Building a Server... Opinions wanted

[misle]

I'm building a server for work. We will be using the server for storing lots of large digital images. We will probably be using a digital asset database software title like Cumulus.

So I need a server that will:
Be able to support 20 users (simultaneously) plus possible web access
Fast! Stable!

Well that's about it. I'm thinking:
Pentium 4 Xeon 2.4
1 GB of Ram
WD 120 GB "Special Edition" HDD x4 (or 5)
Adaptec 2400A Raid controller w/ RAID 5
CD-Burner

What do you think?!? I need recommendations for Motherboards!

Spending limit is around $2400

Thanks!
-Matt

 

[cpals]

Is SCSI too expensive for you? I'm not sure what the going price of it is.

 

[MichaelD]

Being that he's going with RAID5, on a REAL raid card, and his budget ceiling is about $2,400, I don't think the additional expense of SCSI is necessary or doable.

A RAID5 array should be plenty fast and offer redundancy in the event of drive failure.

 

[misle]

We shoot and keep about 5,000 pics per year. At 20-30 MB each, that gets pretty big, pretty quick and I think SCSI would be too expensive. Plus I can get pretty quick high capacity IDE drives at cheap prices. I plan on using a Raid controller to help speed things up.

BTW, I plan on purchasing the vast majority of this stuff from Newegg.

 

[mechBgon]

Hmm, well it's not going to be what you want to hear, but don't forget a tape backup drive, a good UPS and a gigabit switch. RAID5 and Xeons behind a 100Mbit network connection is like a Ferrari on ice. Nothing's going anywhere faster than 12.5 megabytes per second on a 100Mbit network connection.

My laundry list would be

APC SmartUPS Pro 750XL
Quantum DLT1 tape drive
Netgear 24-port 10/100/1000 unmanaged switch (specs)
Intel Pro/1000MT NICs for the desktop systems
Cat5e network cabling

Full-tower Chieftec/Antec-style case (direct fan cooling of up to six hard drives, with six 5.25" bays for optical drives, tape drive, and more drives in coolers)
High-quality power supply as appropriate to your motherboard
Motherboard/CPU/RAM, hopefully with onboard gigabit Ethernet and 64-bit PCI or PCI-X slots
and if it were me, I'd recommend SCSI drives for their high reliability, high I/O performance and expandability.

If you're not going to have a fast network connection then I doubt your users could tell the difference between a 1GHz Duron and a 3.06GHz dual Xeon, from the other side of a 100Mbit connection. Don't go overboard on the wrong stuff

 

[mechBgon]

Oh, and several people will tell you to just buy a Dell before it's all over I'd rather build, but Dell does have a lot of buying power.

 

[misle]

mechBgon: Thanks for the reply.

Let me use your list to answer some questions.
APC SmartUPS Pro 750XL - No real need for this. We have our own Power Plant on Campus and I cannot remember the last time we had a power outage (I've been here 3 years). Plus, if the power did go out, it's really not a big deal. We are just storing images.
Quantum DLT1 tape drive - Would be nice, but out of the budget. Maybe down the line. Right now it will be backed up by the RAID system.
Netgear 24-port 10/100/1000 - We will be plugged directly into the backbone of the University's network.
Intel Pro/1000MT NICs - All mac office. Intel doesn't make Mac drivers.
Cat5e network cabling - Check!

Thanks!

BTW, I need Motherboard recommendations!

 

[Need4Speed]

have you checked dell

couldn't resist.....

 

[misle]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Oh, and several people will tell you to just buy a Dell before it's all over I'd rather build, but Dell does have a lot of buying power.

First thing I did was check with Dell. But I think I can get a better value by building. Of course if someone wants to link me to a Dell machine within my price range, I'll be happy to look.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Oh, and several people will tell you to just buy a Dell before it's all over I'd rather build, but Dell does have a lot of buying power.

building is fun, but this is a business and who's ass will be on the line when the server crashes.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Oh, and several people will tell you to just buy a Dell before it's all over I'd rather build, but Dell does have a lot of buying power.

building is fun, but this is a business and who's ass will be on the line when the server crashes.

Exactly. And exactly why you don't want to leave out the tape drive or a good UPS, too. If the server is physically stolen from your building, or a pipe bursts and hoses your server, or the building burns down, you'll be a hero when you walk across the street and pull that backup tape out of a safe-deposit box at the bank. Build it right (or buy it right), there are peoples' livelihoods riding on it.


edit: RAID isn't backup, unless you can magically recover an accidentally-deleted file off of a RAID array.

 

[sharkeeper]

Exactly. And exactly why you don't want to leave out the tape drive or a good UPS, too. If the server is physically stolen from your building, or a pipe bursts and hoses your server, or the building burns down, you'll be a hero when you walk across the street and pull that backup tape out of a safe-deposit box at the bank. Build it right (or buy it right), there are peoples' livelihoods riding on it.

