Building a wish-list computer

[Medea]

I recently came into some money which is timely because I need to replace one of my computers. I'm not going to build this one (using ABS to build it). I am not concerned about cost - within reason...

I went to ABS's site, and these are the components I selected:

- Cooler Master Wave Master 10-Bay all-aluminum mid-tower case
- Antec 480W power supply
- ASUS mobo - SK8N nForce3 pro150
- AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 1MB L2 Cache
- Thermaltake Silent Boost K8 Copper Heatsink & Fan
- 2 Corsair XMS Series 512MB PC3200 DDR 184-pin EEC registered
- Sapphire Radeon X800XT video card 256MB DDR 256-bit DVI/TV-Out 8X AGP
- 2 WD Digital Raptor 74GB SATA 10000 RPM 8MB Cache hard drives
- Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 XS 7.1 with 1394
- DVD/SONY 16X
- NEC 8X DVD+RW/-RW
- Floppy drive
- Integrated network controller
- modem
- D-link DUB-H4 USB 2.0 4-port hub

So, what do you think?

 

[Medea]

Bump for the edit..

 

[Markfw]

First, isn;t there an nforce3 250 motherboard out there somewhere ? And you can;t get an x800xt anywhere I could find (this is in stock to ship) Whats the budget ? SCSI eats raptors for lunch....

 

[Tostada]

Why are you getting a server board?

If you're not concerned about cost, get a quieter Enermax Noisetaker PSU, an nForce3 250GB motherboard, Mushkin CL 2-2-2 RAM, and get a pair of NEC drives instead of one DVD-RW and one DVD-ROM (programs like RecordNow MAX can burn two DVD's at once then).

 

[Jojo7]

If you're already spending that much money, why not go with a new socket 939 cpu/motherboard? If you do go with s939, ditch that registered memory.

Does abs not offer them?

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Jojo7
If you're already spending that much money, why not go with a new socket 939 cpu/motherboard? If you do go with s939, ditch that registered memory.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say

 

[Medea]

And you can;t get an x800xt anywhere I could find (this is in stock to ship)
It was one of the options in configuring one of their desktops.

Whats the budget ?
My budget? No real cap - as long as I'm 100% happy with it.

SCSI eats raptors for lunch....
Good suggestion.

why not go with a new socket 939 cpu/motherboard? If you do go with s939, ditch that registered memory.
Okay.

If you're not concerned about cost, get a quieter Enermax Noisetaker PSU, an nForce3 250GB motherboard, Mushkin CL 2-2-2 RAM, and get a pair of NEC drives instead of one DVD-RW and one DVD-ROM (programs like RecordNow MAX can burn two DVD's at once then).
OK on the psu. I need to read up on the NEC drives but sounds good to me.

Thx for the feedback. Any other suggestions?

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

The SCSI's don't eat the raptors for lunch, unless your get the 15000 rpm screamers, for single user operations. SCSI needs lots of bandwidth so make sure you have a 64bit PCI-X 133 slot for an add in card or a motherboard with a native 320 controller and large link to the bridges. You usually only get those specs on server motherboards. Putting in PCI 32bit 33 SCSI controller and adding the 15000 rpm hardrives would saturate the pci bus in about half a second.

 

[Medea]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
The SCSI's don't eat the raptors for lunch, unless your get the 15000 rpm screamers, for single user operations. SCSI needs lots of bandwidth so make sure you have a 64bit PCI-X 133 slot for an add in card or a motherboard with a native 320 controller and large link to the bridges. You usually only get those specs on server motherboards. Putting in PCI 32bit 33 SCSI controller and adding the 15000 rpm hardrives would saturate the pci bus in about half a second.

- Thx michaelpatrick33 for the info. I'll stick w/the raptors.

Originally posted by: Tostada
Why are you getting a server board?

If you're not concerned about cost, get a quieter Enermax Noisetaker PSU, an nForce3 250GB motherboard, Mushkin CL 2-2-2 RAM, and get a pair of NEC drives instead of one DVD-RW and one DVD-ROM (programs like RecordNow MAX can burn two DVD's at once then).

- Tostada, those NEC drives look really sweet.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
The SCSI's don't eat the raptors for lunch, unless your get the 15000 rpm screamers, for single user operations. SCSI needs lots of bandwidth so make sure you have a 64bit PCI-X 133 slot for an add in card or a motherboard with a native 320 controller and large link to the bridges. You usually only get those specs on server motherboards. Putting in PCI 32bit 33 SCSI controller and adding the 15000 rpm hardrives would saturate the pci bus in about half a second.

SCSI may use bandwidth, but a single 15k SCSI 74 gig drive using a SCSI card on a 32 bit slot will still eat that raptor for lunch. The raptor has 4.5 ms seek, the 15k drives usually 3.3 ms. The transfer rate, even maxing the bus for both, the SCSI will win due to command queing that the SATA controller's of today don't support.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
The SCSI's don't eat the raptors for lunch, unless your get the 15000 rpm screamers, for single user operations. SCSI needs lots of bandwidth so make sure you have a 64bit PCI-X 133 slot for an add in card or a motherboard with a native 320 controller and large link to the bridges. You usually only get those specs on server motherboards. Putting in PCI 32bit 33 SCSI controller and adding the 15000 rpm hardrives would saturate the pci bus in about half a second.

