Building a system for Solidworks/Autocad

[goobernoodles]

Anyone know if Solidworks would benefit from a separate scratch-disk?

 

[Davidh373]

Anyone know if Solidworks would benefit from a separate scratch-disk?

Not especially. Since the program only creates one file and not many (like video editing applications) I would not think it would benefit all that much from a "scratch" disk.

 

[mfenn]

Have you ever used SolidWorks? Unigraphics? IDEAS? CATIA?

This is NOT about how many polygons/second the card can handle. It's about support!!!

If the OP puts a gaming card in there, loads up SolidWorks and it crashes he has to call SolidWorks for support. When they hear he doesn't have a Quadro card in there, ... the only thing he's gonna hear is 'click'.

Got it?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

polygons/ second?...



He has to call the application for support?! I thought Autodesk handled support for the application... .

Well, considering that Autodesk doesn't make Solidworks (that's Dassault Systemes), I seriously doubt they would help him!

David, what you don't seem to be grasping here is that some people (especially people doing this professionally) don't want to waste time Googling for answers. When the program crashes, they call the vendor. If you're not working on supported hardware, the vendor isn't going to help you.

I deal with this shit at my day job. I've learned that if the vendor doesn't want to help you, then you're going to have one very pissed engineer!

 

[yh125d]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:



Well, considering that Autodesk doesn't make Solidworks (that's Dassault Systemes), I seriously doubt they would help him!

David, what you don't seem to be grasping here is that some people (especially people doing this professionally) don't want to waste time Googling for answers. When the program crashes, they call the vendor. If you're not working on supported hardware, the vendor isn't going to help you.

I deal with this shit at my day job. I've learned that if the vendor doesn't want to help you, then you're going to have one very pissed engineer!

How often do you really have problems you cant sort out yourself? I haven't had any particular issues with my programs that couldn't be sorted out by asking one of the autocad whiz's in the office.

 

[mfenn]

How often do you really have problems you cant sort out yourself? I haven't had any particular issues with my programs that couldn't be sorted out by asking one of the autocad whiz's in the office.

My guys are researchers, so they tend to push the limits of what can be done. You'd be surprised how many times they will find a corner case that has to be fixed with a code change.

 

[Nab]

I've been reading the thread throughout the day, but my internet has been going in and out because of weather issues here in the southeast so I will have to take some time to thoroughly think this through.

It seems that I have a decent enough system so far in the thread. It will run Solidworks at a decent speed (I understand it won't be blazing fast). I do not know what specifically his drawings are like (I'm no mechanical/design engineer---just an Industrial (read:Imaginary) Engineer).

Furthermore, I understand that the budget is not typical of a CAD (not CoD =P) system, and I thank all of you for your input.

As far as the graphics card there seems to be two choices:

1) Cheap quadro (currently listed) = overpriced for the performance but recommended

2) Gamer card = cheaper than quadro, will give equal or better performance, might have trouble if need support

Do I have that right?

 

[Nab]

I'm going to ask him to get his work computer specs.

I should've done this to begin with, but I have a feeling it'll make me cry....

Be back tomorrow with details.

 

[Davidh373]

As far as the graphics card there seems to be two choices:

1) Cheap quadro (currently listed) = overpriced for the performance but recommended

2) Gamer card = cheaper than quadro, will give equal or better performance, might have trouble if need support

Yes. I am sorry if I felt out your budget and system like your friend was an amateur. If he really does make money at this and he is a professional then by all means get the Quadro.

Do I have that right?

Yes.

David, what you don't seem to be grasping here is that some people (especially people doing this professionally) don't want to waste time Googling for answers. When the program crashes, they call the vendor. If you're not working on supported hardware, the vendor isn't going to help you.

I get that, but the way I felt out the system was that this guy suddenly wanted to dabble with CAD. I mean, lets face it, an Athlon II X4 for a CAD build? I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but you just don't see this kind of thing on a day to day basis. You see the 980Xs, the 12GB+ RAM, the double 8 core Xeon boards. If he had had the budget for that I would have certainly pushed for a Quadro.