Just make SURE the backups are GOOD and people are checking this! This happened with one of my clients and the guy was bragging about having the backup tape. (their office was broken into and the server, printer, fax machine and three notebooks were STOLEN!) He had the backup tape(s), was rotating them and everything. Too bad he didn't actually check the backups because the program couldn't write squat to the tapes with the write protect tab flipped over on lock! :Q :Q :Q

If he had a tail, it would have been hauled down so low it would've smacked him in the nuts.

-DAK-

 

[misle]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

edit: RAID isn't backup, unless you can magically recover an accidentally-deleted file off of a RAID array.

I know, but we don't have a budget for a tape drive. (University of Missouri has had huge withholding from the state government. About 64 Million dollars.) Plus no one ever deletes anything. You should see some to the crap on our FTP server. I have to send out monthly emails telling people to clean up the FTP server and their backups. I should just start erasing old stuff. I bet no one would notice.

So we have concluded that UPS, Tape backup, etc are all Good! But I can't afford them...

So back to the subject Anyone have motherboard recommendations?!?! :evil:

 

[mechBgon]

Tyan Thunder K7X Pro with Corsair R-ECC PC2100 1Gb module(s) from Monarchcomputer.com Dual-channel Ultra320 SCSI optional. I believe that's the mobo these forums are running on, btw.

 

[mechBgon]

You might also check out Appro.com, they keep sending me promos for their dual-Opteron (Sledgehammer) server... $2200 for a 1U server with 2Gb of RAM, two Opteron 240's, slim CD-ROM drive and one IDE hard drive to get started with.

 

[benjamit]

"Nothing's going anywhere faster than 12.5 megabytes per second on a 100Mbit network connection."

why is this so? why so low?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: DEATH
"Nothing's going anywhere faster than 12.5 megabytes per second on a 100Mbit network connection."

why is this so? why so low?

100Mb / 8 bits / byte =12.5MB

 

[mechBgon]

edit: yeah, what he said ^

 

[Scitex]

Intel Pro/1000MT NICs - All mac office. Intel doesn't make Mac drivers.

If they're G4 Macs, they should already be equipped with Gigabit ethernet from the factory......

 

[misle]

They are.

Any one have an opinion or experience with this motherboard?

INTEL Motherboard for Dual Intel Xeon Processors, Model# SE7505VB2
Specifications:
Supported CPU: Dual Intel Xeon processors with 512KB L2 cache using the 604-pin FCPGA
Chipset:Intel E7505
FSB:533/400 MHz
RAM:4X ECC DDR266 SDRAM Max 8GB
IDE:2x IDE Ports, ATA-100 up to 4 devices
Slots:Three independent PCI buses on five slots: two PCI-X 64-bit/100MHz, one PCI 64-bit/66MHz, two PCI 32-bit/33MHz AGP connector supporting 1.5V AGP 8X Pro50 cards
Ports:2xPS2,2xCOM,1xLPT,2xLAN
Onboard Video: ATI Rage XL 8MB
Onboard LAN:Intel 82540EM 10/100/1000
Onboard SATA: Silicon Image 3112A

 

[MercenaryForHire]

I still don't know why you're pushing the Xeon here. If all this machine is doing is fileserving and a little light web work, you won't even scrape the surface of a single HT Xeon, let alone a pair.

Spend your money elsewhere - like on a UPS and tape backup. No server should be without either.

- M4H

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I still don't know why you're pushing the Xeon here. If all this machine is doing is fileserving and a little light web work, you won't even scrape the surface of a single HT Xeon, let alone a pair.

Spend your money elsewhere - like on a UPS and tape backup. No server should be without either.

- M4H

^^^^^

fileservers != speed demons.

save money and get a XP, or P4, and a cheaper mobo, then get a tape back-up. right there is where you could save the money.

 

[misle]

You know, I didn't even think about using a different Chip. I'm use AMD at home all the time, but when I think about servers, I just think XEON! I was planning on only using one Xeon on that board (I think it can do that, haven't checked yet).

I'm kind of leary of the new Opteron, not of the actual chip, but of the motherboards. I like for them to be out for a while and make sure they are good. I haven't read Anand's review of the Opteron yet, but it's on my to do list.

Can you fill me in on AMD's offering for Servers?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: misle
You know, I didn't even think about using a different Chip. I'm use AMD at home all the time, but when I think about servers, I just think XEON! I was planning on only using one Xeon on that board (I think it can do that, haven't checked yet).

I'm kind of leary of the new Opteron, not of the actual chip, but of the motherboards. I like for them to be out for a while and make sure they are good. I haven't read Anand's review of the Opteron yet, but it's on my to do list.

Can you fill me in on AMD's offering for Servers?

Xeons are good processors, but super overkill for this. If you must go dual, pick up an AMD MPX chipset board (like the TigerMPX) and a couple of AMD MP processors. Get 1600+s or something fairly inexpensive.

You need to get a tape backup and UPS. You'll be a hero if the stuff hits the fan.