SCSI may use bandwidth, but a single 15k SCSI 74 gig drive using a SCSI card on a 32 bit slot will still eat that raptor for lunch. The raptor has 4.5 ms seek, the 15k drives usually 3.3 ms. The transfer rate, even maxing the bus for both, the SCSI will win due to command queing that the SATA controller's of today don't support.

Absolutely! The new Raptors are very nice drives and fast. However, even a new Raptor cannot keep up with a 15K rpm drive. Rotational speed is 33% faster, seek time is about 1/3rd lower and SCSI has Command Queuing, which SATA still doesn't have.

AFA CPU usage goes, it's a non-issue. I have a 64-bit, 66MHz card that's being choked right now by the 32-bit, 33MHz slot it's in. Markfw900 is in the same predicament as I am. Neither one of us has any issues with "the SCSI card taking up all the resources" or any other such nonsense.

I have 2 x 15K rpm drives, (Fujitsu MAS-series)RAID0 and they are quieter than the single 120GB WD SE IDE drive that's also in that case!


Now, depending on what Medea will be doing w/his new rig, and of course, how much he wants to spend...that will determine which route he'll go, storage-wise.

I can tell you this, two, 15K or 10K rpm SCSI drives on a 64-bit slot will spank silly any on board SATA configuration you can come up with.

 

[Illissius]

I'm too lazy to be confined by ABS's or whoever's configurator, so get whatever is closest to one of these:

Single CPU:
Athlon 64 3400+ 2.4GHz 512K
Zalman CNPS7000A-(Al)Cu
MSI K8N Neo Platinum / Epox 8KDA3+ (though w/o overclocking the motherboard matters less)
1GB PC3200 (Corsair 3200XL is the fastest, but it's double the price and only a few percent faster than value RAM)
Radeon X800XT/PE or GeForce 6800GT/U
1x 74GB Raptor + additional storage drive (the 200GB Seagate is nice)
Antec 450W+
Case of choice - I like the Lian-Li PC-V1000 personally

Dual CPU:
2x Opteron 250
2x whatever HSF fits on the motherboard, optimally Zalman CNPS7000A-(Al)Cu, or Thermalright SLK948U + quiet fan
IWill DK8N (or Tyan Thunder K8W if it doesn't come out soon, but you'll have to use a GeForce with it as Radeons have compatibility issues)
4x 512MB or 1GB PC3200 ECC/Reg (Crucial, or Corsair low-latency stuff if you must)
Radeon X800XT PE or GeForce 6800U/UE
[This space left intentionally blank to go completely berzerk with SCSI stuff in]
Biggest PSU you can find - Antec 550W, PCP&C 510W, or whatever
Full tower case of choice - Lian-Li PC-V2000

Personally, if you're going all out on drives and SCSI, you might as well go all the way and get the dually.
Get the first option if you want the fastest performance without spending double or more on marginal performance gains and/or doubling things; get the second if you want the fastest rig possible that is affordable /at all/.

 

[sharkeeper]

The raptor is fine if you don't plan to multi task too much.

In a SUMT scenario, the raptor loses ground very quickly to a third genny 15k class drive connected to a dumb controller.

Factor in an intelligent controller, and the tides are turned significantly. This brings the system to a different level altogether. If you have dual cpu's this is even realised further.

Cheers!

 

[Markfw]

exactly shuttleteam and MichaelD !

Now in my previous post, I didn't chime in with my input as to my wish-list. Below is that I have coming thursday, and I think most would agree as to it being a good system:

Dual Opteron 248's (250's were too much money, $500 more for not much increase)
Tyan Thunder K8 with 64-bit PCI-X slots
4x512 meg registered PC3200 (didn;t need 4 gig memory. I can add 4 gig more easily if I need to)
X800pro video card (that fastest I could get confirmed shipping on in the next 7 days, otherwise would have been X800XT)
Lian Li V2100B full tower case
Antec 550 watt EPS PSU (the Tyan requires an EPS PSU)

I will bu using from my current setup
Audigy 2
80 gig and 200 gig and 160 gig IDE
120 gig and 250 gig SATA
5x10k rpm 18.4 gig SCSI Seagate Cheetah in raid0 on a LSI SCSI megaraid 1650 128 meg cache smart controller 64-bit slot 66 mhz.
Compaq DLT700 35/70 tape backup
Tektronix Phaser 850 solid ink network printer.

Enjoy !!!

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
exactly shuttleteam and MichaelD !