I mean, lets think through this logic here. This guy is going to put together a sub $600 system to run a $4k app? To spend that much on a piece of software and not back it up with at least average hardware isn't like WAAY out there, but it is a bit odd don't you think?

 

[Modelworks]

A few words about graphics cards and professional applications. I've been in the field for over 20 years since we used EGA card for graphics.

The #1 thing that a certified card buys you is support. There are 3 ways companies list video cards for applications.

Certified - They have used the exact card, with a specific driver version and run it through quality task to make sure it does exactly what it is supposed to do.

Recommended - They haven't tested that exact card, but based on the certified cards they have tested , this card being the same chip set and having similar drivers available it should work .

Compatible - The card uses drivers that run the same graphics api that the application uses so it should work. It hasn't been tested and they will not guarantee it will not have have problems, but chances are it will be fine.


Gaming cards almost always fall under the compatible category. In my experience most of the time the gaming cards work fine. The problem is that gaming card drivers are targeted at game and they can change from version to version without the driver creator considering professional applications. However, if you find a driver version that works well with the application then there is no reason to upgrade.


autodesk has become a bit more open lately in handling tech support calls that use gaming quality cards. In the past they wouldn't even talk to you if you didn't use certified hardware. Now they know which driver versions seem to work best for most users and which ones cause problems and will often suggest to install that version rather than just telling the customer to get certified hardware.

 

[mfenn]

I get that, but the way I felt out the system was that this guy suddenly wanted to dabble with CAD. I mean, lets face it, an Athlon II X4 for a CAD build? I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but you just don't see this kind of thing on a day to day basis. You see the 980Xs, the 12GB+ RAM, the double 8 core Xeon boards. If he had had the budget for that I would have certainly pushed for a Quadro.

I mean, lets think through this logic here. This guy is going to put together a sub $600 system to run a $4k app? To spend that much on a piece of software and not back it up with at least average hardware isn't like WAAY out there, but it is a bit odd don't you think?

Yeah, I agree that the budget is quite low overall. Maybe work is paying for the software license? In that case, I wonder why they aren't buying him a machine to use at home as well.

 

[yh125d]

Yes.



I get that, but the way I felt out the system was that this guy suddenly wanted to dabble with CAD. I mean, lets face it, an Athlon II X4 for a CAD build? I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but you just don't see this kind of thing on a day to day basis. You see the 980Xs, the 12GB+ RAM, the double 8 core Xeon boards. If he had had the budget for that I would have certainly pushed for a Quadro.

I mean, lets think through this logic here. This guy is going to put together a sub $600 system to run a $4k app? To spend that much on a piece of software and not back it up with at least average hardware isn't like WAAY out there, but it is a bit odd don't you think?

Dont make too many assumptions about how much power the guy really needs. I work 3D with an AM2 athlon X2 4400 and 3gb of ram. And I work with large models (up to 30mb or so) and don't really have much issue. And the other guys in the office are on Pentium D 820's. You don't necessarily need that much.

 

[Jeff7]

Does Solidworks support multiple cores? At work, I use Pro/Engineer Wildfire 4 on a 3GHz dual dual-core Xeon system. Problem is, Pro/E doesn't do multithreading yet. (From what I've read, Wildfire 5 doesn't have multi-core support either). So, it can't make use of more than 1 core. The benefit for that program would be to have one insanely fast core. (Though I like having multiple cores available, that way one can get tied up doing something processing-intensive, while the other(s) can be doing something else.)

Videocard: Well, it's got some old Quadro variant, but only 128MB of video memory. (I'll see if I can get more detailed specs tomorrow, if I remember.) I used the student version of Pro/E on my home system, which uses all the same software, just with some special tags woven into the saved files, and with a GT7600 256MB videocard and a E6600 C2D processor, it performed so much better than the Xeon system. Very smooth 3D motion and high framerate, even with fairly complex models. ("Fairly complex" is quite subjective, of course.)
So seeing as how I've never really seen an up-to-date Quadro card vs a regular videocard of a comparable era, I can't really comment much on the benefits of a genuine CAD-grade card.


