.

 

[endscape]

Kitchen/dining room/living room: all one big area. Bedroom can probably be on the small size; ditto the bathroom - just large enough to be functional.

That's the idea. Maximum living area, minimum bathroom/ bedroom. I was thinking about using a privacy screen versus a wall for the bedroom. Lets you open things up if you want to, or close them off if not.

Since it's your grandmother and not your teen-aged son, I'd recommend a tub (in case you were thinking of something like a corner shower.) Because there may easily come a point where sitting to bathe becomes a necessity. (Definitely ask your grandmother for her opinion on this one though.)

At this point she wants a shower. Stage II will have a walk in tub/ shower. We are lucky, since right now she is highly mobile (she's probably in better shape than 90% of ATOT), and prefers a shower. Even she admits that a tub would be nice in the future though, hence its inclusion in the next stage of things.

The size, 12x28, is definitely going to be a challenge, depending on where doors are, but should be doable. The waste plumbing may very well be your biggest challenge - if the workshop is on a slab without waste plumbing already roughed in, have fun.

Luckily between my father and I, we have all the tools needed to cut in the waste plumbing, so that's not an issue. I've seen some other plans where people put the bathroom on a 6" high platform, so they can get around messing with the concrete. Not an issue for us, thankfully.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow of the space, so everyone can get an idea of where we're putting the doors and windows.

I'm doing a very similar project - turning our garage into an apartment for our son. But, at roughly 650 square feet, I've got a bit more room. But, I've been waiting for months for my bro-in-law (plumber) to have free time to help tie into the septic line located 4 feet below the cement slab. I don't have the tools to cut through the concrete & rebar, etc.

You've got all kinds of space! My dad had some forethought when he put in our septic field, so its going to be easy to tie the apartment in. Thankfully, my dad is a jack of all trades when it comes to construction and plumbing, I'm just here to pound nails and handle the wiring.

Grandparents usually smell funny so they probably want her to have her own apartment.

Hahaha. The whole point of the apartment is to give her a certain amount of independence. She is close to my parents and younger sister, so she can have company and help when she needs it, but has privacy and her own space when she doesn't. There is also less space for her to clean and maintain. She has the option to move in WITH my parents, as there is room in their house, but she worries about imposing, and I think everyone would be happier if she has her own space.

err, why not just a bedroom? rest is available in the house no?

your problem is 12' wide.


where is the door? if in the middle of the whole length, maybe a pull down bed? then you can put kitchen on one side and bathroom in the other and middle is the living room/bedroom.

The 12' wide thing is what I struggle with. My first apartment was only slightly bigger, but it was much squarer in layout.

The bay is attached to the end of our shop, which is close to my parents house, but not connected. The door will probably be in the south east corner, but we can put it anywhere, really.

How tall are the ceilings? If you could build up a ramp instead of stairs then you could loft up a bedding/living area up there and leave more room below for kithen/bath.

Its got 10' ceilings (which help make the space seem bigger), but not enough room to make it multilevel I dont think.

You might want to check out ikea for ideas. Last time i went to one of their stores, they had designs for small area living. You might get some ideas on what to do and where to put things. For example, this one looks around the same size

http://www.ikeafamilylive.com/stories/be-smart-with-your-small-space/explore

Hope that helps a little.

That helps a lot! I'll probably end up building most of the shelving and furniture, but that is some great layout and design inspiration!

12x28 is plenty big enough for a nice place. What is the window/wall situation? It needs windows to work.
12'x8' bedroom-- 9' x 6'6" bath-- 12' x 11'6" kitchenette/sitting room combo.
Hallway is in front of bathroom, 3' x 6'6"
Wrap the cabinets along the bathroom common wall and along the side for 4'6".
30" reefer 24" counter 30" sink 24" counter to corner--30" range

It will have windows in spades. One end is going to be a VERY large picture window. The entire southern wall (which is on the 28' side of things) will be covered in windows, and there will be 2, probably 3 skylights.

12 x 28 is basically just a studio apartment. Here's what I'd envision in a space like that:

Where the top part is the bedroom (10 x 12), short hallway going past the bathroom (6 x 9) and linen closet, bottom is the living/eating area. Set up that last area right, and your eventual addition can be a larger living/entertainment area.

Of course, it's difficult to plan exactly, without knowing where important things like doors and windows are located, but you can play with that idea a little bit. Depending on how old your grandma is, you might opt to do a walk-in shower stall the same size as a bath tub, with a fold-down seat. Remember to install niceties like grab bars in the bathroom, as she will likely eventually need them.

I'm digging that layout. The only thing I was thinking is putting the bed/ bedroom behind a privacy screen versus an actual wall, so the space would seem bigger. Doors and windows are still up for debate, as nothing is set in stone. I'll post some pictures of the space as soon as I can. Stage 1 isn't going to involve a walk in stall, Stage II probably will. She is still very mobile, so I'm slightly less concerned about grab bars at this point

Grandma's going to live in the garage?

Make her sell the house and get her into a real apartment. Save the money from remodeling her garage stall to send her on a cruise.

The house is a multi generational family home, she wants it to stay in the family. Its not a garage, its a shop, and this particular bay will be totally sealed off, as well as sound proof so working in the shop doesn't disturb her.

And I'm reasonably sure she wouldn't go on a cruise if you paid her. I dont know about your grandparents, but when she doesn't want to do something, there is not a force on earth that can make her. She's old, crazy, and awesome. I'm lucky to have such amazing grandparents, since I only have them on one side!

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll try to get some pictures and rough layouts posted tomorrow.

 

[Vette73]

Might want to check to see if what you want to do is even legal.

Check to see what the permit for the "shop" says when it was pulled. Was it setup as a family dwelling or a "shop"?

When my dad built his business office/building on the same land as our house the inspector was looking for plumbing inside and out to make sure he knew he can not turn it into a livable place and made sure my dad knew that.

 

[endscape]

Might want to check to see if what you want to do is even legal.

Check to see what the permit for the "shop" says when it was pulled. Was it setup as a family dwelling or a "shop"?

When my dad built his business office/building on the same land as our house the inspector was looking for plumbing inside and out to make sure he knew he can not turn it into a livable place and made sure my dad knew that.

That's the first thing I thought of as well. It LOOKS like we're fine, but we have a call in to the county land use folks to make sure. I'll get more details from my father since I'm not entirely sure I understand how this is all playing out.

 

[Vette73]

That's the first thing I thought of as well. It LOOKS like we're fine, but we have a call in to the county land use folks to make sure. I'll get more details from my father since I'm not entirely sure I understand how this is all playing out.

Make sure if they say its ok to get that in writing!!! One inspector/person can say yes then someone replaces them and all of a sudden you have to rip everything out.

Where are you at?