Now in my previous post, I didn't chime in with my input as to my wish-list. Below is that I have coming thursday, and I think most would agree as to it being a good system:

Dual Opteron 248's (250's were too much money, $500 more for not much increase)
Tyan Thunder K8 with 64-bit PCI-X slots
4x512 meg registered PC3200 (didn;t need 4 gig memory. I can add 4 gig more easily if I need to)
X800pro video card (that fastest I could get confirmed shipping on in the next 7 days, otherwise would have been X800XT)
Lian Li V2100B full tower case
Antec 550 watt EPS PSU (the Tyan requires an EPS PSU)

I will bu using from my current setup
Audigy 2
80 gig and 200 gig and 160 gig IDE
120 gig and 250 gig SATA
5x10k rpm 18.4 gig SCSI Seagate Cheetah in raid0 on a LSI SCSI megaraid 1650 128 meg cache smart controller 64-bit slot 66 mhz.
Compaq DLT700 35/70 tape backup
Tektronix Phaser 850 solid ink network printer.

Enjoy !!!

/drools all over Mark's post

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
exactly shuttleteam and MichaelD !

Now in my previous post, I didn't chime in with my input as to my wish-list. Below is that I have coming thursday, and I think most would agree as to it being a good system:

Dual Opteron 248's (250's were too much money, $500 more for not much increase)
Tyan Thunder K8 with 64-bit PCI-X slots
4x512 meg registered PC3200 (didn;t need 4 gig memory. I can add 4 gig more easily if I need to)
X800pro video card (that fastest I could get confirmed shipping on in the next 7 days, otherwise would have been X800XT)
Lian Li V2100B full tower case
Antec 550 watt EPS PSU (the Tyan requires an EPS PSU)

I will bu using from my current setup
Audigy 2
80 gig and 200 gig and 160 gig IDE
120 gig and 250 gig SATA
5x10k rpm 18.4 gig SCSI Seagate Cheetah in raid0 on a LSI SCSI megaraid 1650 128 meg cache smart controller 64-bit slot 66 mhz.
Compaq DLT700 35/70 tape backup
Tektronix Phaser 850 solid ink network printer.

Enjoy !!!

How much was it?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Hey, nice comp, but why go with the SK8N (which isnt a server board!) Also, the nForce 250s arent very good, as Via still have the Athlon 64 crown of performance and features. Go with the 939 pin FX-53, non-registered memory. Go with the Asus A8V, which is the Via chipset for the 939 pin procs, and comes with a wireless 801.11B/G protocol card. Gotta love those raptors in Raid level 0!!

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
5x10k rpm 18.4 gig SCSI Seagate Cheetah in raid0 ...

Five drives that are each over 50 dB? Do the neighbors complain about the noise? You spent so much on that system; why wouldn't you get better drives?

Seagate hasn't made any 18.4G 10K drives in three years. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt (you might be using the smaller model of the Cheetah 36XL), it would be hard to justify the electricity it costs to run that RAID. In single-drive performance, a Raptor 74 totally blows away a Cheetah 36XL by a factor of two, and I hope by now we've all seen that RAID doesn't do much for a gaming system. Even a nice SCSI RAID like that isn't going to make up for the Raptor being 2X faster.

If you actually think your RAID performs better in a non-server environment than just getting a Raptor 74, many of us would be interested in seeing benchmarks, because that kind of info would prove StorageReview and AT wrong.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Tostada

Five drives that are each over 50 dB? Do the neighbors complain about the noise? You spent so much on that system; why wouldn't you get better drives?
.

Well, that's only about 56dB plus change. That's about like a coffee machine.

 

[Tostada]

OK, but I'd still just love to hear the justification for spending $1350 on two Opterons, $400 on a video card, and sticking with 3-year-old hard drives...

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Tostada
OK, but I'd still just love to hear the justification for spending $1350 on two Opterons, $400 on a video card, and sticking with 3-year-old hard drives...

Maybe he got a good deal? I dunno.

 

[sharkeeper]

Seagate hasn't made any 18.4G 10K drives in three years. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt (you might be using the smaller model of the Cheetah 36XL), it would be hard to justify the electricity it costs to run that RAID. In single-drive performance, a Raptor 74 totally blows away a Cheetah 36XL by a factor of two, and I hope by now we've all seen that RAID doesn't do much for a gaming system. Even a nice SCSI RAID like that isn't going to make up for the Raptor being 2X faster.

If you actually think your RAID performs better in a non-server environment than just getting a Raptor 74, many of us would be interested in seeing benchmarks, because that kind of info would prove StorageReview and AT wrong.

SR benchmarks drives on dumb controllers only. The difference is huge. AT has performed tests with ATA drives only.

Cheers!

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Tostada
OK, but I'd still just love to hear the justification for spending $1350 on two Opterons, $400 on a video card, and sticking with 3-year-old hard drives...

I have 5 other drives that are less than one year old. The SCSI array is the 6th drive. If it doesn;t speed up a little, then I will get some 15k drives, and if my 160 controller chokes those then I will buy a new one of those. I spent $3,400 just on this upgrade, and cashed in one of my roth IRA's to do it (putting my son thru college is spendy along with my RX-8). And you want me to spend another $900 on the controller, and at least another $1000 orcer that to upgrade just the SCSI array ? Everything in its time..... First I want to see what a 64-bit 66 mhz slot does to my existing array (get them for $60 each on ebay, and $172 for the controller)