I'll have to get it loaded on the PC I've got now for comparison. (i5 750 with an HD5850 1GB videocard.)
This of course assumes that Pro/E will install and run on 64-bit Win7.:hmm:


Edit, System info:
Graphics: Quadro FX1300 (NV38)
PCI-e x16
128MB RAM
GPU: 350MHz
Memory: 550MHz effective
Pro/E uses OpenGL for 3D graphics


CPU: Two 3.00GHz Xeon, Nocona
800MHz effective bus speed.
Looks like this Xeon was released in June of 2004.
CPU-Z says there's 1 core per CPU, but 2 threads, so I guess that's the Hyperthreading at work. So I guess I've only got a plain dual-processor system, and not a dual core dual-processor system. Oh well.
In any case, Pro/E can only top out at 25% in Task Manager, regardless of what it's doing.

 

[Davidh373]

Does Solidworks support multiple cores?

yes, for export rendering anyway. I don't know about viewport.

 

[mfenn]

Does Solidworks support multiple cores? At work, I use Pro/Engineer Wildfire 4 on a 3GHz dual dual-core Xeon system. Problem is, Pro/E doesn't do multithreading yet. (From what I've read, Wildfire 5 doesn't have multi-core support either). So, it can't make use of more than 1 core. The benefit for that program would be to have one insanely fast core. (Though I like having multiple cores available, that way one can get tied up doing something processing-intensive, while the other(s) can be doing something else.)

Videocard: Well, it's got some old Quadro variant, but only 128MB of video memory. (I'll see if I can get more detailed specs tomorrow, if I remember.) I used the student version of Pro/E on my home system, which uses all the same software, just with some special tags woven into the saved files, and with a GT7600 256MB videocard and a E6600 C2D processor, it performed so much better than the Xeon system. Very smooth 3D motion and high framerate, even with fairly complex models. ("Fairly complex" is quite subjective, of course.)
So seeing as how I've never really seen an up-to-date Quadro card vs a regular videocard of a comparable era, I can't really comment much on the benefits of a genuine CAD-grade card.


I'll have to get it loaded on the PC I've got now for comparison. (i5 750 with an HD5850 1GB videocard.)
This of course assumes that Pro/E will install and run on 64-bit Win7.:hmm:


Edit, System info:
Graphics: Quadro FX1300 (NV38)
PCI-e x16
128MB RAM
GPU: 350MHz
Memory: 550MHz effective
Pro/E uses OpenGL for 3D graphics


CPU: Two 3.00GHz Xeon, Nocona
800MHz effective bus speed.
Looks like this Xeon was released in June of 2004.
CPU-Z says there's 1 core per CPU, but 2 threads, so I guess that's the Hyperthreading at work. So I guess I've only got a plain dual-processor system, and not a dual core dual-processor system. Oh well.
In any case, Pro/E can only top out at 25% in Task Manager, regardless of what it's doing.

Wow dude, that's just sad. I can't believe that any shop that had actual money riding on it's engineer's productivity would still be using Pentium 4 based Xeons.

 

[yh125d]

Wow dude, that's just sad. I can't believe that any shop that had actual money riding on it's engineer's productivity would still be using Pentium 4 based Xeons.

X2 4400/3gb RAM/FX1500 here, and I'm plenty productive

 

[mfenn]

X2 4400/3gb RAM/FX1500 here, and I'm plenty productive

And your system is about twice as fast as Jeff's.

 

[yh125d]

And your system is about twice as fast as Jeff's.

Well, not really. I can't get autocad to go over 50% total utilization

 

[Jeff7]

Wow dude, that's just sad. I can't believe that any shop that had actual money riding on it's engineer's productivity would still be using Pentium 4 based Xeons.

Look, I had to keep on someone for 3 weeks to get approval for me to get a super-pricey fancy mouse, costing all of $60. :awe: They're acclimated to mice that cost $5, or come included with a system. (And a mouse with more than two buttons? My god, that's some incredibly crazily-advanced stuff!) But then, I also seem to be one of the few who has more than two or three windows open at a time.
Oh, and the engineering office even has a working printer this year.
Yeah, we're just rolling around in money.:\
Ye olde-fashioned technolgie.

Mine is also one of the most powerful systems in the building, perhaps with the exception of the network server.

It does alright though. The models I have to work with don't really bog the system down too terribly much...at least if I turn down the detail level a bit on some of the more complex ones.



Edit: I just installed Pro-E WF3 (my old student license) on my home system. Holy hell it loads quick....and I put it on my RAID 5 setup, not my SSD. (Running low on space on the latter.)

I cranked up the detail level, and threw together a shape with a large curvy sweep, with about 500 patterned features, which were also heavy on circular arcs and and splines. That was finally enough to start to bog it down.
I'll have to try something like this on the work PC, and see how it fares.

 

[Davidh373]

Edit: I just installed Pro-E WF3 (my old student license) on my home system. Holy hell it loads quick....and I put it on my RAID 5 setup, not my SSD. (Running low on space on the latter.)

yeah... a newer system would run it pretty snappy.

I cranked up the detail level, and threw together a shape with a large curvy sweep, with about 500 patterned features, which were also heavy on circular arcs and and splines. That was finally enough to start to bog it down.
I'll have to try something like this on the work PC, and see how it fares.

lol, I doubt you'll get past turning the detail settings up, that's a really old system there.

 

[mfenn]

Well, not really. I can't get autocad to go over 50% total utilization

That's probably because it's only using 1 thread. Your CPU is a dual-core. 1 of your cores is still about twice as fast as 1 of Jeff's cores.

 

[yh125d]

That's probably because it's only using 1 thread. Your CPU is a dual-core. 1 of your cores is still about twice as fast as 1 of Jeff's cores.

No, its making two threads, but just not going over 50% total. It'll be like 83% first core and 17% second, or like 67/33, etc

 

[Nab]

hello everyone!

Sorry for the delay in getting additional information. So, I talked to him and he said that he doesn't work on big assemblies--more on parts or small systems or something. The computer he uses at work:

core 2 duo E4600 @ 2.4ghz
4gb ram
Intel(R) Q33 Express Chipset


So I am thinking that the low end quadro will be more than enough for his uses. Although, I may test out onboard first and see how it is, then order a video card later.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[mfenn]

hello everyone!

Sorry for the delay in getting additional information. So, I talked to him and he said that he doesn't work on big assemblies--more on parts or small systems or something. The computer he uses at work:

core 2 duo E4600 @ 2.4ghz
4gb ram
Intel(R) Q33 Express Chipset


So I am thinking that the low end quadro will be more than enough for his uses. Although, I may test out onboard first and see how it is, then order a video card later.

Thanks for all the help!

If he's happy with a E4600, then an Athlon II X4 should be fine. The Athlon II's are pretty close to the Core 2s on a clock-for-clock basis and the extra cores and clockspeed will really help.

 

[Davidh373]

So I am thinking that the low end quadro will be more than enough for his uses. Although, I may test out onboard first and see how it is, then order a video card later.

sure sure.

 

[andrews_aaedu]

Hi all,

I'm kind of lost here. I am a graduate architecture student. I just got a course description and we will be using the following software this semester:

3d Studio Max 2011 (with Vray v2.0)
Autocad 2011
Rhino 4.0
CS5 (photoshop, illustrator, premiere intensive)

I have purchased a HP Pavilion Elite HPE-570t

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 quad-core processor with Turbo-Boost [up to 3.8GHz, 8MB cache]
8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs]
1GB ATI Radeon HD 5450 [DVI, HDMI, VGA adapter]

The graphics card seems like it should be inadequate but have not tried it yet. Are there any gaming (specifically, since I need to keep my costs down) cards that would work well with the software listed? Thanks